Almost 2 months on androgel! Results!

[bruary17]

Well guys, my doc prescribed me androgel 1.62 due to my low T....two pumps a day for the first month...I noticed a better feeling of well being, more energy/drive, bigger pumps in the gym and libido has been up. After 1 month on he Had my bloods taken...said one was up around the normal range but the other still low....i told him i was feeling fantastic on it and loved it so he said since im feeling so good...keep cruising at 2 pumps a day on my second prescription pump bottle.

Now I'm a huge weightlifter...it's my passion....5....6 days a week I'm in there hitting it hard from all the angles...really training like a pro bodybuilder...diet is sound.....now here's the good part...I went against his orders and decided to double my dose and take 4 pumps a day...I'm almost done with the bottle now and holy sh$t....pumps are amazing, strength is up...libido....way up. Got dudes coming up to me telling me I got BIG. I feel amazing, big alpha-male feeling and I seem to be growing like a weed. Still producing natty test I believe since my testicles are still big and plump and my ejaculation is the same....no testicular atrophy.

Here's my question; since I doubled the dose I only have enough for 15 days....what can I do for the last 15 days of the month to keep my T high? And what would be the equivalent of my 4 pumps a day compared to say....test e weekly injections? I'm interested to find out my T levels at next monthly test and will keep whoever cares updated. Thanks in advance!

[Metalject]

Glad to hear it's working well for you - transdermals are very hit and miss but work well for some. The real test will be if it continually works well for you long term.

And not to be a party pooper but still producing what natural testosterone you were prior to TRT, this would be physically impossible.

What can you do for 15 days now that you're out of testosterone for the next 15 days? The only way you'll keep your levels up is with some form of testosterone. If you tell your doctor you may likely lose your prescription so I'd advise against that - best way to piss your doctor off is to increase your dose without telling him. Anyway, find it on your own or wait it out are your only options.

Lastly, test-e injection equivalent - transdermal creams yield about 10% at best, so for every 100mg applied assume approximately 10mg of usable testosterone. Conversely, 100mg of test-e will yield approximately 65mg of usable testosterone. All of that said, despite the math, levels may not respond identically even with the same amounts of usable injectable vs. transdermal.

[Baxter35]

Without any other source of test, I'd lean toward 1 pump a day for the 15 days being your best bet at keeping levels stable, although lower than you want. I know its tempting, but once you get past this I'd say stop messing with your trt. Follow your script as prescribed and stick with it. Down the road, if you want to cycle once your trt is squared away that's up to you. Glad to hear trt is working for you though!

[2Sox]

Metal and Baxter gave some sound advice.

One pump a day is the only way to keep feeling relatively okay. You'll have to put the Superman suit away for a couple of weeks. When you go for your next blood work, you will come in very low, and if you're not going to tell your doctor what you did, your numbers will reflect that and your doctor will make certain assumptions and probably increase your dose. It's then your call; tell him the truth about what you did and how you felt, or not tell him.

But the blood he takes the next month will show your true numbers on your 4 pumps (if he writes for this).

Androgel knocked my socks off when I began applying it. After a few months, I had to increase to 3 and 4 pumps a day to get the same feeling. 4 pumps made me feel much too horny so I usually kept to 3 pumps. If not for the crazy co-pay - $175/ month - I would have continued. Now on T Cyp.

[bruary17]

Thanks for the info, all! I'm going to talk to doc about switching to injections since I don't want my gf to get 2nd hand exposure and turn her into Burt Reynolds. I'm 35 btw....should have mentioned that....I also do want children someday...sooner then later....so I'd like to know what the risks/complications are involving trt. My doc sort of blindly gave me the script without all this info....he referred me to a urologist then an Endo to further my situation...guess I'll ask them. Thanks again!

[Times Roman]

Well guys, my doc prescribed me androgel 1.62 due to my low T....two pumps a day for the first month...I noticed a better feeling of well being, more energy/drive, bigger pumps in the gym and libido has been up. After 1 month on he Had my bloods taken...said one was up around the normal range but the other still low....i told him i was feeling fantastic on it and loved it so he said since im feeling so good...keep cruising at 2 pumps a day on my second prescription pump bottle.

Now I'm a huge weightlifter...it's my passion....5....6 days a week I'm in there hitting it hard from all the angles...really training like a pro bodybuilder...diet is sound.....now here's the good part...I went against his orders and decided to double my dose and take 4 pumps a day...I'm almost done with the bottle now and holy sh$t....pumps are amazing, strength is up...libido....way up. Got dudes coming up to me telling me I got BIG. I feel amazing, big alpha-male feeling and I seem to be growing like a weed. Still producing natty test I believe since my testicles are still big and plump and my ejaculation is the same....no testicular atrophy.

Here's my question; since I doubled the dose I only have enough for 15 days....what can I do for the last 15 days of the month to keep my T high? And what would be the equivalent of my 4 pumps a day compared to say....test e weekly injections? I'm interested to find out my T levels at next monthly test and will keep whoever cares updated. Thanks in advance!

if you are taking testosterone, then you are either partially or fully shut down. no question about it

[lovbyts]

Buddy of mine is on 6 pumps a day just to reach total test 550 so it's not unheard of. If he sees your levels are still low he will have you either try a couple more pumps or start you on injections.

[Bodacious]

Androgel has also really helped me out. At just two pumps a day. Big day and night difference in the way I feel and rest at night and just all around feel. So far so good.

Hope it to works out for ya.

[Bodacious]

if you are taking testosterone, then you are either partially or fully shut down. no question about it

Hey TR I thought if you was taking testosterone no matter what it was, that your natty test was shut down??Fully shut down??

[bruary17]

So the odds of me having kids while I'm on trt are pretty slim, right? Even though my testes are still big and full and I'm still ejaculating the same amount as before trt?

[lovbyts]

Hey TR I thought if you was taking testosterone no matter what it was, that your natty test was shut down??Fully shut down??

Not if you are taking less than what your body would naturally produce I believe. Once you reach that level your body stops.

So the odds of me having kids while I'm on trt are pretty slim, right? Even though my testes are still big and full and I'm still ejaculating the same amount as before trt?

Tell that to all the guys who have kids while on TRT. lol If you are taking test only it does lower your sperm count but all it takes is one little swimmer to make it to it's target.

Volume has nothing to do with fertility.

[Metalject]

Tell it to all the pro bodybuilders who have 4, 5 and even 6 kids. If testosterone is such a great birth control, it's doing a terrible job in pro bodybuilding.

[lovbyts]

Tell it to all the pro bodybuilders who have 4, 5 and even 6 kids. If testosterone is such a great birth control, it's doing a terrible job in pro bodybuilding.

Thats why I have always said the best form of birth control is, for her to swallow.

[bruary17]

Quick update for anyone interested, today is the second day I've been w/out androgel....felt awesome in the gym..did back and bi's and had huge pumps and excellent energy/clarity....I feel like my T levels are still elevated. I get prescription refill on oct 11...in which case I will try a new method to make the bottle last longer.....4 pumps one day....2 pumps the next....and repeat. I'm thinking once trt is stopped cold turkey...as I had to....you levels gradually taper....hopefully I can sustain them at a elevated state till
I get my script refill.

I see the urologist soon...then the endo...going to ask for 200mg shots of test a week....see what the ****er thinks about that. I follow a guy on youtube "noknow". He's on that dose of trt and talks about it in-depth. Hope
All is well with everyone and thank you all for the feed back!

[2Sox]

^^^200mg per week? It's good not to forget that what's good for one is not necessarily good for another. If you've been here long enough you know that when T dose goes up, what may follow are other issues - elevated E2, hematocrit, RBC. You'll always get the same advice from the knowledgeable people here: Get to a good place and then stay there. You wanna be Superman? You may have to pay a price.

[kelkel]

Quick update for anyone interested, today is the second day I've been w/out androgel....felt awesome in the gym..did back and bi's and had huge pumps and excellent energy/clarity....I feel like my T levels are still elevated. I get prescription refill on oct 11...in which case I will try a new method to make the bottle last longer.....4 pumps one day....2 pumps the next....and repeat. I'm thinking once trt is stopped cold turkey...as I had to....you levels gradually taper....hopefully I can sustain them at a elevated state till
I get my script refill.

I see the urologist soon...then the endo...going to ask for 200mg shots of test a week....see what the ****er thinks about that. I follow a guy on youtube "noknow". He's on that dose of trt and talks about it in-depth. Hope
All is well with everyone and thank you all for the feed back!

You need to get serious about your TRT and settle in to a protocol where you're healthy and BW backs that up. Then if you want to cycle have at it. Trying to manipulate things the way you are is really not going to work. Especially with gels as they're formulated to more closely mimic the diurnal nature of testosterone more so than other methods. Your body will respond better to regularity with gels.

If you feel the need simply add some moisturizer about an hour later to the same area you applied your agel. It will enhance absorption by about 17% or so from memory.

[bruary17]

I remember guys talking about a particular cream that really increases the absorption rate - cant remember the name of it though.

Anyway...thanks for the tip...I'll prob settle in soon on injections since that's my goal....once I get squared away with the endo.

[bruary17]

My levels are still low, you see.....that's why I increased the dose myself....and my pumps and size and general feeling of well being has sky rocketed.....even with low-range levels...so I figure if I get up around high-range levels....I'll still be healthy and have even better progress...

You need to get serious about your TRT and settle in to a protocol where you're healthy and BW backs that up. Then if you want to cycle have at it. Trying to manipulate things the way you are is really not going to work. Especially with gels as they're formulated to more closely mimic the diurnal nature of testosterone more so than other methods. Your body will respond better to regularity with gels.

If you feel the need simply add some moisturizer about an hour later to the same area you applied your agel. It will enhance absorption by about 17% or so from memory.

[Times Roman]

Not if you are taking less than what your body would naturally produce I believe. Once you reach that level your body stops.



Tell that to all the guys who have kids while on TRT. lol If you are taking test only it does lower your sperm count but all it takes is one little swimmer to make it to it's target.

Volume has nothing to do with fertility.

That was my response, but now I must be crazy since my response seems to be lost in cyber space?

[Rusty11]

Sorry, but stop going against your Drs. rx. As Metalject said, it'll piss him off. And, if he finds out and releases you as a pt? What then?. I'd either stick to his rx and talk to him about an increase or find another dr. Good luck.

[OingoBoingo]

I see the urologist soon...then the endo...going to ask for 200mg shots of test a week....see what the ****er thinks about that. I follow a guy on youtube "noknow". He's on that dose of trt and talks about it in-depth.

If *I* were your doctor, I'd be thinking it's time for you to find a new one!

Just because some guy on the Internet takes a certain dose doesn't mean it's a sane starting dose.

Do a little research and find out what experts like Dr. Crisler or Dr. Gordon start their patients at. You might be surprised.

[OingoBoingo]

My levels are still low, you see.....that's why I increased the dose myself....and my pumps and size and general feeling of well being has sky rocketed.....even with low-range levels...so I figure if I get up around high-range levels....I'll still be healthy and have even better progress...

Do you have the labs to show us?

[bruary17]

Do you have the labs to show us?

I had two labs taken. The initial BW that I requested when I suspected I had low T....then the second one a week later.....as per Doctors request to confirm the low T. Then the BW that was taken a month in....I'll get them all today and post them.

[bruary17]

Do you have the labs to show us?

Sorry for the delay. Life happened. Anyway, my labs are as follows:

June 26th (when I first requested my Test levels be checked)
456
Free 7.5

July 15 (dr. Wanted second labs to be done to confirm low T)
325
Free 5.2

Sept 10 (after one month of androgel 1.62, two pumps daily)
451
7.6

Keep in mind im 35, in great shape, 6ft tall 185. Been liftingnsince i was 18. As you can see my numbers still kinda suck. I am feeling much better though and pumps in the gym have been great....but that just makes me wonder how much of it it a placebo effect. It crazy how manipulative your mind can be.

Anyway I'm back to two pumps a day, as you guys recommended to not **** with the androgel outside your doctors orders. You're right and I stopped. But I will be requesting shots when I see the urologist at the end of the month and I will tell him that I want to be at the very high end of normal test levels. Hopfully I can get him to understand how important this is to me and he'll throw me a bone.

[PistolPete33]

As much as we don't like the topical stuff in a lot of ways it's great. If the money is being pumped into TRT then we will have other options for things as time goes by. This can be great for us as we age. Right now we don't mind injecting twice per week but as we age it will really suck. Knowing there are other options is awesome.

[bruary17]

As much as we don't like the topical stuff in a lot of ways it's great. If the money is being pumped into TRT then we will have other options for things as time goes by. This can be great for us as we age. Right now we don't mind injecting twice per week but as we age it will really suck. Knowing there are other options is awesome.

Beg to differ brother, androgel is a pain in the butt for me. I have to constantly worry about changing my sheets so my gf doesn't get second hand exposure. And my mom has a 2 yr old little foster daughter that I help her with and I'm constantly paranoid when she hugs me, that she's getting it on her.

I mean, putting it on is no hassle and it dries quick but all the other worries sometimes get to me. Much rather do the shot....at least right now and I have no experience with it, so I might even prefer the gel when all is said and done...we'll see I guess.

[bruary17]

Forgot to mention, I am applying moisturizer about an hour after application of the androgel. Heard from a few sources it may increase absorption rate up to 17%....think someone mentioned that above as well.

[OingoBoingo]

Anyway I'm back to two pumps a day, as you guys recommended to not **** with the androgel outside your doctors orders. You're right and I stopped. But I will be requesting shots when I see the urologist at the end of the month and I will tell him that I want to be at the very high end of normal test levels. Hopfully I can get him to understand how important this is to me and he'll throw me a bone.

Am not so sure it's a good idea to walk in and tell your doctor you "want to be at the very high end of normal test levels" for two very good reasons;

The first is let your doctor feel important. Ask him what numbers he's shooting for. He may say he treats symptoms not numbers, but if you do some research, you'll be able to make a case for a sensible target. When meeting with my doctor I was prepared to argue for the top quartile of range. But when asked, the doctor said top quintile. Sounded good to me! You don't want to spook your doctor, because if he thinks you are a little over-enthusiastic he may drop you.

Secondly, as one who is at the top of their range, I can tell you it's not so great, and I'm in the process of lowering my dose. Sure, it's fun in the gym, but I don't care for the acne, reduced sexual performance, and high E2 episodes. Thus I've lowered my dose, see no loss of performance in the gym, and sides are improving. I think upper quartile is a good starting target, but each of us should try to find our own magic number that has us feeling our best.

Remember: It's about balance, not high numbers.

[2Sox]

^^^Sound like good advice.

[bruary17]

Am not so sure it's a good idea to walk in and tell your doctor you "want to be at the very high end of normal test levels" for two very good reasons;

The first is let your doctor feel important. Ask him what numbers he's shooting for. He may say he treats symptoms not numbers, but if you do some research, you'll be able to make a case for a sensible target. When meeting with my doctor I was prepared to argue for the top quartile of range. But when asked, the doctor said top quintile. Sounded good to me! You don't want to spook your doctor, because if he thinks you are a little over-enthusiastic he may drop you.

Secondly, as one who is at the top of their range, I can tell you it's not so great, and I'm in the process of lowering my dose. Sure, it's fun in the gym, but I don't care for the acne, reduced sexual performance, and high E2 episodes. Thus I've lowered my dose, see no loss of performance in the gym, and sides are improving. I think upper quartile is a good starting target, but each of us should try to find our own magic number that has us feeling our best.

Remember: It's about balance, not high numbers.

You're really making sense, brother. Thank you. My sex drive is is def higher then normal. I can throw down with the gf 3 times a day. At 35, I still often wake up with an erection....all since starting the androgel.....I mean, they were good befor but a def boost has taken place....I always though high end test numbers would just make you that much more superman in the libido department. Oh well. I love the way I'm feeling and I'm going to take the approach as you recommended. Thanks again all!

[nuttyproffsser]

Forgot to mention, I am applying moisturizer about an hour after application of the androgel. Heard from a few sources it may increase absorption rate up to 17%....think someone mentioned that above as well.

i hear in the inner thighs is a great place to apply it the skin their is very thin also the testicles but it burns a bit when apply their...under the arms and shoulders u loose a lot of the product it dries quickly and stays on top of the skin and u see it turns white....injectables are more uncomfortable but is the mist efficient way to apply Test and if your DR. give the prescription your g2g.

[bruary17]

i hear in the inner thighs is a great place to apply it the skin their is very thin also the testicles but it burns a bit when apply their...under the arms and shoulders u loose a lot of the product it dries quickly and stays on top of the skin and u see it turns white....injectables are more uncomfortable but is the mist efficient way to apply Test and if your DR. give the prescription your g2g.

Inner thighs makes a lot of sense. I'm going to dig a little and see what I find. Thanks for the tip!

[Bodacious]

Thats where I have always put mine. My doc said they cant tell you to put it there. Because they only tested the gel on the chest and arms. Dont know if that right or not. I wake up rub some on there after I get going go all day and never worry about it.

[2Sox]

Thats where I have always put mine. My doc said they cant tell you to put it there. Because they only tested the gel on the chest and arms. Dont know if that right or not. I wake up rub some on there after I get going go all day and never worry about it.

Don't use your bare hands where there is the thickest skin on your body. It's wasted. Apply with nitrile or latex gloves. Then use rubbing alcohol on them to get the rest onto your body. Most bang for your buck.

[xcraider37]

Don't use your bare hands where there is the thickest skin on your body. It's wasted. Apply with nitrile or latex gloves. Then use rubbing alcohol on them to get the rest onto your body. Most bang for your buck.

OP, search you tube and see Dr. Crisler method to apply gels, he says to apply on the underneath of your forearms, I did this when I was on gels. Although I can't tell if if was better than any other application, but it does protect against wasting the product.

[bruary17]

OP, search you tube and see Dr. Crisler method to apply gels, he says to apply on the underneath of your forearms, I did this when I was on gels. Although I can't tell if if was better than any other application, but it does protect against wasting the product.

I apply it to my inner thighs now. And when I'm through, I wet my hands with water slightly, by doing this I can feel the lathery, unused portion of the androgel that dried. I then apply that to the sides and back of my thighs - I feel like this is the best method to not waste any bit of it. But thank you for the input!

[bruary17]

Ok friends, update!

Just got back from the urologist appointment. Long story short - he switched me to shots. I have to finish out my remainding androgel, once that's complete, I wait two weeks...or a week. Fill my prescrition, which I have in hand (depo - testosterone & syringe) bring it into him and he will show me how to do my first shot and if I so choose, I can do the shots by myself at home.

Every two weeks I will be getting 200MG/ML of Depo-Testosterone. He will check my bloods and see how I'm feeling and adjust accordingly after that.

What do you all think?! I am really excited!!!

[2Sox]

Ok friends, update!

Just got back from the urologist appointment. Long story short - he switched me to shots. I have to finish out my remainding androgel, once that's complete, I wait two weeks...or a week. Fill my prescrition, which I have in hand (depo - testosterone & syringe) bring it into him and he will show me how to do my first shot and if I so choose, I can do the shots by myself at home.

Every two weeks I will be getting 200MG/ML of Depo-Testosterone. He will check my bloods and see how I'm feeling and adjust accordingly after that.

What do you all think?! I am really excited!!!

Good news. And not so good news. Every two weeks is BAD news. Also to wait two weeks to start your T shots is ridiculous. By the beginning of the second day without a gel you'll start feeling pretty bad. That's why they are applied daily! To keep your levels up and even.

If you've been doing your homework and reading the discussions here, you ought to already know that shots should be given once a week - at a MINIMUM. If you've been paying attention to the protocols that many use here, you also know that many do SQ and much more often than that - with great results. I'd suggest you re-evaluate your treatment plan and adjust accordingly.

[bruary17]

Good news. And not so good news. Every two weeks is BAD news. Also to wait two weeks to start your T shots is ridiculous. By the beginning of the second day without a gel you'll start feeling pretty bad. That's why they are applied daily! To keep your levels up and even.

If you've been doing your homework and reading the discussions here, you ought to already know that shots should be given once a week - at a MINIMUM. If you've been paying attention to the protocols that many use here, you also know that many do SQ and much more often than that - with great results. I'd suggest you re-evaluate your treatment plan and adjust accordingly.

I doubled my dose on the androgel w/out my Doctor Knowing, so what would have lasted me one month lasted me 15 days...I had to go the remaining 15 days with nothing...and honestly, I felt fine. No crash, no nothing. Pumps were still good in the gym and energy was up, which led me to believe...perhaps my levels slowly tapered off...and I was able to reinstate them once my script refilled.

As far as the bad news of bi-weekly test shots mimicking that of a roller coaster I found this interesting, found it on ************.com;

Using a long acting ester testosterone (CYP and ENAN) does not mimic the normally functioning male body's circadian rhythm (daily rise and fall of testosterone). Testosterone, in a normally functioning body, does not explode up to high levels then gradually fall over a 1-2 week period as it does when injecting a testosterone such as CYP or ENAN. On the contrary, the body produces a small amount each day which is far below 200mg (It's around 10mg). That small amount is concentrated at the beginning of the day and then falls low by the end of the day. This process repeats itself every day and by the end of two weeks, a normally functioning body produces approximately 140mg of testosterone (appx. 70mg per week).

The use of long acting esters are in theory supposed to slowly release the testosterone over a two week period, but this is not quite what happens. To keep it simple, the delay of the esters actually allows large amounts of testosterone to build up--especially if you are taking 200mg every week as opposed to once every two weeks (biweekly) which is what the dose is supposed to be. (I'm simplifying here). Remember the "normally functioning" male produces only (appx.) 70mg per week (=140mg per two weeks). The dose doctors are recommended to perscribe is 200mg every 2 weeks (biweekly), but they tend to give 200mg every week.

So, it is fallacious reasoning to compare the TOTAL amount of testosterone produced in daily spurts in a normally functioning body over a 2 week period to the same amount of testosterone injected in one shot at the beginning of a week and reshot every week (before the previous week's dose is used up). The latter case (injections once per week) results in an overlap and build up of dose which causes the levels of testosterone to be HIGHER than normal. (Remember the shots should actually be 200mg every TWO weeks--not every week). These excess levels of testosterone are sufficient to build lean body mass faster than the "normally functioning" male.

In other words: addding up what the average male body produces per week then comparing that to the amount that is shot every week is like comparing apples to oranges. There is a whole diferent set of advantageous reactions happening in the body when it is given a full
2-week load (200mg) at the beginning of a week as opposed to getting naturally occuring, small, daily spurts of appx 10mg over the same period of time (2 weeks).

This is why a low dose cycle can yeild REASONABLE gains. Understand, I'm not talking mega-huge-fast gains. I'm talking noticably-faster-than-normal gains, which when coupled with a strict diet, sufficient rest and an excellent bodybuilding work ethic, can yeild large, solid gains (especially early in a person's cycle experience).

[bruary17]

Good news. And not so good news. Every two weeks is BAD news. Also to wait two weeks to start your T shots is ridiculous. By the beginning of the second day without a gel you'll start feeling pretty bad. That's why they are applied daily! To keep your levels up and even.

If you've been doing your homework and reading the discussions here, you ought to already know that shots should be given once a week - at a MINIMUM. If you've been paying attention to the protocols that many use here, you also know that many do SQ and much more often than that - with great results. I'd suggest you re-evaluate your treatment plan and adjust accordingly.

I think you're right though, and I'd love to opt for 200mg per wk.....how to go about it is the question. And for long term; cold this really be healthy - 200mg weekly shots as replacement therapy?