test-e, dbol, deca?

[bigZ244]

20
6'0
170
7% bf
3 years training

Tired of being skinny and looking like the guy who always talks gym and looks like he never goes, train 5-6 times a week, tried changing diet at least 6 times all resulting in no gains even tried eating up to 8000 calories a day for 4 weeks and nothing. Did a fair bit of research and found that test-e, dbol and deca come up the most for bulking gear, not sure about dosages though i would like some recommendations or testimonials. I would like to do a 8 week cycle with a pct that will maximize gains, hopefully I can keep up to 30 pounds considering this my first cycle.

Please tell me what I should change or add or what not. Thanks

[Matt]

Could you please post your diet as im very interested to see what it consists of???

[bigZ244]

I eat about 150g fat 400g carbs 300g protien, comes from udos oil chicken pasta and shakes

[Gaspari1255]

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

[RoadToRecovery]

1.) you're too small for gear

Well this is a first. Why is he "too small"?

2.) your diet is not on point

How do you know?

3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.

Why is that?

4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.

Why?

5.) you're too young for gear

Hes 20, how does that make him too young?

[Gaspari1255]

Well this is a first. Why is he "too small"?

How do you know?


Why is that?


Why?



Hes 20, how does that make him too young?

it has been PROVEN that taken AAS before the age of 21 is a bad idea because of the natural potenital he has of gaining for his age with proper diet. In his first post, he explained how he attempted eating 8000 calories for 4 weeks. Either, he was NOT eating quality foods or he was NOT eating 8000 calories. The macros he posted do not equal any where close to 8000. Why do I know this? Because, I, myself have to eat pretty damn close to 8000 calories while I am bulking to make gains. Ohhh okay lets argue the cycle now----there is no reason why deca should be included in a first cycle. Test E or C at 500mg a week for 10 or 12 weeks will make just about anyone BLOW UP. Test usually doesnt kick in fully till week 5, so running it for 8 weeks only gives him just about 3 weeks to make gains, which is not intelligent. And by "he's too small", with those stats and especially height, he should be able to put on a good 15lbs with an immaculate diet and balls to the wall training in the gym.....

To the op- sorry if I cam off a bit harsh, I am just being very realisitc.

To RTR- Please stop defending him when 99% of the people on this forum are going to agree with me that he should delay his first cycle for another year or two.

[gbrice75]

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

I agree with all points except the first; the notion that you 'have' to have X amount of muscle prior to using AAS is asinine IMO. Sure, it's nice to see people take it as far as they can naturally before considering AAS, but I don't see that as being a requirement. Regarding the other points:

Clearly, the diet isn't on point, especially if you have taken in 8000 calories/day and didn't gain (quality?) weight. I saw what you were eating - all that cream... what do you think that's going to do for you?

As a first time user, that is too advanced of a stack and just about everyone here will agree with that. At least drop the Deca.

8 weeks is too short for test e as mentioned earlier; for an 8 week cycle you'll want test with a faster ether.

Last point is the most important - you are simply too young to consider using AAS right now. You are not even developed 100% at this point - do yourself a favor and wait a few years. Honestly, you do not need AAS. You need to hightail it over to the diet section, post up your diet and let people tweak it for you and get you eating for gains. Post up your routine while you're at it.

[RoadToRecovery]

8 weeks is too short for test e as mentioned earlier; for an 8 week cycle you'll want test with a faster ether.

This I have to question gbrice - I dont have a rebuttal as to this being wrong or right - but what is your reasoning behind this? I have seen some articles dedicated to 8 week only cycles. I think Ronnie Rowland has an article on here about an 8 week cycle as well.

[Hard.On]

1.) you're too small for gear
2.) your diet is not on point
3.) Test/Deca/Dbol should be used for a second or third time user, not FIRST.
4.) 8 week cycle of test/deca is pointless..10-12 range makes more sense.
5.) you're too young for gear

****** instead of fighting with R2R this would have been easier and more informative for the op and those viewing.

1. You can get bigger with a better diet. No need for AAS
2. Your diet needs work because if it was as good as you claim it is then you would have gained more natural weight by now.
3. Test is a good first cycle to see how your body reacts. AAS is a marathon not a sprint.
4. Deca take long to kick in and your not going to get the full effect of it with only a 8 week cycle.
5. Read marcus sticky with endocrine cycle info, Im not retyping it


Instead of that, This whole thread has been wasted and funny enough the OP is still kicking around waiting for advice on what he should do.

[Gaspari1255]

I eat about 150g fat 400g carbs 300g protien, comes from udos oil chicken pasta and shakes

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

[RoadToRecovery]

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

He didnt say his diet was 8k kcal

[bigZ244]

That does NOT equade to 8k calories.

ok u really want to know what i ate to get up to 8k calories ok so i had 3 shakes a day with 6 whole eggs, 2 cups full fat cream and 1000 cals from weightgainer, i practically was panting by the end of the month just making the shake i was in such bad cardiac shape. that equalls 18 eggs 6 cups full fat cream and 3000 cals from weight gainer. 6 cups of fat cream and 18 whole eggs gets you up easily to 8k cals, now i odnt know about the quality of these foods but geuss what since when is bulking considered healthy?

[Gaspari1255]

ok u really want to know what i ate to get up to 8k calories ok so i had 3 shakes a day with 6 whole eggs, 2 cups full fat cream and 1000 cals from weightgainer, i practically was panting by the end of the month just making the shake i was in such bad cardiac shape. that equalls 18 eggs 6 cups full fat cream and 3000 cals from weight gainer. 6 cups of fat cream and 18 whole eggs gets you up easily to 8k cals, now i odnt know about the quality of these foods but geuss what since when is bulking considered healthy?

The only time you should have a shake is PWO (whey.) And possibly a casein one before bed. The others serve no purpose. The problem here is that the majority of your diet is coming from powders.

[Knockout_Power]

IMO, stay away from running all 3 for your first run, you need to see how your body reacts. Never do something out of desperation or you will make mistake... my advice would be to just run a simple test cycle @ 4-500/wk and you will like your results. AT MOST, add dbol @ 25mg/day for the first 4 weeks but have liver support like liv52 or milk thistle.

Also, 8 weeks will not do much with what you have proposed unless you want to pin frequently and use Prop. which again, is not recommended for a first cycle as you also have to observe your tolerance for injecting...

Test E or C at the above dose for minimum of 10 weeks and have PCT in place.

This is only if you INSIST on doing this so early in life, you SHOULD wait a couple more years as you dont understand what this "could" do to you in the long run... yes you dont want to be the small kid, but imagine what your life will be like when your the buff kid that chicks want but you did your cycling improperly so you cant even get your d i c k up to make use of these women? A crude way to put it, but reality can be shite sometimes.

[bigZ244]

btw roadtorecovery your my hero haha with the quote things haha

[RoadToRecovery]

btw roadtorecovery your my hero haha with the quote things haha

Your not out of the woods yet. I am simply preventing people from parroting information they know nothing about. Needless to say, you need to head over to the diet section and post your diet. If you are experiencing a plateau, you need to change everything including your workouts.

[bigZ244]

Your not out of the woods yet. I am simply preventing people from parroting information they know nothing about. Needless to say, you need to head over to the diet section and post your diet. If you are experiencing a plateau, you need to change everything including your workouts.

yeah i have changed up my diet and i practically change it every month, and i work out 5-6 times a week and i change the routines and everything every week so i never do the same things 2 weeks in a row. but seeing that you are somewhat of a professional i would like professional advice on my dosages, what would you recomend i do, cause i dont want my dealer to od me or give me so little it doesnt do anything

[Knockout_Power]

weightgainers and protein shakes? That would answer why your calories are not equalling much muscle gains. Eat real food, 2 shakes per day max.

[bigZ244]

weightgainers and protein shakes? That would answer why your calories are not equalling much muscle gains. Eat real food, 2 shakes per day max.

yeah i know that was a time when i was despeately trying to gain weight i drink 2 shakes now with oatmeal milk blueberries and sometimes a little powder

[RoadToRecovery]

I wouldnt recommend anything until I saw your complete fitness schedule.

[bigZ244]

i mainly focus on the compound movements like bench squat and deadlifts and i threw some other things in there i would like, not sure about the proper name for some exersizes but hopefully you can make sense of it

Chest/Triceps/abs - Day 1
-DB bench press
-Incline DB bench press
-Decline DB bench press
-DB flat flyes

-Close grip skull crushers
-Close grip bench press
-Single arm reverse-grip cable pressdowns

Legs/shoulders - Day 1
-Squats
-leg ext
-Calf raises

-Military shoulder press
-DB shoulder press
-Front raises

Back/Biceps/Abs - Day 1
-Deadlift
-Widegrip Pulldown
-Close grip pulldown
-Shrugs

-DB curls
-Hummer curls
-single arm cable curls

Day 4 is a rest day

and i would alternate with this every week

Chest/Triceps/abs - Day 2
-BB bench press
-Incline BB Bench press
-Decline BB bench press
-DB incline flyes

-Shoulder width grip bar cable pressdown
-reverse-grip cambered bar cable pressdown
-DB skull crushers

Legs/shoulders - Day 2
-Squat
-Leg curl
-Calf raises

-Arnold press
-Upright rows
-Lateral raises

Back/Biceps/Abs - Day 2
-Sumo deadlift
-Barbell bent over row
-Seated row
-Shrugs

-BB curls
-Preacher curls
-Cable curls

Day 4 is a rest day

[RoadToRecovery]

I mean everything. Diet/supp schedule, workout regimen, sleep schedule etc.

And Im assuming thats a 3 day split... not a 1 day split lol.

[bigZ244]

yeah 3 technically 4 cause i need the rest no matter what

for real food i eat
-twice a day 1.5 cups pasta and 1/2 chicken breast
-twice a day shakes that consists of 1 cup oatmeal, 1 cup berries, 2 cups milk, sometimes i add a banana, and/or 2 tbsp. peanut butter
-6 tbsp udos oil 2 moring 2 lunch 2 dinner

supplements
-three times daily i drink 40g of protien
-i currently just started a creatine cycle for my second time

so i drink my shake in the morning before workout then after workout i drink 40g protien then eat my chicken for lunch, drink another shake when i get home this time with 40g protien powder, eat some more chicken couple hours later, and right before bed i drink 40g protien

i typically go to bed at 9-10 and wake up at 6-7 to go to gym

dont really know what else to say other than that i train until the lactic acid starts to really kick in

[bigZ244]

yeah bro i read that thing too haha, i was just gonna say

[RoadToRecovery]

Ronnies article is dedicated to hypertrophy. And his example that he uses for his 8 week cycle is actually Test E.

When high amounts of androgenic anabolics steroids such as testosterone enanthate are introduced into the body, maximum receptor site stimualtion occurs during the first 3-8 weeks. After having been on test for around 8 weeks your libido will begin to level out and eventually decline as will your muscle growth as these receptor sites adjust to the exogenous testosterone. It's during this 3-8 week period of enhanced libido that maximum muscle growth occurs! Some of you will make the majority of your gains during weeks 3-6 while reloading others will gain more during week 5-8. Gains are finalized during the deload (weeks 8-10 of anabolic cycle). I do believe in set time frames in regards to reducing training volume and anabolic dosages. A 2 week deload following an 8 week reload is very important because it makes you stronger and packs on some additional muscle due to a rebound effect. Long acting esters will still present during a deload. In addition, the reduction in protein actually helps the body store more protein-hence more muscle mass!

I will say from my own expertise with natural hypertrophy - I wouldnt recommend a hypertrophy mesocycle beyond 8 weeks. 6 weeks is actually where I recommend most people.

You gotta give the article a full read to truly see the idea behind his reload/deload blast routine.

[bigZ244]

what do you mean? out of the 300 i only get about 60 from powder? i think thats decent

[Gaspari1255]

I'm not sure I understand your question. You stated that you drink "3 shakes a day + weightgainers." I am just advising you to only have one 50-60g Whey shake PWO, and to cut out all of the other shakes/weight gainers. You won't get much out of them anway. If you have to, drink a 50g Casein shake right before bed, but you would be better off getting the protein from some Cottage Cheese/All Natty PB before bed.

[bigZ244]

no i said that in my 8000 cal diet i was drinknig 3 shakes and day with weightgainer, and i have 2 shakes with about 50g protien without the powder, and sometimes i add some powder, but understadn what ur saying i know supplements are to help supplement what you are already eating

[RoadToRecovery]

Since you feel that 8 week cycles are pointless - you care to reply to this thread and commit to your stance?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=402776

[bigZ244]

haha, what about 10 weeks?

[Gaspari1255]

I didn't read the whole article either:


From what I gathered

1.) You should be training slingshot (The OP did not specify this)
2.) If you're taking this approach you are practically gonna be on and off 365 days a years, which is forcing me to believe that this type of cycling is for advanced BBers.
3.) Where Does RR state that this form of using AAS is good for first time users
4.) I could be wrong, but as the above guy said, you're not supposed to PCT for a while and just cruise on "x" amount of test?


From my personal expierence, the best parts of my cycle (in terms of mass and strength) were in the last two weeks of 10-12 week cycle. You do not know how my or the OPs body is going to react to compounds, so you suggesting 8 weeks of Test for his first cycle is risky; OP may be very displeased. But you're never going to admit your wrong, so it doesn't even matter.

[RoadToRecovery]

I didn't read the whole article either:


From what I gathered

1.) You should be training slingshot (The OP did not specify this)
2.) If you're taking this approach you are practically gonna be on and off 365 days a years, which is forcing me to believe that this type of cycling is for advanced BBers.
3.) Where Does RR state that this form of using AAS is good for first time users
4.) I could be wrong, but as the above guy said, you're not supposed to PCT for a while and just cruise on "x" amount of test?


From my personal expierence, the best parts of my cycle (in terms of mass and strength) were in the last two weeks of 10-12 week cycle. You do not know how my or the OPs body is going to react to compounds, so you suggesting 8 weeks of Test for his first cycle is risky; OP may be very displeased. But you're never going to admit your wrong, so it doesn't even matter.

****** - you are a block head.
I didnt give any advice - I am questioning YOURS.

lmfao how can I be wrong? I never gave advice.

[bigZ244]

roadtorecovery, so now that i have posted everything, what would you recomend me to take for a first cycle that will get me "huge"? i dont even know what i want anymore haha so much drama hahaha also to let ****** know i also want to hear what you think

also very important i am not interested in pursuing a career in bodybuilding i just want to look good for the ladies and give myself a better image, therfore i am not planning on taking more than maybe one "x" weeks cycle per year

[Gaspari1255]

roadtorecovery, so now that i have posted everything, what would you recomend me to take for a first cycle that will get me "huge"? i dont even know what i want anymore haha so much drama hahaha

Whatever you do, stick to one compound for your first cycle (Test). I don't care if you run it for 12 weeks, 10 weeks, 8 weeks, or 3 days. Just stick to Test. Deca is NOT for a first time user.

[bigZ244]

ok now we are getting somewhere, now i need to see what roadtorecovery thinks

[bigZ244]

oh shit also, what kind of test and what should my cycle look like?

[bigZ244]

yo roadtorecovery what do you suggest i take??? this is my first cycle and maybe my last i will see how it goes.

[RoadToRecovery]

yo roadtorecovery what do you suggest i take??? this is my first cycle and maybe my last i will see how it goes.

Like I said - I wouldnt suggest anything until I saw your entire regimen. But I will tell you that creatine is a good start.

[bigZ244]

Like I said - I wouldnt suggest anything until I saw your entire regimen. But I will tell you that creatine is a good start.

WTF do u mean? I told u my diet and workout and stats what else do you need???

[Hard.On]

WTF do u mean? I told u my diet and workout and stats what else do you need???

Heres a stack for you.

Use Food as a base (try to stay away from too much fast food and you shouldn't OD)

Stack it with Creatine and Amino Acids/fish oil/flaxseed oil/ Vitamin C/ Multi vitamin