AI or not?

[liv2thafullest]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

[Getsomehate]

Only way to know is try and see , i am on 750mg test/week as base as well and i barely used it at 0.25mg (adex).

[charger69]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

I do not use an AI. Everyone is different though.
I have used 1.5g without an AI.
I would say just watch your water retention however I think you will be fine.


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[The Deadlifting Dog]

I personally don't use AI anymore but the most test I take is 600mg/week.

It depends on your goals....
You will hold more water without the AI... that can be a good thing.
But getting bloated and gyno can be a bad thing.

If this is your first run I would normally just recommend 500mg and no AI and see how it goes.
You can have AI on hand if needed.

FYI: You are taking 280mg of test from Androgel but aren't actually absorbing 280mg.

[liv2thafullest]

So Andro gel is no good then? Is there a better TRT I should ask my doctor about? I was on the patches and those were way worse even!

[liv2thafullest]

Ok so I'm going yo start without it then. I am not sensitive to gyno at all, have never even had any issues with it. I am lean by nature and never had any issues with anything related to high estrogen.

I did buy some, at a higher price than I would have liked, I guess ill keep it on hand for now.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ok so I'm going yo start without it then. I am not sensitive to gyno at all, have never even had any issues with it. I am lean by nature and never had any issues with anything related to high estrogen.

I did buy some, at a higher price than I would have liked, I guess ill keep it on hand for now.

If it’s TRT and physician prescribed, it’s hard to beat at home injections with a scripted 10 ML bottle (if you don’t have an aversion to needles).

I’d also advise you take at look at the TRT section on the forum as well.

I’m 45 and have been on TRT for 5 years, doing injections at home is a breeze coupled with twice yearly labs.

[Dash Bronson]

If it’s TRT and physician prescribed, it’s hard to beat at home injections with a scripted 10 ML bottle (if you don’t have an aversion to needles).

I’d also advise you take at look at the TRT section on the forum as well.

I’m 45 and have been on TRT for 5 years, doing injections at home is a breeze coupled with twice yearly labs.

Ill be turning 40 soon myself, run two businesses, and stay extremely active so its really important I have my test optimized. Saw the Dr. other day and my total T is 620 and Doc told me that I was very high for my age bracket and not to worry, he didn't understand the importance of free T, which is WAY low in my case... I was like a 4 free or something pretty low.

My point is you have been on TRT 5 years? and I'm considering TRT because I'm getting older... Is the biggest downside having to keep your needle/gear with you when traveling? I mean people with diabetes do that every day with no issue.

Is there any other side effects or negatives you've run into over the last 5 years? I'm weighing all options...

[The Deadlifting Dog]

So Andro gel is no good then? Is there a better TRT I should ask my doctor about? I was on the patches and those were way worse even!

I am not saying it is no good.
I am saying that you don't absorb all 280mgs so it isn't like you will be on 500+280=780mgs per week. (You are probably closer to 500+100=600mgs per week.)

I started out on Axiron. Worked great for me.
Transdermals more closely match your body's natural testosterone daily cycle.

However, they are way more expensive than injections.

[liv2thafullest]

I started out on the patch, but I work construction and it would always fall off when I sweat.
If you're saying I am only absorbing 100mg out of 280mg then to me thats no good. Thats not even 50%, that's worse than no good that's terrible.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Have never needed one and have never used one, up to 800 mgs a week. We are all different though. I’d have it on hand just in case but would start without it on board

[SampsonandDelilah]

Just a heads up too, seeing that you’re new to the boards (welcome by the way).

Age, goals, test/cycle history. How long have you been on TRT, are you “blasting” now?

That type of background info makes it easier for guys to respond by having a little more info based around that.

[liv2thafullest]

Ok thanks for the heads up and the welcome.

40 yrs old. 6'4 238lbs, ~15% bf. Experienced lifter all my life, NASM cert Fitness and Nutrition specialist, Personal trainer, etc.

Been on TRT for 6 months now, and goals are to lose 3-5% bf while keeping my muscle and strength. Maybe even gain some lean mass.

Current cycle I will be starting: 14 weeks. Test E 500mg/week, week 1-12. Anavar 40mg/ED week 6-14. I heard it's good to run the Var 2 weeks past stopping of the test.

Should I taper down the test at the end of my cycle, like 300mg, 200mg, 100mg for the last 3 weeks, or is that not necesary? Also im assuming since I'm on TRT no need for PCT?

Thank you

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ok thanks for the heads up and the welcome.

40 yrs old. 6'4 238lbs, ~15% bf. Experienced lifter all my life, NASM cert Fitness and Nutrition specialist, Personal trainer, etc.

Been on TRT for 6 months now, and goals are to lose 3-5% bf while keeping my muscle and strength. Maybe even gain some lean mass.

Current cycle I will be starting: 14 weeks. Test E 500mg/week, week 1-12. Anavar 40mg/ED week 6-14. I heard it's good to run the Var 2 weeks past stopping of the test.

Should I taper down the test at the end of my cycle, like 300mg, 200mg, 100mg for the last 3 weeks, or is that not necesary? Also im assuming since I'm on TRT no need for PCT?

Thank you

Well done...

No need for PCT or to taper, simply move back to your TRT dosage after your cycle ends. Make sure you don’t have any blood work planned with your doc for a while to be safe. I would talk to him/her about switching from a gel to pins...you can thank me later. A 10 ML bottle of Pfizer test can last you 3 months (dose dependent of course) for less that 65$.

I’m on 200 mgs per week and that keeps my total test around 1100, which is where I feel great. Free test usually sits around 24. Not sure what your dose equivalent would be with the gel, but if you’re open to switching, before you blast would be the time.

As far as the var, I wouldn’t worry about that 2 week window as you won’t need to worry about suppression since you’re not going to PCT and can resume your normal TRT dose after blasting.

Let me know if I missed anything and I’m sure others will jump in. That’s an easy enough cycle and I’m sure with the right diet, you’ll easily smash your goals.

I’d leave the AI out for now unless you’re holding water, get moon faces or start getting estrogen sides. No need to suppress it as it’s instrumental in growth.

Good luck brother and happy you’re here!

[liv2thafullest]

Thanks, great response! Answered all my questions thoroughly. I wish I hadn't spent the money on the ai, it wasn't cheap lol, but I guess its better to be safe than sorry, I have a feeling im not even going to need it.

Yeah I get bloods 2x year for my doc, just had last one in May, so next one not due for awhile, but thanks for the heads up. Everything is primed to go, super psyched. Gyms are finally open, thank God.

Again, thanks for the help and the welcoming. Looking forward to sticking around here for awhile.

One last question; I have some SARMS I ordered (Ostarine and Testolone), I've had them for awhile and was planning on using them when gyms re opened, but I decided to just go with gear. Would it be beneficial in any way to run them along with the gear, or maybe after the gear just to help maintain gains?

After reading more about SARMS I dont think they really do much, but I guess if they can help in any way I can use that, already spent the $ on them (unfortunately).

Thanks again

[SampsonandDelilah]

Thanks, great response! Answered all my questions thoroughly. I wish I hadn't spent the money on the ai, it wasn't cheap lol, but I guess its better to be safe than sorry, I have a feeling im not even going to need it.

Yeah I get bloods 2x year for my doc, just had last one in May, so next one not due for awhile, but thanks for the heads up. Everything is primed to go, super psyched. Gyms are finally open, thank God.

Again, thanks for the help and the welcoming. Looking forward to sticking around here for awhile.

One last question; I have some SARMS I ordered (Ostarine and Testolone), I've had them for awhile and was planning on using them when gyms re opened, but I decided to just go with gear. Would it be beneficial in any way to run them along with the gear, or maybe after the gear just to help maintain gains?

After reading more about SARMS I dont think they really do much, but I guess if they can help in any way I can use that, already spent the $ on them (unfortunately).

Thanks again

Happy you’re here...this place is great and will benefit from members like you.

I’m far from the SARMS expert and stick mostly to AAS outside of some MK-677.

This section should help and I’m sure others will chime in as well. Good luck, post updates on your goals!


https://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sel...rmation-forum/

[Test Monsterone]

I feel I need to take an AI or I get the moon face, even on just 400 mg/week. I'm taking .25 mg with every injection, so every third day. Before I started the AI, my hands were puffy and my face was puffy, and I Felt like crap. I'm not shredded by any means, so my body fat probably isn't helping. (more fat, more conversion to estrogen).

[SampsonandDelilah]

So hard to paint an AI with a broad brush. Estrogen sides are easy enough to detect I feel at least, of course blood work along the way helps, but not everyone can do it

[The Deadlifting Dog]

As far as SARMS go...
I've never done them but would rather just do the real deal.

As far as adding them in now... Being this is your first cycle, I don't recommend it.

I'd prefer you see how your body handles just the test.
Keep it simple.
If you run into problems you know it is from the test.

[charger69]

MK677 and SR9009 are my sarna of choice.


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[Ashop]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

I personally would need an AI or SERM on that amount of testosterone.

[SampsonandDelilah]

They do. Ask for the luer locks...They’ll
Probably offer you different sizes. Switching to a new pin each time is common

You will be just fine if you’re sticking to one pin.


Don’t overthink it. Buy those and see how it feels.

If you wanna switch, go with luer locks in the aforementioned sizes

[charger69]

Also, I think it’s cheaper online to order them.


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[Rainshaker]

I have personally been testing the natural route by using Grape Seed Extract, not to be confused with grapefruit seed extract, as a natural AI and so far I have had zero sides from 30-40mg Dbol ED and 500mg Test e per week. Pretty interesting studies on the stuff, I like the idea of it helping the estrogen without running the risk of crashing it too low.

[GearHeaded]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

answer is simple .. NO , don't run an AI . whats the point in running 780mg of test if you don't want the estrogen ?

if your estrogen sensitive , then set your cycle up differently . taking a bunch of test then having to run an AI is defeating the purpose.
90% of AAS out there don't even convert to estrogen in the first place.

if you can't run 800mg of test without an AI .. then simply drop the Test dosage down to 300mg and run 600mg of Primo and 40mg of Var a day or something along those lines.

AI's are garbage imo . cause more side effects then the AAS themselves .. just set your cycle up better and more efficiently rather then thinking you have to run an AI .


on a side note - like a lot of guys here have mentioned .. yes you can run boat loads of Test without an AI and the super high levels of estrogen can help you put on size and strength . but that is person dependent (I've ran 2000mg of test with 1000mg of Tren with no AI.. but I never run AI anyhow). But that is person dependent. again if your gyno prone or estrogen sensitive then you simply need to modify the cycle itself , not depend on a shitty AI

[Ashop]

answer is simple .. NO , don't run an AI . whats the point in running 780mg of test if you don't want the estrogen ?

if your estrogen sensitive , then set your cycle up differently . taking a bunch of test then having to run an AI is defeating the purpose.
90% of AAS out there don't even convert to estrogen in the first place.

if you can't run 800mg of test without an AI .. then simply drop the Test dosage down to 300mg and run 600mg of Primo and 40mg of Var a day or something along those lines.

AI's are garbage imo . cause more side effects then the AAS themselves .. just set your cycle up better and more efficiently rather then thinking you have to run an AI .


on a side note - like a lot of guys here have mentioned .. yes you can run boat loads of Test without an AI and the super high levels of estrogen can help you put on size and strength . but that is person dependent (I've ran 2000mg of test with 1000mg of Tren with no AI.. but I never run AI anyhow). But that is person dependent. again if your gyno prone or estrogen sensitive then you simply need to modify the cycle itself , not depend on a shitty AI

I know guys who get gyno on TRT dosages of TEST so an AI or SERM is necessary for some. If you use them right an AI can be used safely with no side effects. I feel as though I always look better when I use a small amount of an AI. People get carried away with the amounts they use and that's where you see problems.

[charger69]

I know guys who get gyno on TRT dosages of TEST so an AI or SERM is necessary for some. If you use them right an AI can be used safely with no side effects. I feel as though I always look better when I use a small amount of an AI. People get carried away with the amounts they use and that's where you see problems.

There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic. Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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[Gallowmere]

There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic. Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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Honestly, I’m coming around to Broderick Chavez’s way of thinking on this.
If you’re gyno prone, just get the shit cut out and be done with it, instead of slowing your progress while trying to put off the inevitable.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Honestly, I’m coming around to Broderick Chavez’s way of thinking on this.
If you’re gyno prone, just get the shit cut out and be done with it, instead of slowing your progress while trying to put off the inevitable.

That’s what I would do. Or use gear that doesn’t convert to estrogen and just run test at TRT dose all the time.

[Ashop]

There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic. Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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You said it best. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I'm working with a guy in his late 40's right now thats on 70mg per week of TRT and showing signs of gyno. All our bodies can differ from one another. No set standard.

[AR's King Silabolin]

There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic. Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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Strongly dont get this. Estrogen is anabolic but for sure test is way more anabolic.
So why the heck is it ok for your prescious test to convert into something less anabolic??
A little borderhigh is ok because of the cardiatic benefits, allowing to up the androgens in a safe way.

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[Gallowmere]

Strongly dont get this. Estrogen is anabolic but for sure test is way more anabolic.
So why the heck is it ok for your prescious test to convert into something less anabolic??
A little borderhigh is ok because of the cardiatic benefits, allowing to up the androgens in a safe way.

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Hypothetically, you’re right, but in practice it doesn’t work that way. As Chavez has pointed out, talk to any guy with gyno (either present or removed) and ask them when their best gains happened. Nine times of ten, you’ll get “when this happened”.
That’s the basis of his point about just getting the shit cut out if you’re prone, instead of dramatically slowing down progress in the name of trying to delay the inevitable.

[Cuz]

Hadnt used one in over a year. Today i started using one again. My last bloods pulled a 90 on the E scale, test was 1500. This wasnt even a cycle , you cant have one without the other estrogen is just a bi product of test “in a sense”

High estrogen leads to high blood pressure and some fucked up mood swings and irritability. I had no choice but to ease back in the AI and see if it helps me. Like the vets said we are all different i am extremely sensitive to these hormones i dont take big doses hell i cant to many sides.

One last thing im not a fan of the andro gel, id just stick with injecting. You really need to see where your estrogen is sitting to know whether u need an ai or not the dr knows this. I dont like the AI, but at this point im willing to try anything to get my mind right