Religion And Your Opinion ?

[TexSavant]

ile copy and paste my post from the last religion thread...
organized religion is ridiculous to me...i think alot of it goes against the very idea faith and freedom i think any god would want us to have. proof jesus exsisted? youre relying on a source...proof that he didnt, your countering that source with another one..the truth is no one has any idea of where we came from or what we are here for backed with real tangible explenation..but i think its alot easier to justify exsistance/your reason for being alive by sticking to someone elses story. being a catholic(or whatever)..confessing your sins and layin on heavens clowds when you die makes the world a lot more simple then being alone and having your own theories, your own faith, and your own ideas IMO... religion never felt right to me..i went to a catholic school but refused to be confirmed when i was 13.. who is anyone to tell me whats gospel and explain every piece of of he world and space that exsists around it? what makes the bible any more important or divine than what everyone believed before, or after its time? hell you can look a mere 300 years ago and find people being executed for witchcraft!! ****in witchcraft?!!?! and im suppose to believe people thousands of years ago had their story straight?!?!?!?!? and live by thier suggestion?? come on..
but thats not to say im an athiest with no faith...i have an unshakable belief in god, and divine creation..i just dont think anyone should be told how, or why to believe in something that profound.

Wow. If only there were more people like us. I personally always had the same problems (being raised Catholic) but choose to continue to worship God under the auspices of the Catholic Church despite my differences with them in matters of Theology, etc. I could most accurately be described as a Deist who attends Catholic Mass, just as Thomas Jefferson (who wrote his own bible (minus the divinity of Jesus and the other supernatural events) is most accurately described as a Deist who attended Episcopal church.

[TexSavant]

I was kidding, but I do believe in God(Catholic). Also whoever brought up that he created us had a great point. For all of you that don't believe in an organized religion how do you think we were created?

Choosing to follow (or not to follow) an ORGANIZED religion has no bearing on the existence of a Creator. Its up to us to find evidence of His presence in His creation (the universe) and I personally, WILL NOT FOLLOW long dead farmers and shepherds who were appallingly ignorant of the world around them. We are in a much better position today. Read or listen to Stephen Hawking, even he talks about God. He searches for him through highly advanced, avant-garde physics, not medieval or Iron age philosophy or superstition.

[suprman09]

Why do you think we are in a much better position today?

[TexSavant]

Because we arent APPALINGLY IGNORANT. we have an indescribably better ability to discern the rules by which the universe operates. These people were being as rational as they could be. They didnt even know what blood actually did, or what a germ was, or the laws of motion, THEY DIDNT KNOW SHIT, so they had to make stuff up as best they could. They were Sexist, Racist, Bigotted, homophobic, and on and on. READ LEVITICUS AND DEUTERONOMY. Lance Armstrong wouldnt be allowed in the temple because he had a testicle removed. GOD "TOLD" THEM THIS WAS WRONG. (any man who hath had his privy member cut off, or his stones crushed, shall not enter the house of the lord. DEUT 23:1)**BULLSH1T!!!***, OH AND GOD held the sun in the sky (the sun isnt suspended by anything BTW, it orbits the super massive blackhole at the center of the galaxy about every 225 million years) so that the israelites could complete the slaughter of their "enemies" (they arent specific). So they also Accuse God of Genocide. Its obvious to a freethinking individual who will not surrender his DIRECT relationship with God for anyone else's ancient superstition rooted in the inablity of past generations to even BEGIN to understand the universe, and their foolish, misplaced loyalty to those explanations. These beliefs exist now only becuase they were passed down from one generation to the next. No one would come to these conclusions on their own, with a modern library of knowledge in their brain.

[IronReload04]

Dying for a belief does not make it valid. Nor is it the slightest bit of proof therof, or else Mohammed Atta and his 18 fellow hijackers proved Islam correct by slamming into buildings at 500 mph.

But then Jim Jones and David Koresh are right too, and what about the atheist Rosenbergs...Timothy McVeigh.and Buddhist monks who light themselves on fire....a friend of mine who ate mushrooms... and peyote and commited suicide two days later because the world wasn't "REAL"...lots of people die for their beliefs and that is not evidence of their correctness...

As for God being the simplest explanation, it actually is tied with the "scientific" explanations (ie the Big Bang, M-theory [very strange stuff about membranes touching each other and creating new universes, and theres an infinite number])

I AGREE with you that the KEY difference between humans and OTHER ANIMALS is our ability to reason. REASON is the best evidence that we are made in the image of God. Reason is the only way we can understand his creation. I AGREE that the universal desire amongst sentient beings can be taken - in some ethereal way- as evidence of a Creator. Its when you start arguing that God is ALL-POWERFUL and ALL-LOVING and ALL-KNOWING that you run into problems, because that requires a perfect world (see the Riddle of Epicurus)

ya, if my second post got their in time, you would have seen that I said, "if saints were insane, it wouldnt be the first time in history wacko's died for some bogus belief ie purple koolaide" and I still hold that I think the saints may have been rational and sane


as far as perfect world, and all powerful etc..........I used to see problems with that also....I work with a muslum guy.......and we talk about religion from time to time, and I actually really really like some of his opinions about a perfect world vs human suffering and imperfection....


one of his ideas is that, suffering is all part of the plan.....God has more emotions than we have........suffering and world imperfection is not something we can understand as a human, as to why it is present.....but it does serve a purpose.......if your own father discaplined you or showed you how to do something, you would not question it, you are not smart enough to question it......



I like that idea, but as I was typing that, this hit me...........if certain people are chosen to suffer in this world, to perhaps define good and bad, than I guess not all men are created equal are they?

so over the next day or 2, I will be thinking about his idea, and mine that I got while typing this








and as far as creation, you are still stuck with where did that orginal matter come from? why i still think God is the very simplest explanation

[suprman09]

Because we arent APPALINGLY IGNORANT. we have an indescribably better ability to discern the rules by which the universe operates. These people were being as rational as they could be. They didnt even know what blood actually did, or what a germ was, or the laws of motion, THEY DIDNT KNOW SHIT, so they had to make stuff up as best they could. They were Sexist, Racist, Bigotted, homophobic, and on and on. READ LEVITICUS AND DEUTERONOMY. Lance Armstrong wouldnt be allowed in the temple because he had a testicle removed. GOD "TOLD" THEM THIS WAS WRONG. (any man who hath had his privy member cut off, or his stones crushed, shall not enter the house of the lord. DEUT 23:1)**BULLSH1T!!!***, OH AND GOD held the sun in the sky (the sun isnt suspended by anything BTW, it orbits the super massive blackhole at the center of the galaxy about every 225 million years) so that the israelites could complete the slaughter of their "enemies" (they arent specific). So they also Accuse God of Genocide. Its obvious to a freethinking individual who will not surrender his DIRECT relationship with God for anyone else's ancient superstition rooted in the inablity of past generations to even BEGIN to understand the universe, and their foolish, misplaced loyalty to those explanations. These beliefs exist now only becuase they were passed down from one generation to the next. No one would come to these conclusions on their own, with a modern library of knowledge in their brain.

Are you angry at God? LOL.

[Tock]

-I think that historians agree that Jesus existed

Not really.
At least, not the scholars who do history all day long as their profession.
Conservative Christian Fundamentalists beleive that Jesus existed, but that's more because it's part of their religious beleif system, not because they did the actual research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_Jesus_Exist%3F gives but one of many perspectives on this topic.

[IronReload04]

I was kidding, but I do believe in God(Catholic). Also whoever brought up that he created us had a great point. For all of you that don't believe in an organized religion how do you think we were created?

its not just that I dont really like organized religion.......I think I lean towards believing in God, and Jesus..


its just that their is so much bullshit in the catholic religion its not even ****en funny

[suprman09]

its not just that I dont really like organized religion.......I think I lean towards believing in God, and Jesus..


its just that their is so much bullshit in the catholic religion its not even ****en funny

Very true. For people that don't believe in any type of religion how do you think we were created? Spontaneous combustion?

[IronReload04]

Not really.
At least, not the scholars who do history all day long as their profession.
Conservative Christian Fundamentalists beleive that Jesus existed, but that's more because it's part of their religious beleif system, not because they did the actual research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_Jesus_Exist%3F gives but one of many perspectives on this topic.

I have talked to philosophers, and they hold that historians generally agree'd he existed......

also, Romans in general except that pilate crucified him

[TexSavant]

ya, if my second post got their in time, you would have seen that I said, "if saints were insane, it wouldnt be the first time in history wacko's died for some bogus belief ie purple koolaide" and I still hold that I think the saints may have been rational and sane


as far as perfect world, and all powerful etc..........I used to see problems with that also....I work with a muslum guy.......and we talk about religion from time to time, and I actually really really like some of his opinions about a perfect world vs human suffering and imperfection....


one of his ideas is that, suffering is all part of the plan.....God has more emotions than we have........suffering and world imperfection is not something we can understand as a human, as to why it is present.....but it does serve a purpose.......if your own father discaplined you or showed you how to do something, you would not question it, you are not smart enough to question it......

Haha, theres the difference between me and your friend. I always questioned my father, I defied him and I occasionally pissed him off. I ALWAYS asked why until he had to just say BECAUSE. I ALWAYS looked for a better way until i either found one, or decided it was no longer worth searching for it.

This is another "Its a mystery" rationalization. Who says God has emotions? Who can prove he deosn't. In Sec. Rumsfeld's words "these questions are not knowable!" All higher animals have emotions. What you've never seen elephants mourn their dead? pay respect to Elephant skulls they pass by? Seen two foxes in love? Emotions are subroutines that are designed to override rational thought in order to increase your chances of passing on your genes (not necessarily survival). In the right situations, thats exactly what they do. Fear, love, even hatred and prejudice all have their place in aiding this task. Read "the selfish gene" by Richard Dawkins and you'll understand this very well. All of the Logical problems associated with religious dogma go away when you accept the truth as revealed by mans observations. Except the one that you quite astutely point out, which is the following :

And as far as creation, you are still stuck with where did that orginal matter come from? why i still think God is the very simplest explanation

The answer to that question is the same (in other words, EQUAL TO) the question, WHERE DID GOD COME FROM..?? He always was OR It always was.
They are the SAME FUKCING ANSWER.

I like that idea, but as I was typing that, this hit me...........if certain people are chosen to suffer in this world, to perhaps define good and bad, than I guess not all men are created equal are they?

Clearly they are not. God could be an emotionless being. We just dont know.

[TexSavant]

Are you angry at God? LOL.

Nope. I am angry at the Assholes who commit murder in His name and the Fools that follow them. Oh and the ones who molest children and the FOOLS that protect them. LOL is the only response you have because DEUTERONOMY and LEVITICUS are in fact irreconcilable with YOUR belief in a Loving God, not just mine. :-)

You're not bad at asking questions, but so far appear utterly incapable of rational intellectual argument. I suppose thats why you need SOMEONE ELSE's beliefs and explanations to cling to in the first place, so it comes as no surprise.

[Diamonite]

the movie below is what i think really of the majorty. it's 2 hours long and google video. but it's ****ing interesting. have a look and you really won't be able to stop watching it.

the whole goto sleep and don't remember what happens is what death is like thing. is pretty cool and i have lots of ideas like that as well. but their is so much more to it i believe. so much unexplainable shit.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

[TexSavant]

I have talked to philosophers, and they hold that historians generally agree'd he existed......

also, Romans in general except that pilate crucified him

YES, historians are in near universal agreement that Jesus Christ existed, or rather, Yeshua / Jesus of Nazareth, as they refer to him

[Diamonite]

pretty deep discussion here. seriously if you ever get the chance. watch that video i posted above. probably change your life.

[suprman09]

Nope. I am angry at the Assholes who commit murder in His name and the Fools that follow them. Oh and the ones who molest children and the FOOLS that protect them. LOL is the only response you have because DEUTERONOMY and LEVITICUS are in fact irreconcilable with YOUR belief in a Loving God, not just mine. :-)

You're not bad at asking questions, but so far appear utterly incapable of rational intellectual argument. I suppose thats why you need SOMEONE ELSE's beliefs and explanations to cling to in the first place, so it comes as no surprise.

Hey buddy you don't have to go all crazy just because you have problems with something. You don't know anything for a fact so everyone can have their own opinion. You are trying to make the Catholic religion look ridiculous and false because you have no faith in anything. Just because you are uncomfortable and unstable with your own life doesn't mean you should try to prove that a certain religion shouldn't exist.

[peteroy01]

+1 on the video

[bigboy003]

"Religion is based I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing--fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand." -Bertrand Russell

[doolo]

TexSavant, you are awsome man. I need to learn how to put thoughts into words like you do.

[Tock]

I have talked to philosophers, and they hold that historians generally agree'd he existed......

also, Romans in general except that pilate crucified him

I know a couple guys going to the SMU (Southern Methodist University) school of theology, and they tell me all the professors there are atheists. A couple of 'em are "bite-your-head-off" lesbian atheists, too.

And, if you talk to Jewish, Hindu, Buddist, etc. theologians, they'll have different opinions. If you want to go by numbers, well, since most of the planet's population is not Christian, it's a safe bet to assume that most of the planet's theologians will not assume that Jesus existed.

Nevertheless, most people once thought the world was flat. And most people once thought that George W. Bush was a good US President. Goes to show ya that most people can be wrong.

[Tock]

Very true. For people that don't believe in any type of religion how do you think we were created? Spontaneous combustion?

My mom and dad made me. That's how I got here.

How the universe got here, I haven't a clue. I don't think that anyone's got a clue, either.

There are lots of religions with different creation stories, but none of them are based on any sort of fact.

[Amorphic]

well this thread certainly picked up some steam

[Tock]

well this thread certainly picked up some steam

Hopefully, none of it "around the collar" . . .

[Amorphic]

Hopefully, none of it "around the collar" . . .

throw religion in the mix and around the collar is hard to avoid

[TexSavant]

Hey buddy you don't have to go all crazy just because you have problems with something. You don't know anything for a fact so everyone can have their own opinion. You are trying to make the Catholic religion look ridiculous and false because you have no faith in anything. Just because you are uncomfortable and unstable with your own life doesn't mean you should try to prove that a certain religion shouldn't exist.

Like I said, you have shown no ability to defeat the argument itself, only to commit ad hominem attacks against ME, to which I take no offense for reasons that I have already made abundantly clear. I actually did not mention specifically the Catholic Church in the last post I directed to you, to which you replied. I said I am angry at those that commit murder and molest children in the name of God. YOU either assumed or deduced that I was talking about the Catholic Church. Plenty of other churches or denominations have done equally pernicious things in the name of God. I am actually quite thankful that the Catholic Church motivated the people of Europe to spurn and defeat the attempts of Muslims to Islamize the western world, or else I would either not be here or not be free. I am likewise thankful for the efforts of Pope John Paul the Great in defeating communism and bringing the world one major step closer to peace and civility. As for faith, I have a different definition. I BELIEVE IN GOD, WHO CREATED ME AND THE UNIVERSE. There is somewhat more reason and evidence to believe that He exists than there is NOT to. If He wishes to tell me how to do something, He is perfectly capable of doing so. I willl not have 'faith' in HUMAN INSTITUTIONS, be they religious or secular, from them I require EVIDENCE and REASON. No church, mosque, temple, or whatever you wish to call it has ever offered me even remotely convincing evidence that THEY ALONE confer the Truth of the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Creator to whom I owe my respect, love, and very existence. The kind of faith most people have is a nearly-blind willingness (or even NEED) to follow a particular institution and its Dogma. This applies to secular institutions like governments just as much as it does to organized religion. The FAITH(read: blind willingness to follow) of the German people in DER FUHRER and the "Thousand Year Reich" (<---LOL) led to mass murder and the near total destruction of their country as well as others. The Faith of Muslims in the inerrancy of their Qur'an, and in the promise of paradise for martyrs, sometimes leads to PhD's and Architects flying into walls at 500 MPH and the deaths of 3,000 people in the span of an hour or two. Or to teenagers strapping belts of plastique to their a**omens and blowing up Iraqi or Israeli school children who want candy, or just to go home to their mothers on a school bus. NONE of the GOOD that Religious DOGMATISM leads to would be lost by ignoring it in favor of a personal relationship with God, expressed by a willingness to help one another and an unwillingness to die or kill for someone else's warped vision of the 'will of God'.

I ACCEPT your assertion that God created the Universe.
I ACCEPT that God is an inherently loving being. (Why else create?)
I ACCEPT that it is good to give him thanks and praise.
I ACCEPT the general contention of all religions that we must restrict our behavior (practice moral life choices) in order to achieve a stable, desirable society.

I ACCEPT a great many other things as well.

Beyond this, I simply haven't been shown enough evidence, nor been enticed by sufficient Reason to believe more. In fact, I have seen a great deal of evidence AGAINST dogmatism, a tiny fraction of which was sampled in the preceding lines of this post.

BLIND FAITH IN ANY KIND OF DOGMA IS DANGEROUS, PERIOD.

If you have strong, intelligent arguments, based on reason and evidence, please FEEL FREE to enlighten me, (you might change my mind) just be aware that they have to be good.

[stacked566]

Holy crap, that movie has just changed my life....I'm losing it!!

[Diamonite]

My mom and dad made me. That's how I got here.

How the universe got here, I haven't a clue. I don't think that anyone's got a clue, either.

There are lots of religions with different creation stories, but none of them are based on any sort of fact.

speaking of the universe and theories. watch this video about possibly confirming the higgs theory through a 6 billion dollar project. another movie that you really should at least take a look. an hour long. cheerz!


and while you're at it scroll up and watch that other movie i posted !!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...21153918323669

[gixxerboy1]

Religion is faith. And what is fine. But when people start confusing it or taking it for fact thats when it become's dangerous

[Flagg]

I believe religion IN ALL FORMS is way past it's sell by date. I study Science, i'll be going on to study Science at University next year and so far Science has given us a far better insight into the truths of life. Religion is the enemy of science and progression.

[mr newbreed]

so whats YOUR opinion CREATION or EVOLUTION ?

[TexSavant]

so whats YOUR opinion CREATION or EVOLUTION ?

This is a False Dichotomy. You are assuming that its either or, which is not true. God could create a universe with physical rules that would eventually lead to intelligent (human) life. The ideas are quite compatible, the creation myths found in different religions vary in their degree of compatibility with what we now know about the origin and evolution of life. The Dogon myth of a Jackal raping the Earth is clearly luney tunes and incompatible with science. The Hebrew story of God creating the world in six periods (yom can mean generic period, not nececarrily DAY as its been translated) is much more compatible. The Hindu creation story is perhaps most squarely in line with modern knowledge as they believe the Universe to be 8.36 billion years old [cosmologists theorize it to be abt 13 billion) .

[Psychotron]

I believe religion IN ALL FORMS is way past it's sell by date. I study Science, i'll be going on to study Science at University next year and so far Science has given us a far better insight into the truths of life. Religion is the enemy of science and progression.

Religion and science aren't really enemies. The problem is one book tries to affirm statements of science when it should only be about faith and doctrine.

so whats YOUR opinion CREATION or EVOLUTION ?

There really isn't a need to worry about this, unless you want to refer to the age of the earth and so forth, and I feel anyone who touts a young earth is only hurting the attraction others might have to their faith. God isn't deceiving, or I should suspect he isn't, and all evidence points to an earth billions of years old.

Evolution in a biology scale? Meh, the problem is all the fossils for human ancestors can fit in the back up my friends pickup, some of it is guess work, and some is very convincing.

[thegodfather]

how do you know all this if you dont mind me asking,also as a religion what do you in your opinion think of it

I know all of that because I was raised in it until about 13 years old. To be honest, the principle of the religion is very good. As far as the members of the church go they are all very very good people. One aspect I like about it is that if you do something wrong, then you're most likely kicked out, whereas with the Catholic religion all you have to do is sit in a box for 15 minutes and then you're redeemed. They are very strict about sticking to the ideals that they profess. Very good hearted and good intentioned people for the most part. As I stated earlier no one is in it for the money, and its all by donation only. All of their practices can be found in the bible which is a plus. The things I dislike about it are the views that you shouldn't associate with people outside of their religion. I believe theres good people everywhere, not just within a group of people with the same ideals.

My personal feelings on religion. Well as many know I study science, and as such I look towards concrete observations for my knowledge. However, I believe that the more in depth I study science, the more you CANNOT deny that there is an innate design with all things, actually a genious and perfect design to be honest. So I believe the more one studies science the more one cannot refute the idea of a designer. What I do not subscribe to, is that that designer inspired the writing of a bible, 5,000 years into 600,000 years of human existence on Earth. I do not subscribe to the idea that that designer built humans with innate urges and desires, and wrote a series of rules in direct contradiction with those desires. I do not believe in organized religion, and I do not believe someone has to goto church every Sunday in order for God to know you love him. Living your life everyday the way you want to, should show "GOD" that you are appreciating what he/she has given you. Thats pretty much where I stand, I believe in a creator, but I dont nessecarily subscribe to any current theologies, or the fact that god even calls himself/herself God.

[DSM4Life]

Look what you did mr newbreed

[Amorphic]

Look what you did mr newbreed

hehe

[Diamonite]

watch my movies!

[Amorphic]

watch my movies!

i watched zeitgeist several months ago, i even started a thread on it.

[DSM4Life]

3 Threads that get the most responses

Religion Gay Sex

[Amorphic]

3 Threads that get the most responses

Religion Gay Sex

definetly. They all kind of go together haha

[Diamonite]

i watched zeitgeist several months ago, i even started a thread on it.

nice dude.