Cardio and steroids?

[iagainsti]

A good clean diet high in protein combined with cardio 5x week for 45mins should be golden. If you follow a low carb diet try and keep your cardio low intensity keeping your HR under approx 130bpm as not to burn muscle.

[Lemonada8]

A good clean diet high in protein combined with cardio 5x week for 45mins should be golden. If you follow a low carb diet try and keep your cardio low intensity keeping your HR under approx 130bpm as not to burn muscle.

it doesnt have to be under 130, actually its usually above 130... u gotta do some math and find ur zone... its at like 70-85 % u wanna keep ur HR in...


220 - your age = max HR
max HR x .70 = lower end of your range
max HR x .85 = upper end of your range

[OnT]

it doesnt have to be under 130, actually its usually above 130... u gotta do some math and find ur zone... its at like 70-85 % u wanna keep ur HR in...


220 - your age = max HR
max HR x .70 = lower end of your range
max HR x .85 = upper end of your range

That sounds about right I usually try to keep mine at 140 -155 and I'm 47. I do 20 minutes at upper end HR right after every workout 5 days a week.

Diet is key though cals in and cals out is what makes you lean.

[Raw Deal]

A good clean diet high in protein combined with cardio 5x week for 45mins should be golden. If you follow a low carb diet try and keep your cardio low intensity keeping your HR under approx 130bpm as not to burn muscle.

IMO..thats alot of cardio....i do it 3 times a wk tops Bro, 20 min or you start in on muscle mass........

[iagainsti]

IMO..thats alot of cardio....i do it 3 times a wk tops Bro, 20 min or you start in on muscle mass........

Im 38 and have never really had a great metabolism so I feel I have to work harder then most to stay lean. I usually do 4-5 50 min sessions a week, so to each their own. Again if your running over 130 bpm, once the glycogen is burned from your muscle your body will break down muscle instead of fat as a fuel source and this is especially true on low carb diets. If you just want to burn fat -you can go longer and not interfere with muscle breakdown by low level intensity cardio. Its true HIT cardio burns more cals but the make up of the cals is all wrong.

[Lemonada8]

Again if your running over 130 bpm, once the glycogen is burned from your muscle your body will break down muscle instead of fat as a fuel source and this is especially true on low carb diets. If you just want to burn fat -you can go longer and not interfere with muscle breakdown by low level intensity cardio. Its true HIT cardio burns more cals but the make up of the cals is all wrong.

this is not true...

with training muscles, they store more glycogen in the muscles and triglycerides than untrained muscles, the FFA's are better mobilized and more accessible to trained muscles, the muscles ability to oxidize fat increases with training, and muscles reliance on fat stores first conserves glycogen during prolonged exercise.

protein is the LAST source of energy that the body uses because
A) it only has 4 cal/ g, fat has 9 cal/g
B) the amine (NH3) group on the amino acid is hard for the body to break apart because they cannot be oxidized, then keto acids are left in the body... basically this whole process is a last ditch for energy...
C) the muscle glycogen that is stored in the muscle is for the fast glycolytic, and the fast oxidative glycolytic muscles... cardio in a HR aobut 60-75% of max HR WILL NOT ACTIVATE these muscles... cardio in that HR will activate the slow oxidative muscles, which will oxidize carbs completely, and oxidize fats...
D) slow twitch muscles use oxidative phosphorlation which will oxidize fat, because thats the only way that fat can be used for energy... oxidation...
E) if you want to get really techinical with it... a .7 of a persons RER is using 100% fat and 0% CHO... but a average RER at rest is about .78... so its hard to get a RER at .7... but a RER at .85 will use roughly 50-50 carbs/fat - so if you are in a carb defecient diet... you will have to use more fat than carbs

so you have to be WAY above a 130 HR to even begin to think about burning the proteins from the muscles... and its going to get the protein from the diet before muscle... the only time it gets protein from the muscles is in times of starvation and extreme malnutrition

[ryanryan]

if you did cardio before breakfast you'd have no food in your stomach and you've starved yourself for about 8 hours (assuming you sleep properly) so you'd be much more likely to burn muscle than if you did the cardio after you'd got some energy from food.

[OnT]

if you did cardio before breakfast you'd have no food in your stomach and you've starved yourself for about 8 hours (assuming you sleep properly) so you'd be much more likely to burn muscle than if you did the cardio after you'd got some energy from food.

Body always burns sugar first - a light shake pre-workout with some carbs is enough for that to happen after you have depleted that by lifting, the body switches over to burning fat so 20mins of cardio at high end HR will not burn enough fat for the body to switch from burning fat to burning muscle.

That said, more than 20 mins and you could be asking for trouble.

[ryanryan]

yeh and try to keep the whole workout under 45mins so you dont start releasing cortisol

[iagainsti]

this is not true...

with training muscles, they store more glycogen in the muscles and triglycerides than untrained muscles, the FFA's are better mobilized and more accessible to trained muscles, the muscles ability to oxidize fat increases with training, and muscles reliance on fat stores first conserves glycogen during prolonged exercise.

protein is the LAST source of energy that the body uses because
A) it only has 4 cal/ g, fat has 9 cal/g
B) the amine (NH3) group on the amino acid is hard for the body to break apart because they cannot be oxidized, then keto acids are left in the body... basically this whole process is a last ditch for energy...
C) the muscle glycogen that is stored in the muscle is for the fast glycolytic, and the fast oxidative glycolytic muscles... cardio in a HR aobut 60-75% of max HR WILL NOT ACTIVATE these muscles... cardio in that HR will activate the slow oxidative muscles, which will oxidize carbs completely, and oxidize fats...
D) slow twitch muscles use oxidative phosphorlation which will oxidize fat, because thats the only way that fat can be used for energy... oxidation...
E) if you want to get really techinical with it... a .7 of a persons RER is using 100% fat and 0% CHO... but a average RER at rest is about .78... so its hard to get a RER at .7... but a RER at .85 will use roughly 50-50 carbs/fat - so if you are in a carb defecient diet... you will have to use more fat than carbs

so you have to be WAY above a 130 HR to even begin to think about burning the proteins from the muscles... and its going to get the protein from the diet before muscle... the only time it gets protein from the muscles is in times of starvation and extreme malnutrition

I agree with you to a point. We 1st need to clarify some things for the sake of arguement. Im a firm believer in that the human body has a "set point" for BF% levels. This set point is a survival mechanism and everybodies will be different. With strict diet and excercise mine appears to be about 15%. I can readily shed fat with a proper diet and any type of cardio and exercise up this point as long as I stay consistant. I strive for around 12% and its very very difficult for me to achieve. 12% may seem high for most people but I feel I look very good at this level and since I dont compete, I dont feel I need to go any lower.

Now since this is a site dedicated to bodybuiding I approached my original answer towards the bodybuilding athlete trying to get beyond their bodies setpoint bf%. You stated "the only time it gets protein from the muscles is in times of starvation and extreme malnutrition." Well the body will sense lower then extreme bodyfat (past the setpoint) and since the body doesnt care if you have six pack abs and uses fat as a means of survival it will do exactly that-hoard fat stores and breakdown muscle for fuel. Since most bodybuilders run some sort of low carb diet and want to get past their setpoint.

I'm gonna steal a quote from Dave Palumbo whom I feel has some wacky ideas reguarding AAS usage, but feel is the man concerning diet and nutrition.
"High Intensity Cardio -While it's true that HIT cardio may burn more calories, the quality of the calories is all wrong. When intesity level increases heart rate to over 70% of max (around 120-140 bpm) the body stops using fat and starts using carbs as a fuel source. In the absence of carbs (usual precontest diet) the body will turn lean muscle tissue into glucose and use that for energy. The whole purpose of doing cardio for the physique athlete is to maximize fat burning; not to lose lean muscle tissue."

Sorry this is so long winded but any person sitting at 30% BF will lose fat thru any means of excercise and diet. Its the final couple of percentage points that can get a little tricky.