Looking for some help.

[theforce3169]

Let me begin by saying that I am 38 years old, weigh about 210, 6'3" tall. I am a recovering addict/alcoholic/etc. Food was my first drug of choice back when I was 11 years old. I was a really skinny kid.....until then that is. I ate, and ate, and ate, mostly junk. I became fat quickly and up until I was 31 I was overweight and did alot of drinking and drugging. My average weight from 23 til 31 was about 275, and, I once wieghed 310.

My last time in the state pen. in '98 I decided to get into shape. At this time I wieghed my most 310. After 9 months of walking, jogging, handball, etc. I got down to 247......pretty amazing!

I got out in early 2001 and went back to doping but still put on weight; back to 265. I got into rehab and since I had no major responsibilities at the time, I went to the gym 7 days a week. I had no clue as to what I was doing. I probably did alot of damage. I mean, can you imagine a guy at 267 jogging on the treadmill.....yeah, my knees, shins, EVERYTHING started hurting.

Just after about 10 months I actually got down to 188lbs. I had trainers at the gym telling me that my losing weight that fast was dangerous. People were telling me that I was too skinny, which actually after being fat my whole life made me feel good!

I was on a starvation diet at this time (3 small meals a day and one snack). You gotta remember I grew up in the 80's when starvation diets were the thing. I wanted to put on some muscle and I finally got a trainer who told me that I had to eat 5 to 7 times a day.

I learned a little about exercise and quite a bit about nutrition in the past 7 years, but, man have I been struggling. Remember I was an active dope fiend for 17 years of my life, was overweight. And, now I found out some years ago that I have a herniated L5 which is also degenerating (man this ****er hurts EVERY GODDAMNED DAY!)

I also have hepatitis C and along with my back pain and some strange phenomenon with my midsection I find it quite hard to stay motivated. This midsection thing is a long story, but, in short, it has been theorized that because I had been so overweight for so long that my stomach muscle lining had been stretched out and though I am alot skinnier, the lining is still weak. What happened is that about 3 years ago I was doing stomach/core routines and all of a sudden my stomach portruded and felt like someone took a red hot Rambo knife and gutted my ass.........worst pain EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, its not a hernia because you cant feel it. Perhaps because of the weak lining that I have a potential for a hernia but, hell I don't have insurance so I don't know.

ANYWAYS I am here today to just get some ideas on a workout I can do to build mass. I will want to cut later, but for now I would like all the info I can get on adding muscle mass while keeping fat gains low. This would include: nutrition, supplements, workout routines (be specific I need stuff spelled out!), etc.

REMEMBER, I am 38 years old, herniated/degenerative L5, joints hurt due to Hepatitis C. I wiegh 210 and I am almost 6'3".


Thanks
Shawn

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Im not sure what all you can and can't do workout wise, but here are some basics, and just see what works for you.

A basic split looks like:

Mon: chest/triceps
tuesday: off
wed: Back/biceps
thursday: shoulder/traps
friday: legs
satff
sun: off

abs can be done where ever you see fit...

Being new/fresh, I would start out with higher rep stuff, in the 12-15 rep range per set

Examples of exercises:
chest: bb/db flat bench, bb/db incline bench, dips, butterflies, decline bench
triceps: skullcrushers, close grip bench, cable pressdowns
back: deadlifts, pull ups, lat pull downs, bent over rows,
bicep: curls, preacher curls, db incline curls, hammer curls
shoulder: military press, side/front laterals, reverse butterflies
traps: upright rows, shrugs
legs: squats, leg press, lunges, leg curls, calf raises

FORM IS KEY ABOVE ALL ELSE. Know what your doing with proper form.

I usually do 10-15 sets for the bigger muscles, i.e. chest/back/legs/some shoulder. and 7 sets or so for smaller ones, tris/biis/traps
Please Note: everyone is different
Just mess with it, and see what works for you. Everyone is different.

If you wanna throw in cardio do 30 min after workouts, @ 65% MHR (max heart rate). Off days, do 45 min-1 hr. preferably on an empty stomach

As far as gaining mass, thats diet there. Visit the diet section, read the stickies at the top, in bold. and throw together a diet, post it up, and people will critique for you.

Supplements, uuummm right now, I'd say just get your basic whey protein, multivitamin, and some BCAAs. once you get a solid diet and workout routine down, then you can add some or whatever

Last but not least, you sound like you have been through a lot. So, props to you on cleaning up your life, and best of luck.

[theforce3169]

Im not sure what all you can and can't do workout wise, but here are some basics, and just see what works for you.

A basic split looks like:

Mon: chest/triceps
tuesday: off
wed: Back/biceps
thursday: shoulder/traps
friday: legs
satff
sun: off

abs can be done where ever you see fit...

Being new/fresh, I would start out with higher rep stuff, in the 12-15 rep range per set

Examples of exercises:
chest: bb/db flat bench, bb/db incline bench, dips, butterflies, decline bench
triceps: skullcrushers, close grip bench, cable pressdowns
back: deadlifts, pull ups, lat pull downs, bent over rows,
bicep: curls, preacher curls, db incline curls, hammer curls
shoulder: military press, side/front laterals, reverse butterflies
traps: upright rows, shrugs
legs: squats, leg press, lunges, leg curls, calf raises

FORM IS KEY ABOVE ALL ELSE. Know what your doing with proper form.

I usually do 10-15 sets for the bigger muscles, i.e. chest/back/legs/some shoulder. and 7 sets or so for smaller ones, tris/biis/traps
Please Note: everyone is different
Just mess with it, and see what works for you. Everyone is different.

If you wanna throw in cardio do 30 min after workouts, @ 65% MHR (max heart rate). Off days, do 45 min-1 hr. preferably on an empty stomach

As far as gaining mass, thats diet there. Visit the diet section, read the stickies at the top, in bold. and throw together a diet, post it up, and people will critique for you.

Supplements, uuummm right now, I'd say just get your basic whey protein, multivitamin, and some BCAAs. once you get a solid diet and workout routine down, then you can add some or whatever

Last but not least, you sound like you have been through a lot. So, props to you on cleaning up your life, and best of luck.

Yeah, I have been through quite a bit, thanks for the well wishes.
And, thanks for the advise.

So, if I am trying to build mass, it's okay to do cardio? I keep hearing so many differences of opinions on this. One side says that if you do cardio you will lose the energy you need when you are working to build mass. I guess doing cardio after lifting would solve that problem..........
I would think that some cardio is necessary to lessen fat gains.

My chiropractor tells me that I shouldn't lift weights because of my lower back problems. Sometimes, I feel like she is right because the ****er hurts.
I know squats aren't a good idea and so far as cardio goes, jogging is a big no-no....which sucks because I like it

How do I determine my MHR?

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Yeah, I have been through quite a bit, thanks for the well wishes.
And, thanks for the advise.

So, if I am trying to build mass, it's okay to do cardio? I keep hearing so many differences of opinions on this. One side says that if you do cardio you will lose the energy you need when you are working to build mass. I guess doing cardio after lifting would solve that problem..........
I would think that some cardio is necessary to lessen fat gains.

My chiropractor tells me that I shouldn't lift weights because of my lower back problems. Sometimes, I feel like she is right because the ****er hurts.
I know squats aren't a good idea and so far as cardio goes, jogging is a big no-no....which sucks because I like it

How do I determine my MHR?

65% max heart rate is: (220 – your age) x .65
Its usually not jogging. For me, its more of a semi fast paced walk on an incline on the treadmill.

Yes,, cardio needs to be done when bulking. 3 times a week would suffice, for about 45 minutes each time.

[theforce3169]

65% max heart rate is: (220 – your age) x .65
Its usually not jogging. For me, its more of a semi fast paced walk on an incline on the treadmill.

Yes,, cardio needs to be done when bulking. 3 times a week would suffice, for about 45 minutes each time.

Thank you for the info. Should I implement the cardio on my off days? Or, should I do them after lifting?

[theforce3169]

65% max heart rate is: (220 – your age) x .65
Its usually not jogging. For me, its more of a semi fast paced walk on an incline on the treadmill.

Yes,, cardio needs to be done when bulking. 3 times a week would suffice, for about 45 minutes each time.

WOW, I just used the formula, and my 65% is only about 119. WOW, when I do cardio, according to the machines, my HR is between 145 and 155. But, I only go for between 20 and 25 minutes. I'll try the 45 min at 65%, see how it goes.

How do you measure your HR when you are doing cardio?

[theforce3169]

65% max heart rate is: (220 – your age) x .65
Its usually not jogging. For me, its more of a semi fast paced walk on an incline on the treadmill.

Yes,, cardio needs to be done when bulking. 3 times a week would suffice, for about 45 minutes each time.

I know I can go find other workout techniques/methods/etc, but do you have a particular routine you recommend or use yourself?

Is there any routine on here you particularly like? Or, do you do your own? When bulking how do you lift (how many sets? How many reps? Do you warmup and gradually increase weight? Or, do you do a couple of warm ups of a certain muscle group and then go to your max and work your way down?

I read that pyramiding technique on here somewhere.........

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Thank you for the info. Should I implement the cardio on my off days? Or, should I do them after lifting?

Whatever works for you. Personally, I would do them on off days, right when you wake up, on an empty stomach.
My main point was that if you do do cardio on lifting days, do it after, not before workout.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

WOW, I just used the formula, and my 65% is only about 119. WOW, when I do cardio, according to the machines, my HR is between 145 and 155. But, I only go for between 20 and 25 minutes. I'll try the 45 min at 65%, see how it goes.

How do you measure your HR when you are doing cardio?

Yeah, its def not a fast pace. You can do 70% if you want.
But it shouldn't be easy either. It should be easier on the joints for ya
If you want something quicker/harder you can look into HIIT (high intensity interval training) but thats def not done for 45 minutes... its a whole new kind of cardio


The treadmill I use reads my HR. Or you can buy a HR monitor from Academy or elsewhere

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

I know I can go find other workout techniques/methods/etc, but do you have a particular routine you recommend or use yourself?

Is there any routine on here you particularly like? Or, do you do your own? When bulking how do you lift (how many sets? How many reps? Do you warmup and gradually increase weight? Or, do you do a couple of warm ups of a certain muscle group and then go to your max and work your way down?

I read that pyramiding technique on here somewhere.........

Right now, Im doing a regular one muscle group a week split:

Monday: Back/Traps
( deadlifts 3 sets, pull ups 3, bent over rows 3, 2-3 lat pulldowns....bb shrugs 4, db shrugs 3)
Tuesday: Chest/Abs
(db incline bench 3, db flat bench 3, dips 3, 2-3 incline flies....whatever for abs, usually decline situps, and decline reverse crunches )
Wed.: Off
Thursday: Legs
(squats 3-4, lunges 3, leg press 2-3, leg curls 3, seated/standing calf raises 5-6 sets)
friday: shoulders/arms
(military press 3, side/front laterals 2-3 each, reverse flies 2-3......i superset standing bb curls with skullcrushers 3 sets. then superset db incline flies and angled bar press downs 3 sets. then about 6-7 quick, heavy, hard sets of wrist curls)
sat and sun: off


I do about 2-3 warm up sets when I started with the bigger muscle. Im doing mixed rep range per week, 1st week low reps, 2nd week med rep, 3rd high reps, then repeat.


Main thing is to see what works for you. Everyone is different and it takes time to see what really works...

I like to change my workouts every 3-4 months or so...

[theforce3169]

Yeah, its def not a fast pace. You can do 70% if you want.
But it shouldn't be easy either. It should be easier on the joints for ya
If you want something quicker/harder you can look into HIIT (high intensity interval training) but thats def not done for 45 minutes... its a whole new kind of cardio


The treadmill I use reads my HR. Or you can buy a HR monitor from Academy or elsewhere

Where do I get info on HIIT?

[AdamGH]

Where do I get info on HIIT?

Ill find you some info. Just take it a little easy with it. If you get into to hard core to soon, you joints and bones wont like you to much lol. You have to give it time for your muscles, tendons and joints used to the stress again.

[theforce3169]

Right now, Im doing a regular one muscle group a week split:

Monday: Back/Traps
( deadlifts 3 sets, pull ups 3, bent over rows 3, 2-3 lat pulldowns....bb shrugs 4, db shrugs 3)
Tuesday: Chest/Abs
(db incline bench 3, db flat bench 3, dips 3, 2-3 incline flies....whatever for abs, usually decline situps, and decline reverse crunches )
Wed.: Off
Thursday: Legs
(squats 3-4, lunges 3, leg press 2-3, leg curls 3, seated/standing calf raises 5-6 sets)
friday: shoulders/arms
(military press 3, side/front laterals 2-3 each, reverse flies 2-3......i superset standing bb curls with skullcrushers 3 sets. then superset db incline flies and angled bar press downs 3 sets. then about 6-7 quick, heavy, hard sets of wrist curls)
sat and sun: off


I do about 2-3 warm up sets when I started with the bigger muscle. Im doing mixed rep range per week, 1st week low reps, 2nd week med rep, 3rd high reps, then repeat.


Main thing is to see what works for you. Everyone is different and it takes time to see what really works...

I like to change my workouts every 3-4 months or so...

Yeah, everyone is different, but it's good to have a springboard to go off of......thanks.

As far as reps go, I would consider low reps=3to5, med reps=6to8, and high would be 9to13. What say you?
Do you have a cap on your high reps? Like, if you can do 15 easy would you add more weight?

When you switch between low, med, and high reps per week, does that change how many sets you do? Or, do you do the same amount?

It's hard for me to do certain exercises like squats. I have a herniated/degenerative L5. My chiropractor doesn't even like me to lift, but, there is no way in hell I am going to stop lifting. Tonight is a good night, I think I'll do some legs tonight.......

[theforce3169]

Ill find you some info. Just take it a little easy with it. If you get into to hard core to soon, you joints and bones wont like you to much lol. You have to give it time for your muscles, tendons and joints used to the stress again.

Thank you.
Yeah, when I first started out 6 years ago, I know I went way to hard!!!
My knees, shins, ankles, back and elbows remind me of that!

Plus, I have Hep C and one of the symptoms is joint pain......YAY!!!!

[AdamGH]

article:


Yes, believe it or not, all of those hours upon boring hours of repetitive low to moderate intensity cardio training sessions are not the best way to lose body fat and reveal your abs. Many trainers and the media seem obsessed with the thinking that the best and only way to lose body fat is through long boring cardio routines. Well, I’m here to tell you that they couldn’t be more wrong!


Look around and you’ll see people all the time laboriously pumping away on some cardio machine day after day wondering why they can’t lose any more body fat. While it is true that aerobic training (cardio) does burn a higher percentage of fat during the actual exercising than anaerobic training such as wind sprints or weight training (which rely more heavily on carbs for energy), this does not mean that aerobic training will promote a leaner body than anaerobic training. The reason for this relates to the important aspects of your overall RMR, the quantity of lean body mass you possess, the hormonal response from the exercise stimulus, and the residual metabolic effect of your training session in the hours and days following your workout.


First, as previously stated, your RMR remains elevated for only 1-2 hours following a typical cardio workout. Conversely, your RMR remains elevated for up to 1-2 days following a strenuous anaerobic training session (weight training, sprints, and other high intensity exercises) in which a large quantity of your skeletal muscle has been traumatized. This trauma created in your muscles during anaerobic training is the process of muscle protein breakdown. Then, in the hours and days following that anaerobic training session, your body must repair the damaged muscle. This is called muscle protein synthesis. During this whole process, your RMR is elevated due to the repair work your body is performing. Hence, you end up burning a lot more additional calories from this residual RMR increase than you would have from the cardio training session. In the long run, this aspect is more important towards creating a lean body than those few extra fat calories that you would have burned during a cardio workout.


Second, as simple as this fact sounds, it is most often overlooked in people trying to lose weight who think that they have to focus on cardio to lose the weight. Weight training builds lean muscle mass and therefore increases your RMR. Excessive cardio training actually can cause a loss of lean muscle mass, therefore decreasing your RMR. Hence, the lower your RMR, the harder it’s going to be to lose any more body fat and easier to store body fat if you happen to overeat. The result is that people who use primarily cardio-based workouts and also have a poor diet frequently acquire that “skinny-fat” appearance where they have very little muscle definition coupled with excess body fat.


It is common to hear fitness professionals and medical doctors prescribe low to moderate intensity aerobic training (cardio) to people who are trying to prevent heart disease or lose weight. Most often, the recommendations constitute something along the lines of “perform 30-60 minutes of steady pace cardio 3-5 times per week maintaining your heart rate at a moderate level”. Before you just give in to this popular belief and become the “hamster on the wheel” doing endless hours of boring cardio, I’d like you to consider some recent scientific research that indicates that steady pace endurance cardio work may not be all it’s cracked up to be.


First, realize that our bodies are designed to perform physical activity in bursts of exertion followed by recovery, or stop-and-go movement instead of steady state movement. Recent research is suggesting that physical variability is one of the most important aspects to consider in your training. This tendency can be seen throughout nature as all animals demonstrate stop-and-go motion instead of steady state motion. In fact, humans are the only creatures in nature that attempt to do “endurance” type physical activities.


Most competitive sports (with the exception of endurance running or cycling) are also based on stop-and-go movement or short bursts of exertion followed by recovery. To examine an example of the different effects of endurance or steady state training versus stop-and-go training, consider the physiques of marathoners versus sprinters. Most sprinters carry a physique that is very lean, muscular, and powerful looking, while the typical dedicated marathoner is more often emaciated and sickly looking. Now which would you rather resemble?


Another factor to keep in mind regarding the benefits of physical variability is the internal effect of various forms of exercise on our body. Scientists have known that excessive steady state endurance exercise (different for everyone, but sometimes defined as greater than 60 minutes per session, most days of the week) increases free radical production in the body, can degenerate joints, reduces immune function, causes muscle wasting, and can cause a pro-inflammatory response in the body that can potentially lead to chronic diseases.


On the other hand, highly variable intensity training has been linked to increased anti-oxidant production in the body and an anti-inflammatory response, a more efficient nitric oxide response (which can encourage a healthy cardiovascular system), and an increased metabolic rate response (which can assist with weight loss). Furthermore, steady state endurance training only trains the heart at one specific heart rate range and doesn’t train it to respond to various every day stressors. On the other hand, highly variable intensity training teaches the heart to respond to and recovery from a variety of demands making it less likely to fail when you need it.


The important aspect of variable intensity training that makes it superior over steady state cardio is the recovery period in between bursts of exertion. That recovery period is crucially important for the body to elicit a healthy response to an exercise stimulus.


Another benefit of variable intensity training is that it is much more interesting and has lower drop-out rates than long boring steady state cardio programs.


To summarize, some of the potential benefits of variable intensity training compared to steady state endurance training are as follows: improved cardiovascular health, increased anti-oxidant protection, improved immune function, reduced risk for joint wear and tear, reduced muscle wasting, increased residual metabolic rate following exercise, and an increased capacity for the heart to handle life’s every day stressors. There are many ways you can reap the benefits of stop-and-go or variable intensity physical training. Wind sprints or hill sprints are the ultimate in variable intensity training and will get you ripped and muscular in no time flat. If you’re in good enough shape to sprint, always sprint instead of jogging. Trust me…your body will look much better for it! For a great finish to your weight training workouts, or for a great workout on their own, try about 6-12 all-out sprints of about 50-100 yards with 30-90 seconds rest in between.


Another great method of incorporating highly variable intensity exercise is to play sports. Most competitive sports such as football, basketball, racquetball, tennis, hockey, etc. are naturally comprised of highly variable stop-and-go motion. In addition, weight training naturally incorporates short bursts of exertion followed by recovery periods. High intensity interval training (varying between high and low intensity intervals on any piece of cardio equipment) is yet another training method that utilizes exertion and recovery periods. For example, an interval training session on the treadmill could look something like this (caution - this may be too fast for shorter individuals or if you’re not yet in good shape; adjust appropriately):

Warm-up for 3-4 minutes at a fast walk or light jog
Interval 1 - run at 8.0 mi/hr for 1 minute
Interval 2 - walk at 4.0 mi/hr for 1.5 minutes
Interval 3 - run at 10.0 mi/hr for 1 minute
Interval 4 - walk at 4.0 mi/hr for 1.5 minutes

Repeat those 4 intervals 4 times for a very intense 20-minute workout.


Hopefully this section has convinced you to focus the majority of your training on weight training and other forms of resistance training coupled with high intensity “interval type cardio” and/or sprints in your quest for losing body fat to uncover your abs. I also recommend mixing in high intensity type training such as jumping rope, boxing, a rowing machine, stair climbing, and hill running into your routine in your quest to get lean. I guarantee you that a 20-minute high intensity interval training session is much more effective than a 40-50 minute boring steady pace cardio session due to several factors discussed previously such as the residual metabolic after-burn effect, muscle retention, hormonal response, heart rate variability, etc. It will also save you time!

[AdamGH]

Thank you.
Yeah, when I first started out 6 years ago, I know I went way to hard!!!
My knees, shins, ankles, back and elbows remind me of that!

Plus, I have Hep C and one of the symptoms is joint pain......YAY!!!!

lol, well with HIIT, you are in for some fun then

[AdamGH]

It's hard for me to do certain exercises like squats. I have a herniated/degenerative L5. My chiropractor doesn't even like me to lift, but, there is no way in hell I am going to stop lifting. Tonight is a good night, I think I'll do some legs tonight.......

It is going to be trial and error for you. Just try different exercises till you find what you can do for a routine. All your exercises will be seated more than likely. You can find great exercises seated. So it is ok. Youll be missing squats, but you will have to deal with out them.

[theforce3169]

lol, well with HIIT, you are in for some fun then

Hopefully, I can take this info and somehow apply it to the elliptical machines. Running does not do well on my shins, ankles, and esp. MY BACK!

But, since it is interval training, it may be worth a shot b/c it may not be so taxing on those troubled areas.........................

Thanks

[AdamGH]

Hopefully, I can take this info and somehow apply it to the elliptical machines. Running does not do well on my shins, ankles, and esp. MY BACK!

But, since it is interval training, it may be worth a shot b/c it may not be so taxing on those troubled areas.........................

Thanks

you can apply to whatever you want. The focus is intervals between high and low intensity.

[theforce3169]

you can apply to whatever you want. The focus is intervals between high and low intensity.

The only problem is that since it is a different type of machine altogether then the intensity levels may need to be different in comparison to the treadmill. And, I know the ellipticals I use go by levels, not by mph.....

[AdamGH]

The only problem is that since it is a different type of machine altogether then the intensity levels may need to be different in comparison to the treadmill. And, I know the ellipticals I use go by levels, not by mph.....

trial and error

[Stoneco|d]

Don't do HIIT ... try light jogging (it would make your condition worse). Can you go on an elliptical? If not use the bike, just go a bit longer and you should be good. Plus make sure your workouts are high intensity and don't take too much time between sets. Just go in then out. I'd keep a record (a book) of what you lift everyday, would be very helpful. When I bulk, I always keep a book with me so I can improve my workouts every week.

[Stoneco|d]

The only problem is that since it is a different type of machine altogether then the intensity levels may need to be different in comparison to the treadmill. And, I know the ellipticals I use go by levels, not by mph.....

so you can use elliptical, good. I love going on an elliptical 30min after workout, just do that 3 or 4 times per week and you good. Ya and take it easy on the levels. I usually don't go over Level 10. Once on the bike I was going at level 15 for 1 hr straight and always ****ed up my leg. I think I pulled something and it took me a month to heal lol.

[AdamGH]

HIIT can be applied to any cardio device. Also it can be applied to jump rope . No one ever said it has to be a treadmill or sprints.

[theforce3169]

Thanks for the replies!!!!!

I am going to do a lighter cardio routine, yet more time than I am used to.

I usually do the elliptical on level 12-13 for about 20-25 minutes......

I'll drop the level to 10 and go 30-35 minutes.........

As you guys' have read my joints can start to hurt pretty badly, so the lower levels, even though for longer should be easier on them......

I would like some old-school, basic wieghtlifting "101" ideas from you two.

More precisely, when bulking, of course you wish to increase your weight over a period of time....right?

How do you do this?

I read once that if I am doing one particular muscle group....say chest and if I was doing Flat, decline, incline, and flys, with doing flat first, I would do 2 warmup sets first on flat........then go straight to my Max weight, then each proceeding set, I would drop the weight by no more than 20% per set.

Then, going to decline, since I had already warmed up, I would go to my max and once again lower the weight no more than 20% for each proceeding set, then repeat this with incline and flys as well.......

What do you guys think abou this idea?

And, what do you do?????