Alright I've done my research but still some questions if you will Please!

[jab1234]

I've got a hold of some parabolan from the other side of the pond. I'm really curious to see if this is legit, because I've read that there have been a lot of fakes floating around...

I know that test should be the base of a cycle with this, but it will only mask the effects of the tren and I'd like to keep bloat to a minimum...sooo my question is can I take HCG through the duration of my tren cycle (7 weeks at 100mg/5 days) to combat the suppressive nature of tren and not take any test?

I plan on taking Nolva for pct at 40/40/20/20 but I understand that there is some synergy between Nolva and HCG so how exactly will I take these together?

Also would anyone know (how can I put this without violating board rules)...where I could find a place to conduct some further personal research on HCG? (not sure if that would pass, my apologies if it doesn't)

On the other hand if I were to add some test into my stack, I'm thinking test e or cyp because it has a longer half-life and would allow me to take it the same day as the tren (5-7 day half life).

What I'm unclear of though is the minimum amount of test I can get away with while still counteracting the suppressive nature of tren. Also I was thinking if I go this route then running Arimidex along with the tren/test would be good to keep bloat down and to stimulate natty test production.

Which brings me to another question, as per scenario one above, can I just replace the HCG with arimidex while on a tren only cycle?

As you can see I've educated myself some more thanks to this site, but there's still a lot for me to learn.

Thx in advance

29 yrs old
5'10"
185lbs
10-12% BF (this is a guess)

[LATS60]

Sorry mate, i don't what you have been researching but it's either the wrong thing or you are seriously mis-interpreting what you are reading.
Everything you stated above is fundamentally incorrect.

[jab1234]

Sorry mate, i don't what you have been researching but it's either the wrong thing or you are seriously mis-interpreting what you are reading.
Everything you stated above is fundamentally incorrect.

care to elaborate?

[LATS60]

care to elaborate?

It would take me an hour to explain where you are going wrong, so i'll start with one at a time.
Test will not mask the tren it will compliment it, hCG will not help combat the suppresive nature of tren.

[jab1234]

It would take me an hour to explain where you are going wrong, so i'll start with one at a time.
Test will not mask the tren it will compliment it, hCG will not help combat the suppresive nature of tren.

Okay but as per my post, I want to ensure the tren is real...if I'm taking test with the tren then I wouldn't know whether the test or the tren or both is giving me the results.

the following quote is directly from the profiles on this site:

"The use of HCG will send an artificial signal to the testes (again, as if it were actually LH), thus preventing (to some degree) atrophy. It not only helps to maintain testicular size and condition but it will also help in restoring testicles back to their original size. At a time when below normal androgen levels (due to ASS use) could become costly"

This is taken from the context of using it during a cycle to retain some testicular size as well as natty test levels...

like you said, am I misinterpreting that?

[LATS60]

Okay but as per my post, I want to ensure the tren is real...if I'm taking test with the tren then I wouldn't know whether the test or the tren or both is giving me the results.

the following quote is directly from the profiles on this site:

"The use of HCG will send an artificial signal to the testes (again, as if it were actually LH), thus preventing (to some degree) atrophy. It not only helps to maintain testicular size and condition but it will also help in restoring testicles back to their original size. At a time when below normal androgen levels (due to ASS use) could become costly"

This is taken from the context of using it during a cycle to retain some testicular size as well as natty test levels...

like you said, am I misinterpreting that?

LOL, i can see this is going to be hard work, but i aint too busy today.
Believe me, you will know if the tren is working, so that part is sorted.

hCG, yes that statement is correct, but it has absolutely nothing to do with HPTA suppression, so taking hCG throught you're cycle will not cause less suppression of the HPTA, it will only stimulate the leydig cells in the testes to start producing testosterone.

[DFDub]

Have you done any previous cycles? If not, you do not want to start with tren.
I am a little confused on what your proposed cycle would be.....? Primo/Test/Tren?

[jab1234]

LOL, i can see this is going to be hard work, but i aint too busy today.
Believe me, you will know if the tren is working, so that part is sorted.

hCG, yes that statement is correct, but it has absolutely nothing to do with HPTA suppression, so taking hCG throught you're cycle will not cause less suppression of the HPTA, it will only stimulate the leydig cells in the testes to start producing testosterone.

haha thanks for the help...it's a lot of information to disseminate when reading through all of stickies and threads.

ok so point is clear, test will be taken with the tren.

As far as HPTA suppression post cycle, then I'm assuming I should also add clomid (100mg/ed, 3 weeks) as Nolva does not directly effect this?

Would arimidex be recommended during the cycle as well?

[jab1234]

Have you done any previous cycles? If not, you do not want to start with tren.
I am a little confused on what your proposed cycle would be.....? Primo/Test/Tren?

I've done cycles in the past, but mostly when I was in college 6-8 years ago. I've taken; Deca, D-Bol, sust, cyp, enanth.

My proposed cycle is

Tren 100mg/week - 7 weeks
Test e 100mg/week - 10 weeks

Arimidex? would this be recommended

PCT:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 0/100/100/50

*not sure where you got the primo from

[LATS60]

haha thanks for the help...it's a lot of information to disseminate when reading through all of stickies and threads.

ok so point is clear, test will be taken with the tren.

As far as HPTA suppression post cycle, then I'm assuming I should also add clomid (100mg/ed, 3 weeks) as Nolva does not directly effect this?

Would arimidex be recommended during the cycle as well?

Clomid, yes but no need for 100mg for 3wks, just the first wk at 100mg is enough to raise LH and FSH by as much as 50%.
You will need nolva also, as the point of these serms is to block estrogen receptors in the HPTA to fool it to tell the pituitary to start producing it's own LH and FSH.

Adex can be run at a low dose throught the cycle if you are concerned about bloat and gyno issues, but i wouldn't run it just because, i'd use it if needed.

[jab1234]

Clomid, yes but no need for 100mg for 3wks, just the first wk at 100mg is enough to raise LH and FSH by as much as 50%.
You will need nolva also, as the point of these serms is to block estrogen receptors in the HPTA to fool it to tell the pituitary to start producing it's own LH and FSH.

Adex can be run at a low dose throught the cycle if you are concerned about bloat and gyno issues, but i wouldn't run it just because, i'd use it if needed.

gyno isn't a pre-existing issue with me, but I am worried about bloat. I'm already pretty lean as it is, so holding water in my face is noticeable and wouldn't go over well at work...

So just to clarify are you saying only take clomid at 100mg/ed for one week, or to step down the dosage the following two weeks? Something more like 100/50/50?

Would 100mg/week of test just be a waste of time stacked along side the tren? If so what minimum level would you recommend?

Maybe I should've posted this in my original post, but my goal is to pack on quality lean muscle and not blow up like a fish and throw on 20-25 lbs of which is a lot of water weight. Moderate gains are what I'm looking for, hence the low dosage questions of test. And yes I understand that there are a lot of other AAS i can take that would be better suited for my goals, but I have friends that swear by tren and I wanted to give it a go.

[LATS60]

gyno isn't a pre-existing issue with me, but I am worried about bloat. I'm already pretty lean as it is, so holding water in my face is noticeable and wouldn't go over well at work...

So just to clarify are you saying only take clomid at 100mg/ed for one week, or to step down the dosage the following two weeks? Something more like 100/50/50?

Would 100mg/week of test just be a waste of time stacked along side the tren? If so what minimum level would you recommend?

Maybe I should've posted this in my original post, but my goal is to pack on quality lean muscle and not blow up like a fish and throw on 20-25 lbs of which is a lot of water weight. Moderate gains are what I'm looking for, hence the low dosage questions of test. And yes I understand that there are a lot of other AAS i can take that would be better suited for my goals, but I have friends that swear by tren and I wanted to give it a go.

Should have made that clear mate, here;s the protocol i'd recommend.
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

I'd up the test to 250mg wk min. as you have experience, this shouldn't cause much bloat ( keep diet clean, low salt, lots of water ).
What ester is you're tren?

[jab1234]

Should have made that clear mate, here;s the protocol i'd recommend.
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

I'd up the test to 250mg wk min. as you have experience, this shouldn't cause much bloat ( keep diet clean, low salt, lots of water ).
What ester is you're tren?

HexaHydroBencyl Carbonate Ester....its supposed to be from your country of location from the "dragon" company...(I didn't want to come out and state the specific company)

I don't want to end all AAS at the same time so I'm thinking to run the test a few more weeks after the tren is complete then start the pct 14 days after last test inject...sound about right?

Thanks again for the sound advice...I have a couple more months until I start up so I'll be sure to get everything in hand prior to starting

[LATS60]

HexaHydroBencyl Carbonate Ester....its supposed to be from your country of location from the "dragon" company...(I didn't want to come out and state the specific company)

I don't want to end all AAS at the same time so I'm thinking to run the test a few more weeks after the tren is complete then start the pct 14 days after last test inject...sound about right?

Thanks again for the sound advice...I have a couple more months until I start up so I'll be sure to get everything in hand prior to starting

Ah, yea i know the stuff well.
Sounds fine on the PCT start time mate.

[jab1234]

Ah, yea i know the stuff well.
Sounds fine on the PCT start time mate.

Now the tough part is not getting started too early!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karo]

I'd recommend going with Prop over Test E if you're concerned with water retention. I just finished taking Test E for the first time and I had a lot of water retention from it. I've since switched over to Prop for the last 6 weeks of my cycle and even though it's only been a week I can see a big difference already. I'm not holding anywhere near as much water.
I'd recommend going with 100mgs of Prop eod for your cycle if you want to keep the test dosage low. However I feel that 150mgs eod would be a more effective dosage.

[jab1234]

I'd recommend going with Prop over Test E if you're concerned with water retention. I just finished taking Test E for the first time and I had a lot of water retention from it. I've since switched over to Prop for the last 6 weeks of my cycle and even though it's only been a week I can see a big difference already. I'm not holding anywhere near as much water.
I'd recommend going with 100mgs of Prop eod for your cycle if you want to keep the test dosage low. However I feel that 150mgs eod would be a more effective dosage.

I read the profile on prop and it definitely says that there will be less bloat with it, is that because of the shorter ester (prop) attached to the testosterone backbone? (this doesn't really have to be answered, just thinking out loud) But to me that is counter-intuitive because then you will actually be getting more test in your system on a ml for ml level compared to cyp or enanth

Nonetheless my hesitancy would be the fact that I would have to administer a dose eod for roughly 10 weeks, that's roughly 35 shots and almost 4 bottles of prop (assuming 100/mg/ml bottle)...that could get expensive not to mention I would look like a pin cushion!! This is opposed to a single bottle of cyp/enanth (~200-250 mg/ml per bottle) that could run me the entire course and I could pin myself on the same day as tren.

I guess there are trade-offs for everything, if I want less bloat I need to go with pinning myself more often. I think I will suck it up watch the sodium intake and proper diet and just use the longer lasting esters of test

[Big]

I've done cycles in the past, but mostly when I was in college 6-8 years ago. I've taken; Deca, D-Bol, sust, cyp, enanth.

My proposed cycle is

Tren 100mg/week - 7 weeks
Test e 100mg/week - 10 weeks

Arimidex? would this be recommended

PCT:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 0/100/100/50

*not sure where you got the primo from

100mg/week? why bother?

[jab1234]

100mg/week? why bother?

Yeah LATS60 set me straight...I'm going to add 250/mg/wk of test e/cyp

[Big]

and how much tren?

[jab1234]

and how much tren?

100mg/ml every 5 days for 7 weeks

that should come to almost 150 mg/week