first post, looking for info, i have read TONS

[Thechevyman122]

so plain and simple:
this is my first post here guys, so hello..

Im a 20 (almost 21) year old guy, im in pretty good shape, pretty athletic i have gone through die hard periods and non existent periods of working out for the last 3 years. i always lose motivation because i experience absolutely no results what so ever. I have done dieting, high protein intake, creatine, all kinds of suplements you name it. So i guess now you know why im here....

here is what i would like: I want to bulk up, then eventually cut down. im 5-11 and around 165 now, i have no desired weight limit really, just want to bulk up, and eventually regain some definition. Im not into body buiding or competing, im just looking to get stronger, fill out my clothes a little better and eventually have a pretty good beach body. I would like to start with only 1cycle..(first is called a test as i have read) then do a pct. I think to cut, Clen sounds good for me. Overall im open to anything and everythign as far as advise goes, i would PREFER to keep in intaken orally, whether liquid or pill form, but i am willing to make adustments.

Here is a pic, what do yall recomend, please cut the abbreviations as it takes me forever to search them all thanks.

[G4R]

so plain and simple:
this is my first post here guys, so hello..

Im a 20 (almost 21) year old guy, im in pretty good shape, pretty athletic i have gone through die hard periods and non existent periods of working out for the last 3 years. i always lose motivation because i experience absolutely no results what so ever. I have done dieting, high protein intake, creatine, all kinds of suplements you name it. So i guess now you know why im here....

here is what i would like: I want to bulk up, then eventually cut down. im 5-11 and around 165 now, i have no desired weight limit really, just want to bulk up, and eventually regain some definition. Im not into body buiding or competing, im just looking to get stronger, fill out my clothes a little better and eventually have a pretty good beach body. I would like to start with only 1cycle..(first is called a test as i have read) then do a pct. I think to cut, Clen sounds good for me. Overall im open to anything and everythign as far as advise goes, i would PREFER to keep in intaken orally, whether liquid or pill form, but i am willing to make adustments.

Here is a pic, what do yall recomend, please cut the abbreviations as it takes me forever to search them all thanks.

Ok, first off, IMO you are still too young, your natural test levels are very high right now.

Second, your 5'11 165lbs. This is where you need to start. You need a good bulking diet first. You can put on another 40+ pounds naturally through a good diet (which we can help you set up).

Third, Clen? Why do you think Clen is good for you? It is used by us mainly as a fat burner, and your BF% can't be too high. Stay away from that right now.

Going back to my second point, what does your daily diet look like? In detail.

Example daily diet:

Meal 1
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Meal 2
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Meal 3
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Meal 4
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Meal 5
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Meal 6
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)
xxxxxxx ( Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg)

Totals: Cal xxg, Fat xxg, Protein xxg, Carbs xxg

[Thechevyman122]

no no what i was saying is that i have read alot and the only really clear info i have gotten is clen is the right fat burner for me..when i get to that point, after a good bulking session. Being that it is summer time and im working crazy hours, my meal schedule isnt the best it could be. I understand 99 percent of the time diet is ultra important, but it my case it just cant be. last year i lived at a place in college station, tx (i go to a&m) where i had an unlimited meal plan. I made myself eat 4+ times a day. whatever meal was being served plus 1 piece of chicken breast every meal (excluding breakfast where i had a protein shake) I did this nearly doubling my protein and carb intake from my normal diet for 10weeks, working out faithfully every day(on a bulking program called 5x5) I gained around 7lbs. and hardly any stronger most of it went to my face, and my thighs. I looked exactly the same body wise. During the summer i work for a pizza chain doing construction work, most of time is on the road, most of the time i eat pizza cause its free, my metabolism has got to be nearly as fast as possible. i eat soooo much absolutely awful garbage for my body and dont gain a lb. Im researching now, for when i will be able to start towards the middle of august when i will be back on a good diet. I honestly cant tell you the details your looking for sorry. i will say i eat ALOT of chicken (its fairly cheap) and i drink 2 protein shakes a day..protein, natural pb, oats, and milk. I also have some green mag creatin.

Sorry if thats not any help.

[G4R]

Ok, well based on what you just said, your diet is your main problem. Bulking training program or not, if you are not eating the right foods, then it will gain you almost nothing.

All I can say right now is that if you want the results you are looking for, you have to find time to eat right (around 6 meals a day) of a good bulking diet, not just random foods that are high in protein. Granted, metabolism plays a part in your results, but it is possible to convince your body to accept what you are eating, and turn it into mass.

[Reed]

Agreed by the looks of things you have yet to begin a diet or training regiment. Its best to utilize and learn the basics first of dieting and training then when you have done all that you could start to implement drugs once you reach a respectable level of strength and weight naturally.

For now its best to figure out a training routine and diet, give that a go for a long while (more than a year) so you will have time to learn how your body responds to certain food and training.

[Reed]

If you can't put in time with the diet and cardio do you believe clen will magically burn the fat. Sorry you'll be in for a big surprise

All the drugs will mean nothing with out diet and cardio for cutting. Food is the most powerful drug one can utilize to burn fat, trust me I know this from first hand experience. No drug will make up for it.

Also remember when cutting you aren't going to CUT into a muscular physique. You have to have the muscle underneath in order for it to show.

Your eating the wrong foods to gain muscle, I once to thought all this about a fast metabolism but if you SERIOUSLY can't gain a pound eating egg whites, 95% lean red meat, chicken, brown rice, sweet potatoes, oats, fish oil, flax seed oil, etc then you have a thyroid disorder and the LAST thing you need to do is implement a drug that may have adverse side effects. The fact of the matter is no one does not respond to food no matter how outstanding you believe your metabolism is.

[Thechevyman122]

im sorry im being unclear, and i appreciate yall sooo must thanks a ton. here are the misconceptions im portraying:

1.) im not planning on taking clen for atleast 12 months from now, im simply stating that this seems like a cutting tool that looks right for me..WHEN i get there.

2) my diet right now is awful, ill be the first to admit, i wouldnt wast the time, money or possibly harm on a cycle or test, on this diet. Im simply starting the researching process so that when the time comes i will be informed.

3.) last year when i was actually working my ass off to gain, i was following everything layed out by my roomate who is a body builder..he is one of the most self taught and enforced people i know, he had our diets pretty well layed out, as well as taught me the workout i was doing. no it may not have been the best diet, but i promise you i put way to much effort into it and the gym to experience the results i did.

4.) i want to get bigger, and i would rather not spend the money on expensive steriods and risk certain aspects of my body, but as stated i have gone through pretty extensive periods of intense working and better than average dieting with no results, and it is very discouraging. I find now when i go to the gym i am not giving it a 100 percent, becuase of the misconception it does nothing.

5.) i believe that throwing in something mild (obviously since its my first time ever) to a GOOD diet, layed out by yall, and a good work out plan, also from your guidance will help me a ton..not only chemically but mentally. the power of placebo is pretty incredible.

sorry again for any misconceptions i might have made.

so i guess what im asking is, when that time comes what is good for my body type and goals. I guess honestly my eventual goal is 5-11 180-200 i dont want to look fat or unnaturally large. I just want to put on some lbs, when i get to a strenght level im happy with (i believe will be after one cycle) i will go throught the pct, and eventually go to a good cutting program. eventually with a similar body fat % that i have now, maybe a little less.

any other questions?
thanks again guys.

[Reed]

Well what else can we say to make it clearer. You have the misconceptions believing that a drug will make up for you lack of dieting and hard training.

How does your body gain muscle, by getting stronger each work out so that you break down the muscles and supply the proper amount of food for your body to reconstruct, the drugs just accelerate this process. You however believe it will do the work for you. You'll mistake water weight for muscle and once PCT time comes around say good bye to that weight.

Seriously think about this is like first grade science class stuff, the energy you get for your food is from food and the way you gain weight is by supplying more of the necessary clean food in order to gain muscle. Do you think you'll be able to hold on to 180-200lbs at your height with that diet. Come on now, you go to college thats easy to figure

You should list the routine your bodybuilder friend had for you, both training and diet. Are you doing full rep squats, deadlifts, not just training chest and arms 3x a weak. Are you eating a ample supply of protein, clean carbs, and healthy fats.

I bet if you head down to the diet section and look into the bulking threads and get some ideas and post a diet we can help you tweak it. Also look into the training threads and we'll help you tweak it as well.

You're putting the cart before the horse. You need to do the work with the basics first as I PROMISE you calculate a diet and get a proper training program you will get to your goal of 180-200lbs without drugs. Hell I am your same height and was able to do get to 210-215 without them, and guess what its proper nutrition and proper training first THEN drugs. Other wise you'll be just wasting your time and health

[Thechevyman122]

i respect yall so much, but i promise you, ever personal trainer i have talked to, every forum i ever posted on/read I am like a odd one. i will try to post up a diet that i was on, its just kinda hard since it was a year ago...

But i do understand what you are saying, but i promise you there is no way in hell i could get to 180-200, diet only. I will try to go back on the diet, and workout harder. I just wanted to accelerate my results, results that i have never really gotten before. thats why i was looking into something else. but if this isnt for me, even a few months down the road, that im glad i met someone to steer me in the right direction so fast. Thanks again guys, i appreciate it.

[Reed]

i respect yall so much, but i promise you, ever personal trainer i have talked to, every forum i ever posted on/read I am like a odd one. i will try to post up a diet that i was on, its just kinda hard since it was a year ago...

But i do understand what you are saying, but i promise you there is no way in hell i could get to 180-200, diet only. I will try to go back on the diet, and workout harder. I just wanted to accelerate my results, results that i have never really gotten before. thats why i was looking into something else. but if this isnt for me, even a few months down the road, that im glad i met someone to steer me in the right direction so fast. Thanks again guys, i appreciate it.

Of course not you gotta train hard and get strong so you have the muscle. Hell I was EXACTLY where you were in 2003, age 19, 150lbs all that. I didn't believe it either but I took the time to train right and diet right.

Little did I know I could achieve so much without drugs so don't sell your self short my man, you may not know what you are capable of until you actually do things right.

Again post the diet and training, I think maybe another misconception you are having is that you think this will be a short process of achieving that "dream" physique you have in your mind at 180-200lbs. Sorry my friend but the physiques we all look at in the mags etc have take 5,10,15+ years to develop. So realize to maybe achieve what you have in your mind will be a lifestyle type of investment.

We are here to help, so come back soon, with a diet and training regiment and we all will do our best to help you get on the right track but remember in the end YOU will have to do the work but if you seriously want it you WILL get there

[Immortal Soldier]

Diet is everything man, what they say is the truth. I am 21 years old going to FSU, and my diet has to be perfect to maintain my build. People see me and recognize my body instantly and you know its all good, but they don't see the dedication that goes behind it. Even with steroids, if your diet is not good you wont get where you want to be, there are people on here who are their 6th or 7th cycle and there body is NOT EVEN CLOSE to being what it could be. I know dudes who are big and are natural and then there are these guys who have taken every steroid know to man and are barely bigger than the average gym goer.

Let me tell you something, imagine this:

You do your first cycle you gain 20lbs (most people do their first cycle), anyway you feel good you come off your are going to most likely be lean unless you eat shitty food. So don't think "oh I have clen to burn the fat off" because chances are you aren't going to gain much fat on your first cycle, infact you will probably lose some and get leaner.

But here is the bummer, once you go back to your job in the summer (or once your diet starts to slip because of partying/studying/whatever) your gains will start to disappear because having a muscular body sucks because to maintain it you have to have a solid diet.

Once your diet starts going downhill the body compensates by destroying muscle for energy (which it LOVES to do because the body absolutely HATES extra muscle it goes against its evolutionary principles requires more food, energy, etc.)

I started working out at 17 years old 6'0 134lbs, I was a skinny depressed kid and in 4 months I was able to get up to 174lbs, it shocked everyone. There was not a person who believed I didn't use steroids and those included the people I trained with. I mean I was so stupid then I didn't even know what steroids were besides what the media said let alone where to get them. LOL I thought taking NO xplode would make me HUGE, and I barely had any cash for that. So I joined a bodybuilding forum and realized how much diet was important, so I ate and ate and ate and ATE till I felt like throwing up at times then as time went on I started to narrow down my diet and tweak it. I continued to grow and didn't touch steroids until my current age because I fell victim to the thinking that I couldn't grow anymore without artificial hormones. Which is such a shame because this is not what I would ever have thought I would become when I first started working out.

But far be it from me to say your too young, I speaking from this standpoint would advise against it, but where I go to school steroids use is rampant and alot of the times it is not done correctly at all. But I am not going to sit here and baby you and say your too young or whatever, I am not your dad or your mom. You're an adult so its your time to make a smart decision.

[Reed]

double post

[lovbyts]

A LOT of bodybuilders tend to forget what it's like to be someone smaller or a beginner and they over work or over train you so no matter what you are taking in you tend to burn it off, soft of. I'm sure your intake was still not enough but next time dont over train. Stick to the basics, train 5x a week, 1+ hr a day. make sure you get good rest and good diet or it will all be for nothing again.