Ok, time to clear the air on AAS use for those under 25

[Reed]

interesting debate

[DEVLDOG]

interesting debate

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

[Phate]

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

i'm sure if ya'll finished a whole keg of beer you two would agree on anything

[Reed]

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

[marcus300]

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

[Reed]

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

I know that its extremely extremely small and you're right but they didn't get to the top heap without taking the risk.

And I know we all wanna say that just look at things to grow but its simply not true they all worked extremely hard to achieve what they did its just their genetics allowed them to make it that far while others can do the same and never get there.

Hell my personal opinion is why do you people cycle if they aren't competitive athletes in the first place? Why take the risk at all?

[marcus300]

the body is more resilient then most think,for all the people out there juicing or who have juiced,the % in actual "horror" cases is low,there millions of ppl juicing in this world and once every 10yrs some ex footbal player or wrestler dies its blamed on steroid use and then the media jumps all over it and has ppl believing that one anadrol will kill your liver...what a joke!!.im more scared of killing my liver taking tylenol then with steroids

goodluck to you

I agree there are many horror stories about people juicing and it killing them but whats that got to do with what we are discussing?

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I dont think you know me at all, ive written many articles on high dose/burst cycles, infact i am from the Borreson days of high busrt cycles, check out my thread.

I am not into advicing newbies to cycle at such a young age because of what ive seen first hand,written and many many threads on the internet, it isnt worth debating because its plain to see, enjoy your keg buddy!

[DEVLDOG]

I agree there are many horror stories about people juicing and it killing them but whats that got to do with what we are discussing?


I dont think you know me at all, ive written many articles on high dose/burst cycles, infact i am from the Borreson days of high busrt cycles, check out my thread.

I am not into advicing newbies to cycle at such a young age because of what ive seen first hand,written and many many threads on the internet, it isnt worth debating because its plain to see, enjoy your keg buddy!

because you write "articles " on steroid boards doesnt make you an authority on anything,thats no difference then some skinny chemist doing research in a liabrary and reposting written information!! have you ever used yourself to get the "facts" thats what Im talking about,"real life experiences" no re cycled information adlibed into your own version,that means nothing to anybody but the uninformed

"short burst cycles" not even interested in that and definately not what i was referring to,and would never suggest that to anyone,a waste IMHO of gear and $$.

Ill enjoy that keg buddy,you keep reading internet propoganda and spreading it around with your "articles",when you want the truth,you just come ask,its really not rocket science and isnt as complex as some try and make it out to be.

[marcus300]

because you write "articles " on steroid boards doesnt make you an authority on anything,thats no difference then some skinny chemist doing research in a liabrary and reposting written information!! have you ever used yourself to get the "facts" thats what Im talking about,"real life experiences" no re cycled information adlibed into your own version,that means nothing to anybody but the uninformed

"short burst cycles" not even interested in that and definately not what i was referring to,and would never suggest that to anyone,a waste IMHO of gear and $$.

Ill enjoy that keg buddy,you keep reading internet propoganda and spreading it around with your "articles",when you want the truth,you just come ask,its really not rocket science and isnt as complex as some try and make it out to be.

Come on what are you on about with this bull. Ive got over 20 odd years of personal experience, again you know nothing about me, ive ran very long cycle at high dose and various other protocols and i found what worked for me, which was short burst cycles, i write about my experiences and the clients ive had over the years, i do read studies but with every study comes another saying something completely different, real life experiences count for alot and if you knew me you would understand that's what i am about.

Some of your claims are total bull in my opinion but again that's just an opinion, i would say staying on for 4 years with no intention of turning pro is stupid, also running slin for so long, i would say your advice is very dangerous to to this newbie board but again everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's whats sop good about these boards, but to get back on topic i wouldn't advice any young guy to start cycling when his own hormonal system hasn't fully developed

[DEVLDOG]

Come on what are you on about with this bull. Ive got over 20 odd years of personal experience, again you know nothing about me, ive ran very long cycle at high dose and various other protocols and i found what worked for me, which was short burst cycles, i write about my experiences and the clients ive had over the years, i do read studies but with every study comes another saying something completely different, real life experiences count for alot and if you knew me you would understand that's what i am about.

Some of your claims are total bull in my opinion but again that's just an opinion, i would say staying on for 4 years with no intention of turning pro is stupid, also running slin for so long, i would say your advice is very dangerous to to this newbie board but again everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's whats sop good about these boards, but to get back on topic i wouldn't advice any young guy to start cycling when his own hormonal system hasn't fully developed

we can agree to disagree then, your 20 yrs experience and my 22yrs experience adds up to alot of experience. I know what I used to do and I know what works for me and what works for alot of people I have trained with over the yrs.I am not in no way reccomending anybody do what I did and do.I never said that.I am giving nothing but the truth as there are too many people on here that lie and tell stories and mis lead the uninformed.

believe what you want about me but most of my trials and errors are documented right here on the board over the last 5 yrs,just search my name and slin and Igf.

running the slin for 17months may have been reckless but there was no other way for me to determine what effects it really had.
i ran it with high doses,low doses,with igf and ran it by itself. all that takes times, 17 months later I cn honestly tell everyone it is worthless,,theres other ways to stimulate nutrient uptake if thats what ppl are after with it, otherwise I have documented and determined it was good for a 5lb gain in mass and nothing more,can get that from taking creatine and not haveing to worry about going hypo for 2 hrs after wards. I suffered no after effects and may have possible helped other who thought of using it because they believed like I did before using it that it was this miricle compound,the missing piece.....so say what you want man,Im fine with what I have used. I spent alot of $$, wasted alot of $$ if I knew 22yrs ago what i know now,i would have saved a ton of time and $$


again,we will agree to disagree and I'll leave it at that