Ok, time to clear the air on AAS use for those under 25

[Juice Authority]

This site is a newbie magnet. I'm now convinced of that. Anyway, w/r/t AAS I know you won't take the advice of someone who has been there and done that but let me share my experience anyway.

I'm 36 and I first starting messing around with AAS at 17. I didn't know any better and even if I did I probably wouldn't have listened anyway. If you're between the ages of 18-22 you're at peak testosterone. Enjoy it because it doesn't last.

Using exogenous testosterone when you're in your prime development years 18-25 only serves to shut down your natural levels of testosterone in your 30s. Think about that. Instead of being a TRT/HRT candidate at 55 you can and will shorten that timeframe by 15-20 years if you abuse or misuse it. Is it worth it? If you're young (under 25) and don't plan to compete professionally in BBing give that some serious thought and consideration. Your actions today affect your tomorrow but who thinks about that? I know I didn't.

[romo6]

Yes,this is true.

[seriousmass]

This site is a newbie magnet. I'm now convinced of that. Anyway, w/r/t AAS I know you won't take the advice of someone who has been there and done that but let me share my experience anyway.

I'm 36 and I first starting messing around with AAS at 17. I didn't know any better and even if I did I probably wouldn't have listened anyway. If you're between the ages of 18-22 you're at peak testosterone. Enjoy it because it doesn't last.

Using exogenous testosterone when you're in your prime development years 18-25 only serves to shut down your natural levels of testosterone in your 30s. Think about that. Instead of being a TRT/HRT candidate at 55 you can and will shorten that timeframe by 15-20 years if you abuse or misuse it. Is it worth it? If you're young (under 25) and don't plan to compete professionally in BBing give that some serious thought and consideration. Your actions today affect your tomorrow but who thinks about that? I know I didn't.

I thought that was probably the most important point to emphasize.

Good story though J.A.

[G4R]

Let me help out by showing everyone some great links to support your thread.....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=15197

and this one....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post4316957
^^^Starting at post #1 obviously

[hankdiesel]

Are you on hrt now? What did you early cycles look like?

[TITANIUM]

It doesn't matter what his cycles looked like.He's obviously screwed his HPTA up, due to the fact of running gear to early.I hear you bro, and respect this post.Problem is, these kids don't listen.I guess it's our job to try to discourage early use or AAS abuse.

[KimboHalfSlice]

Here's a question that will probably get a few condescending responses:

Is it really that big a deal to f*** up your HPTA?

From what I understand, it just means you've to take a shot of Sustanon once a month. Given that I'm currently taking shots of Sustanon every 3 days, every month doesn't seem like too bad of an inconvenience.

And as everyone says, whether you use steroids or not, you're gonna end up with a low testosterone level when you're older, so all you're doing is bringing a problem sooner.

I have to say though, one shot per month wouldn't be a big deal at all for me.

[Papa Smurf]

Here's a question that will probably get a few condescending responses:

Is it really that big a deal to f*** up your HPTA?

From what I understand, it just means you've to take a shot of Sustanon once a month. Given that I'm currently taking shots of Sustanon every 3 days, every month doesn't seem like too bad of an inconvenience.

And as everyone says, whether you use steroids or not, you're gonna end up with a low testosterone level when you're older, so all you're doing is bringing a problem sooner.

I have to say though, one shot per month wouldn't be a big deal at all for me.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM....... Were to begin!

TRT is NOT a once a month shot my friend! If you knew anything about Test Esters at all you wouldnt make that statement and Sustanon, dont get me started.

TRT/HRT is all about getting and keeping a NORMAL test level in your system.
Most doctors have you inject once every 2 weeks. This will cause your levels to peak and valley and its like riding an emotional rollercoaster. Most of us shot our TRT dose once a week to keep levels stable.

Getting older doesnt mean you will need replacement therapy at all. Lots of older men have no low test issues at all. They are lucky. TRT is for life. Sticking a needle in my ass once a week from now on is not the retirement I had in mind. But...... it does work, and Im glad I found out about it.

And YES...... Its a REALLY BIG DEAL to F**KUP your HPTA. Unless of course you enjoy walking around with a limp dick for the rest of your life!

[seriousmass]

while I see what your trying to say here,it just isnt fact and 100%true. I agree one should "probably" wait until they peaked naturally before ever juicing but who wants to wait that long...really?it all comes down to being smart. and yes there is an inherited risk with what we do,before you even start you need ot accept it or find something else to make you happy.

DevilDog, I completely agree with you. It's actually refreshing to see a VET, who can relate, and understands that the vast majority of AAS users do not want to max out their natural potential, and then juice. For most people the concept of getting to 200 pounds naturally and then juicing is comical.

And YES...... Its a REALLY BIG DEAL to F**KUP your HPTA. Unless of course you enjoy walking around with a limp dick for the rest of your life!

The problem is that their is so much wrong info out their. PapaSmurf, I respect your passion regarding TRT, but honestly, you portray it completely wrong. Do you walk around with a limp dick on TRT? -- no. (unless on deca, etc).... so let's not exaggerate the truth here..

As previously stated, the worst thing you can do your body is damage your HPTA during ages (18 - 22).... but IMO, it's is NOT through just using steroids, that is through using steroids ABUSIVELY / INCORRECTLY. Therefore, it is truly my belief that if we at least educate people on the topic, and teach them how to properly run a cycle, less people will go out and run Deca only cycles.

[Dukkit]

*sigh*

[KimboHalfSlice]

Cool, I get ya. I suppose that's another reason to do a 12-week cycle instead of 15 weeks (I'm still not decided on how long I'll stay on Sustanon).

[Hazard]

Good post JA..... I myself started early..... i'm 25 right now LOL. I trusted opinions from guys who were in amateur bodybuilding..... guys who were in their 30's..... big..... ripped. I was told 10 weeks of Deca - 250mg's/wk would be awesome for me. No mention of PCT..... no mention of deca d*ck......

The people on this site pointed me in the right direction in my early days here..... I'm thankful for that. I don't have libido issue right now but it's almost as if i can feel that i'm going to. One of the main effects i've noticed from cycling from 18-22 years old was that i used to be able to go 4 rounds with a girl.... no problem. Now.... once i get the rocks off - i'm screwd for atleast an hour or two LOL..... there is no round two.

again..... good post..... I hope some of the young guys listen. All we can do is lead the horse to the water..... not make it drink.....

~Haz~

[nilrac]

I was told 10 weeks of Deca - 250mg's/wk would be awesome for me. No mention of PCT..... no mention of deca d*ck......
~Haz~

You did 10wks of Deca only? Bad experience?

[Hazard]

You did 10wks of Deca only? Bad experience?

Definately not a GOOD experience..... i'll tell you that. I didn't know any better..... and to be honest..... at that time (out of highschool) i thought steroids put size on you if you took em and worked out...... not necessarily from your diet. I was young..... still immature..... and all I wanted was a body no woman could resist. Steroids were the ticket...... so it seemed.

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

In my honest opinion.... if your 18 years old..... 170lbs..... 6'0" - you have NO BUSINESS touching steroids. If someone like that was anywhere near ready for steroids they'd be over 200lbs. All this tells me is that they don't have all their ducks in a row..... the diet is off..... their training split could be off..... they don't know their body yet. This is where things go wrong.....

~Haz~

[seriousmass]

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

Well said.

[Juice Authority]

I think the main point to this thread is to get the young guys to open up their eyes and understand that while you can take steroids for a long portion of your life and walk away perfectly fine..... there is DEFINATELY a risk of putting exogenous hormones into your body. If you're going to start young..... you better know how to use steroids and not abuse them.

That was the sole purpose of this thread. If you ask 'most' people in their mid to late 30s that started cycling at an early age 'most' will tell you that knowing what they know now they would have waited. Hindsight is always 20/20 but unfortuately 'most' people have to learn through their own experience.

[nilrac]

In my honest opinion.... if your 18 years old..... 170lbs..... 6'0" - you have NO BUSINESS touching steroids. If someone like that was anywhere near ready for steroids they'd be over 200lbs. All this tells me is that they don't have all their ducks in a row..... the diet is off..... their training split could be off..... they don't know their body yet. This is where things go wrong.....
~Haz~

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids, as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.

Just my two. Peace.

[Matt]

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids, as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.

Just my two. Peace.

Very well stated, however ive not seen many people on here being told that they must be 200lbs low bf before they should cycle.

I have seen the thread that Big uses alot and im sure the title is "If your 5'10 and under 160lbs then your diet sucks", I agree to some degree with this statement.

Time and time again ive seen people ask for a first cycle plan and when asked for stats they reply, 5'10, 6' ect with a body weight of 145lbs, they claim to be on a great diet but when their diet is posted its horrible.
Their eating between 2000 and 2500 cals a day.

I think the problem is that alot of people want to use steroids as an alternative to eating correctly, (the lazy option). Again imo it comes back to the age thing, most of these guy's that see steroids as an alternative tend to be between the ages of 17/22....

[Hazard]

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids, as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.

Just my two. Peace.

Yes there are exceptions to the 200lb rule of thumb i stated.... there are exceptions with everything. If your 6'0 185lbs...... been training for 10 years...... something is off if your goal is to get big. Christ.... I was 6'1" 175lbs wet in highschool..... i didn't know a thing about dieting and I STILL got to 200lbs before my 1st cycle.

Is this the case for everyone..... no. It's a general "rule of thumb" I use to help guide people in the right direction. Each individual person is different and their genetics certainly play a role in what they can attain naturally. I probably should have been more clear in that 1st statement LOL.....

~Haz~

[Juice Authority]

Firstly, I appreciate the response. Secondly, I agree that an individual should maximise their training naturally before even contemplating gear. And then they should do alot of research into the subject.

The only other point I'd make though, is this idea that everybody has to be atleast 200Lbs naturally before they should touch gear. That seems to be the general rule of thumb on this forum, however, alot of people are just never going to attain that kind of lean weight, naturally.

Although I am a firm believer of lifestyle affecting who we become mentally and physically, and diet being a huge part of that, we can't avoid the fact that genetics also do contribute to the end result.

So to say that somebody HAS to be 200Lbs, low bf % NATURAL, before touching gear, to me, seems unrealistic and maybe even a little silly. It depends on the individual, hell even their basic height! And I highly doubt that the majority of users on this forum had a lean, natural base of 200Lbs before deciding to juice. Most people probably decide to juice because they are nowhere near 200Lbs natty...

So my point, I guess... if you are 5ft 10', 185Lbs, great natural base with low BF%... then by the rule of thumb on this forum, you are not ready to take gear, just because of your overall poundage. I don't agree. I do agree though, that age is a very important aspect of deciding when to take steroids, as is general health (BF% etc, how long you've trained, etc etc etc). 18 years to me, is too young. 25... much more acceptable.
Just my two. Peace.

Excellent point. Completely agree. I'm barely in the 200 pound club right now.

[DEVLDOG]

while I see what your trying to say here,it just isnt fact and 100%true. I agree one should "probably" wait until they peaked naturally before ever juicing but who wants to wait that long...really?I was 12 when I started working out regularly

I too started using when I was 17, Im 39 and still use, I have 5 kids, from 19 to 6 months old,I came off for each kid and was able to knock up my wife no problems,so you cant just throw a "blanket" statement out there that says if you do this,this will happen!!
theres alot of other factors you have to consider also
-did you "cycle"(and I hate that word) correctly
-did you do proper pct when required
-and genetically we are al pre disposed to certain things in life we can not change, for you it may be low test levels? who knows.

I personally have been on for 4 yrs straight now with the only break coming 2months before I concieved my last child,then right back on,it all comes down to being smart. and yes there is an inherited risk with what we do,before you even start you need ot accept it or find something else to make you happy.


BTW, this is just my opinion and I dont condone the use of AAS to anyone that is gonna blame medical issues they may have later on in life from use.that goes without saying

[marcus300]

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

[Matt]

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

100% agreed..

[seriousmass]

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

[Phate]

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

so you agree that it can damage HPTA, thank you for agreeing, no matter how you slice it it's a risk to a MAJOR body system, if i told you taking testosterone had a chance of damaging brain function before a certain age would you take it, only if you were extremely immature and irresponsible, so what's so different about this? yes, life goals need to be assessed but as you've said, most people here aren't using to compete so why not wait a little while, what do they have to lose?

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

bold

[marcus300]

First of all, you grew up in a completely different time-period. The internet wasn't even invented probably when you began cycling. The newfound spread of info has allowed for people to at least get SOLID information on how to run a proper cycle, while doing the least amount of damage to their HPTA / bodies.

Moreover, when looking at the "experiences of bodybuilders" you have to take into account the fact that these guys are not running normal Test-E cycles. They are stacking TONS of compounds, at generally high dosages, and for extremely prolonged periods of time. SO YES! of course they will have damaged their body in the long run. I dunno.. just my 0.02

Ive no idea what your talking about ! high dose! where did that come from?

Guys who damage their own system tend to do one or two compounds because they are new user's and i am not just talking about guys yrs ago, just 3 months ago i know one guy who started HRT at the age of 23yrs old because he started to young so, you believe what you like but pls do research and it will become a different picture for you,

[DEVLDOG]

I don't agree!, using to young can have a serious effect on your HPTA, ive seen that many times over the years with guys who are on HRT in their 20's it can't be wrong, look at the data, check the studies because they are out there.

Shutting down your own system before its completely functional is asking for trouble, there are risk's and if you want to play with them thats your choice, I also know a couple of guys who have no trouble and started very young but the majority do and the risk is in that corner.

My god its risky when your HPTA is full functional at the age of 25yrs, just look at how many threads there are for starters asking for help in this area, it cant be dismissed, read up and educate and cycle as healthy as possible, if you want to run the risk of damage to your HPTA thats your choice but to say it isn't true is completely stupid IMHO.

You can debate all night long, but thats my opinion after yrs of training and seeing what Ive seen, pls do research in this area, read the studies,reports and all the papers but most of all look at the real world experiences of bodybuilders and see if there is a risk or not, infact its laughable to say there isn't.

Like i said brother,its not 100% correct. its isnt as simple as if you do this,this will happen. if you start using gear at age ...whatever...15,16,17..etc. that doesnt mean you will automatically be shut down forever.I am living proof of this.so to make that statement is stupid.IMHO


do I know ppl who have developed issues?? ABSOLUTELY, I have a close personal friend who beat out Ron Coleman in the 90's at the olympia,he is on the waitng list for a liver transplant as we speak, these are the minority,not the majority

AGAIN,if you want to play you have to be willing to accept the risk and consiquences that go along with it,I feel sorry for no one who chooses to do this,because its all voluntary,no one made anyone stick a needle in their ass.yes,its that simple.

[marcus300]

Like i said brother,its not 100% correct. its isnt as simple as if you do this,this will happen. if you start using gear at age ...whatever...15,16,17..etc. that doesnt mean you will automatically be shut down forever.I am living proof of this.so to make that statement is stupid.IMHO


do I know ppl who have developed issues?? ABSOLUTELY, I have a close personal friend who beat out Ron Coleman in the 90's at the olympia,he is on the waitng list for a liver transplant as we speak, these are the minority,not the majority

AGAIN,if you want to play you have to be willing to accept the risk and consiquences that go along with it,I feel sorry for no one who chooses to do this,because its all voluntary,no one made anyone stick a needle in their ass.yes,its that simple.

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

[DEVLDOG]

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

the body is more resilient then most think,for all the people out there juicing or who have juiced,the % in actual "horror" cases is low,there millions of ppl juicing in this world and once every 10yrs some ex footbal player or wrestler dies its blamed on steroid use and then the media jumps all over it and has ppl believing that one anadrol will kill your liver...what a joke!!.im more scared of killing my liver taking tylenol then with steroids

goodluck to you

[Papa Smurf]

1) Yes seriousmass, I am very passionate about TRT and tryin to keep some of these youngins from making the same mistakes alot of guys on HRT/TRT did years ago when Moses was a baby and the internet wasnt around.
Thats what makes me even MORE pissed off! All this free info at your finger tips and still they are tryin to screw themselves up for life.

Oh..... and the limp dick comment seems to get their attention the fastest!

2) Devil: I glad things are going well for you so far. But I have ta say bro, at 39, you are by no means outta the woods. My low test was not discovered until I was 45. So FYI! Start losing the drive, gaining some fat, losing focus.
Never no?

3) Marcus: Thanks for the help! Ole Papa Smurf is going thru some rough stuff right now and I need all the friends I can get, and right now, all of you guys on here are about all I have right now!

[DEVLDOG]

1)


2) Devil: I glad things are going well for you so far. But I have ta say bro, at 39, you are by no means outta the woods. My low test was not discovered until I was 45. So FYI! Start losing the drive, gaining some fat, losing focus.
Never no?

!

been training consistantly for 27yrs now,wont ever lose the drive or desire.

could also fall in the bath tub tonite and die,i dont walk around worrying about tomorrow,it may never come.

sorry about your troubles though,goodluck to you

[seriousmass]

I didnt say it will results in damage everytime, re-read what i said, there is a huge risk it will !! but the majority swings in the direction it does and thats by experiences from many people and various studies. simply saying I HAVENT doesnt mean it doesnt and i also know a few who it hasnt touched in a bad way but the majority, is far ahead that it does.

There is a risk and its common sense !

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

lol... yah, basically this is what it boils down to:

a.) is taking AAS at a young age a risk - Yes. It's undeniably a massive risk.

b.) can you do AAS without doing permanent damage to your body - Yes.

.... Marcus, I dunno if I should save this for PM.. but I'll say it...

I decided to get X-Rays done about 2 weeks ago. (I wanted to see if my growth plates have fused yet). After 2 cycles, at the age of 21, my growth plates have not completely fused closed yet. My doctor said they have regressed; however, they are not completely closed.

^^ I thought you'd be pretty interested in that. People always say you will never develop further after using AAS... but not so much apparently.

[seriousmass]

Your introducing artificial hormones into a body what hasn't fully develop its own hormonal system yet, what do you really think is going to happen? your risk! best of luck

ummm... I'd say... you'll shut down your test production... then your body will grow... and then you'll recover...

I think it's funny how no one EVER mentions the fact that it is PROVEN that you can recover your natty test production the younger you are.

[Reed]

interesting debate

[DEVLDOG]

interesting debate

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

[Phate]

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

i'm sure if ya'll finished a whole keg of beer you two would agree on anything

[Reed]

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

[marcus300]

I am with you on this one.

Though I really truly feel people should attempt to get as far as they can naturally, like a respectable weight and lifts then cycle. This is my opinion however. I try to subscribe to the hard work ethic old school training.

So i believe it depends on a persons goals in life at a young age, do they want to be a true athlete (bodybuilding, powerlifting, football, baseball) or are they just trying to look at the beach and at the club?

Arnold, Shawn Ray, Lee Priest, all started at a young age and I can not down their decisions as look at the greatness they achieved, did they make the right decision, seems they did.

Being at a young age I think one can base their decision around where they are at in their development as a bodybuilder before they cycle. Who wants to be a weakling and on cycle ya know. I'd be embarrassed personally, ha

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

[Reed]

Have you any idea what the % is of being in the top ten BB's are? these guys had genetics what are outstanding and only need to look at an apple to grow. Also the guys you mentioned are on HRT now for life because of starting so young, like i said it can go on and on but the risk is there and its high, your decision!

I know that its extremely extremely small and you're right but they didn't get to the top heap without taking the risk.

And I know we all wanna say that just look at things to grow but its simply not true they all worked extremely hard to achieve what they did its just their genetics allowed them to make it that far while others can do the same and never get there.

Hell my personal opinion is why do you people cycle if they aren't competitive athletes in the first place? Why take the risk at all?

[marcus300]

the body is more resilient then most think,for all the people out there juicing or who have juiced,the % in actual "horror" cases is low,there millions of ppl juicing in this world and once every 10yrs some ex footbal player or wrestler dies its blamed on steroid use and then the media jumps all over it and has ppl believing that one anadrol will kill your liver...what a joke!!.im more scared of killing my liver taking tylenol then with steroids

goodluck to you

I agree there are many horror stories about people juicing and it killing them but whats that got to do with what we are discussing?

we've had it before,

I respect marcus and his opinons and know he doesnt believe in high doses.Im on the other end of the spectrum, but its all good,thats what we are here for. and I bet if we ever sat down to debate this we'd finish a whole keg of beer and still not be done

I dont think you know me at all, ive written many articles on high dose/burst cycles, infact i am from the Borreson days of high busrt cycles, check out my thread.

I am not into advicing newbies to cycle at such a young age because of what ive seen first hand,written and many many threads on the internet, it isnt worth debating because its plain to see, enjoy your keg buddy!