Civil Right-"Freedom Of Assembly"

[BgMc31]

We all came from the same place. In 2 or three more generations, most black/whites will be integrated into society as anew. Part of this bullshit racial dilemma that I see is further promulgated by ignorance and stupidity around the world. but more so in this country. My daughter is 16-1/2 and dates blacks. As long as who ever she dates, as long as she's happy, then that's where it ends.Interesting turn of advents, to say the least. Yes, Obama has a blessing being the first black president, no doubt a history in the making. But, in the same token, everyone is watching every step this guy is making. And, add to the fact that he is walking into a political nightmare and a recession, only makes this situation more vexing for him.It is part of the new world we must adapt to. The fact that , if obama was a white candidate and ran the same campaign model, he would have never even made it to the primary.It is what it is. Now, from what I have seen, as a whole, is that some blacks are very biased and racist towards whites.This is not to say that whites are any better at this problem than blacks. I was a Reagan man only due to the fact he was an excellent strategist at fighting a war. and I served under him in the eighties. I think he did some shit wrong, but we can find fault with anybody.I guess in a thousand more years, we can be all mixed up as a population,(skin color). then we can concertrate on the really problems we need to fix and address them without this racist bullshit that people just can't get buy.It's like a bunch of children in a playground pointing fingers at each other saying, "your it", or something.I don't like obama for what he is trying to do,that's it. I didn't like Busch either. Hated the Clinton administration also. So, You can see that I make my judgements on who the candidate is as a person and the decisions he makes.

Best

T

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.

Pretty much everyone that Liberal America feels bad for.

That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

[TITANIUM]

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.



That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

I'm not a racist, obviously.I think you can see that by now.Obama just stepped in at bad economic times.So he is going to get more crap than normally incurred, (even if he was white). If he was put in office, say in the early 90's, it wouldn't be as negativley noticed.And he is very leftist aggressive by nature.I don't think that the US is ready for such a change yet, if at all. As far as my daughter goes, If she is happy, then that makes me happy.I don't see color.But until we can get through the color ignorance in this country, it will only compound problems for us all.

Best

T

[MuscleScience]

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.



That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

I dont know what you mean. I wasnt talking about Obama. I was talking about all of Liberal America. Most of my generation voted for him simple because he wasnt a 80 year old man.

Also you can say the reverse for blacks voting for obama. There was a very large percentage that voted for Obama based on race. I wont deny that some whites, hispanics, asians ect. oppose Obama because he is half black. I still say that white people are the most tolerant people in the world. Sure there are still racist, but white european culture has welcomed almost every race and creed into modern society. I couldnt walk down the streets of Tehran, or Nairobi or Tokyo without getting jailed or attacked or beheaded or denied serves in Tokyo. Just my 2 cynical cents.

[BgMc31]

....double post

[BgMc31]

I dont know what you mean. I wasnt talking about Obama. I was talking about all of Liberal America. Most of my generation voted for him simple because he wasnt a 80 year old man.

Also you can say the reverse for blacks voting for obama. There was a very large percentage that voted for Obama based on race. I wont deny that some whites, hispanics, asians ect. oppose Obama because he is half black. I still say that white people are the most tolerant people in the world. Sure there are still racist, but white european culture has welcomed almost every race and creed into modern society. I couldnt walk down the streets of Tehran, or Nairobi or Tokyo without getting jailed or attacked or beheaded or denied serves in Tokyo. Just my 2 cynical cents.

I see your point Musclescience, but I disagree with your assessment of 'most of my generation'. Even with every single black person of voting age in america voting for Obama, it still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

I also see your point about white Europeans. But like you I can't walk the streets of Tehran, Nairobi, or Tokyo but I also can't walk the streets of some places in Russia, Poland, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc. all because the color of my skin.

Racism exists, there's no denying that, but you cannot deny that it also has some place in politics. Just look at some of the rhetoric during some of these rallies. It's right there in the open.

Here's my overall beef Musclescience, many conservatives act like our best days are behind us. But for Blacks and other minorities, this is the best time in history for us. Sure the unemployment rate is hovering around 10% and around 20% for blacks. But for once we are seeing a level playing field (or as close to level as we've ever seen it) and we have Obama to thank for that. You bring up the issue of blacks voting for Obama, did you realize that Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK? It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. But it simply isn't true. The man isn't hitler or the anti-christ and I don't see him destroying our constitution. Bush did more against the constitution than Obama has ever proposed. If people would simply LISTEN to the man and not to this right wing nut jobs then they would see that, even though he is very liberal, he believes in the constitution. Look, I don't agree with everything that Obama does (I'm major pissed about the continuation of the Patriot Act shit), but I agree with many of his policies, much more than any republican candidate.

I want this country to succeed, I'm American and damned proud to be one. But the anger and rhetoric expoused today against this man is simply unfounded. People need to think for themselves and maybe we can have rational dialogue about this and I think we really do need a rational dialogue about race, but there appears to be blatant ignorance on both sides.

[Kratos]

still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK?

It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. .

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

[MuscleScience]

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

I agree, I really dont see anyone that thinks our best days our behind us consider race as a major component of that. I believe our best days our behind us because of our continued social decay and entitlements among other things. I think probably the most destructive force that is driving this nation down is the lose of our competitive spirit. Competition is what has made us a world hyperpower as Chirac called us a few years ago. It is what has built the worlds largest middle class and the worlds most wealthy men. The idea that everyone of adult age is equal is just false. Not everyone can compete in our society equally. While I truly believe the playing field should be equal. I do not believe in paying for those who are unable to compete or unwilling. That is my major beef with socialism, its not leveling the playing field for everyone as much as its punishing those who can compete by taxing them to pay for the less fortunate. I would much rather pay 30% of my income to a solid charity than paying 30% to the wasteful government.

Just to be clear I do not dislike Obama, I am firmly against any more movement towards a more socialist society. That is the democratic platform in my perception. Whether anyone thinks its miss guided or not. I actually think that Obama is heads above Bush. He clearly had a better message than McCain, or the Republican party in shambles after 8 years of Bush.

[Mooseman33]

I see your point Musclescience, but I disagree with your assessment of 'most of my generation'. Even with every single black person of voting age in america voting for Obama, it still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

I also see your point about white Europeans. But like you I can't walk the streets of Tehran, Nairobi, or Tokyo but I also can't walk the streets of some places in Russia, Poland, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc. all because the color of my skin.

Racism exists, there's no denying that, but you cannot deny that it also has some place in politics. Just look at some of the rhetoric during some of these rallies. It's right there in the open.

Here's my overall beef Musclescience, many conservatives act like our best days are behind us. But for Blacks and other minorities, this is the best time in history for us. Sure the unemployment rate is hovering around 10% and around 20% for blacks. But for once we are seeing a level playing field (or as close to level as we've ever seen it) and we have Obama to thank for that. You bring up the issue of blacks voting for Obama, did you realize that Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK? It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. But it simply isn't true. The man isn't hitler or the anti-christ and I don't see him destroying our constitution. Bush did more against the constitution than Obama has ever proposed. If people would simply LISTEN to the man and not to this right wing nut jobs then they would see that, even though he is very liberal, he believes in the constitution. Look, I don't agree with everything that Obama does (I'm major pissed about the continuation of the Patriot Act shit), but I agree with many of his policies, much more than any republican candidate.

I want this country to succeed, I'm American and damned proud to be one. But the anger and rhetoric expoused today against this man is simply unfounded. People need to think for themselves and maybe we can have rational dialogue about this and I think we really do need a rational dialogue about race, but there appears to be blatant ignorance on both sides.

are u saying that just cause a Black man was elected it leveled the playing field?

if not, please explain what he has done to level the field?

and the propblem with Obama is when people DO listen to him. the man is smooth, one hell of a speaker, but what he says does not translate into what he is doing, he tells people what they need to know, what they need to do.

[BgMc31]

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

http://www.slate.com/id/2198397/

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

I understand your gripes Kratos and I agree with everything you posted. But what both you and I are speaking of is opinion based, based purely on our experience. I am glad you feel this way and not color based. But I hear the rhetoric (maybe I'm a bit too sensative to the situation) and I would love it to be just that simple (what you posted), but to ignore the racial paradigm is fool hearted, IMO.

Again, I'm not dismissing SOME people's objections in the name of racism. I am perfectly aware of people's legitimate concerns. What concerns me are the unfounded concerns and the underlyning racial overtones of those objections.

are u saying that just cause a Black man was elected it leveled the playing field?

Yes, I believe the election of a Black president has leveled the playing field, for the most part. There are still unbalances in our society that, eventually, because the election of a minority president, will continue to diminish.

if not, please explain what he has done to level the field?

and the propblem with Obama is when people DO listen to him. the man is smooth, one hell of a speaker, but what he says does not translate into what he is doing, he tells people what they need to know, what they need to do.

What has he said that he hasn't done, or a least, has tried to get done? Let's face reality, a president is supposed to be charismatic. Don't fault him for that. Hell Bush had charisma that appealed to a certain demographic as was Clinton and hell Reagan was an actor full of charisma. Any public official needs a certain amount of that. Why is it now its a problem?

In bold ^^^^

[BgMc31]

Hey fellas, I heard a pretty interesting observation by a well renowned comedian last night about the 'Obama effect'. To conservatives and many whites everything that's wrong with this country is blamed on Obama. To liberal and most minorities everything that's good with this country is because of Obama. Both are wrong but I believe that is the general consensus of bulk of this country.