Government to promote healthier citizens? Express your views

[RuhlFreak55]

where are u from?

Do u live in the states? or North america(canada, mexico, U.S.A)?

why is that pertinent? and i live in the Midwest

[C_Bino]

I'm in the biologics field..... acl tears/replacements - osteochondral procedures - bone matrix and paste...... if the healthcare system falls..... getting coverage for these things is going to be harder..... prices will have to drop..... blah blah blah.....

~Haz~

Yes for acute injuries health care is ok. But that is not even a quarter of the cost of health care...probably a tenth or less. I HOPE the health care system falls and crumbles because is a giant scam and kills more people than it helps.

Do you know what the NUMBER ONE leading cause of death in North America is?

Prescription drugs and iatrogenic deaths. FACT.

Even in a study done by the United States Department for Technological Assessment they found that only 10-20% of ALL medical procedures have scientific proof to their effectiveness...the rest is not substantiated by any proof.

Get to the root of the problem and stop treating symptoms.

[RuhlFreak55]

Do you know what the NUMBER ONE leading cause of death in North America is?

Prescription drugs and iatrogenic deaths. FACT.

Even in a study done by the United States Department for Technological Assessment they found that only 10-20% of ALL medical procedures have scientific proof to their effectiveness...the rest is not substantiated by any proof.

Get to the root of the problem and stop treating symptoms.

I knew there was a good reason i don't go to the doctor.

[gixxerboy1]

the botom line is we live in a lazy socitey, people can eat health but choose not to, they would rather eat quick like Haz stated.

I also think it will get alot worse than better.....but tbh im not to worried as i will defo get to see 40

for me its about being lazy. But i work all day and when i get home i want to eat. So i cant wait an hour to cook sometimes if i dont have soemthing pre made

[thegodfather]

What is even more disturbing for me than the insanely high rate of obesity in the United States, is the insanely high number of people who more and more think that government is the answer to any number of problems that are wrong with society.

1. Infrastructure.
2. National Security.
3. Enforcing Contracts.
4. Ensuring a strong currency exists for trade.

That is where the governments obligation to the people ends, and where the peoples expectation of government should equally end.

[MuscleScience]

What is even more disturbing for me than the insanely high rate of obesity in the United States, is the insanely high number of people who more and more think that government is the answer to any number of problems that are wrong with society.

1. Infrastructure.
2. National Security.
3. Enforcing Contracts.
4. Ensuring a strong currency exists for trade.

That is where the governments obligation to the people ends, and where the peoples expectation of government should equally end.

I agree completely,

BTW your up damn late!

[thegodfather]

Yes for acute injuries health care is ok. But that is not even a quarter of the cost of health care...probably a tenth or less. I HOPE the health care system falls and crumbles because is a giant scam and kills more people than it helps.

Do you know what the NUMBER ONE leading cause of death in North America is?

Prescription drugs and iatrogenic deaths. FACT.

Even in a study done by the United States Department for Technological Assessment they found that only 10-20% of ALL medical procedures have scientific proof to their effectiveness...the rest is not substantiated by any proof.

Get to the root of the problem and stop treating symptoms.

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:

* Heart disease: 631,636
* Cancer: 559,888
* Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 137,119
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,583
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 121,599
* Diabetes: 72,449
* Alzheimer's disease: 72,432
* Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,326
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,344
* Septicemia: 34,234

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/deaths.htm

Drug-induced mortality
In 2006, a total of 38,396 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States (Tables 21 and 22). This category includes not only deaths from dependent and nondependent use of legal or illegal drugs, but also poisoning from medically prescribed and other drugs. It excludes unintentional injuries, homicides, and other causes indirectly related to drug use, as well as newborn deaths due to the mother’s drug use (for a list of drug-induced causes, see ‘‘Technical Notes’’).

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

In what ways can heart disease, cancer, or stroke be described as iatrogenic? Heart disease is most often either lifestyle related or hereditary. Cancer is mostly hereditary and in some cases lifestyle related in the case of smokers. Stroke is also lifestyle related.

631,636 > 38,396 and if I posted the numbers of people who died only from ADR (Adverse Drug Reaction) the number would be much lower. I'm interested to know where these facts came from?

Everyone is quick to jump on the bandwagon of shunning allopathy, but are also very quick to call 911 when they need medical attention and get that attention from the same allopathic physicians they criticize.

To be honest, physicians are most often stuck treating patients symptoms because they refuse to make the necessary lifestyle changes that the physicians recommend to them. What are we left to do when we tell obese people they need to start exercising and eating healthy and they refuse to do it? We do as much as we can and give them a script for Lipitor in the hopes we can keep their cholesterol down low enough to extend their life despite their unhealthy and destructive lifestyle. A great deal of medical procedures would be unnecessary if individuals adhered to the advice of medical professionals and made the necessary lifestyle changes that are recommended.

Physicians can only help that patient while they are in the office or in the hospital, it is up to the patient to help themselves the other 10 million hours that they are at home. I hope that you are true to your word and will refuse treatment by those 80-90% of medical procedures with no scientific backing.

[C_Bino]

In what ways can heart disease, cancer, or stroke be described as iatrogenic? Heart disease is most often either lifestyle related or hereditary. Cancer is mostly hereditary and in some cases lifestyle related in the case of smokers. Stroke is also lifestyle related.

631,636 > 38,396 and if I posted the numbers of people who died only from ADR (Adverse Drug Reaction) the number would be much lower. I'm interested to know where these facts came from?

Everyone is quick to jump on the bandwagon of shunning allopathy, but are also very quick to call 911 when they need medical attention and get that attention from the same allopathic physicians they criticize.

To be honest, physicians are most often stuck treating patients symptoms because they refuse to make the necessary lifestyle changes that the physicians recommend to them. What are we left to do when we tell obese people they need to start exercising and eating healthy and they refuse to do it? We do as much as we can and give them a script for Lipitor in the hopes we can keep their cholesterol down low enough to extend their life despite their unhealthy and destructive lifestyle. A great deal of medical procedures would be unnecessary if individuals adhered to the advice of medical professionals and made the necessary lifestyle changes that are recommended.

Physicians can only help that patient while they are in the office or in the hospital, it is up to the patient to help themselves the other 10 million hours that they are at home. I hope that you are true to your word and will refuse treatment by those 80-90% of medical procedures with no scientific backing.

October 28, 2003

Deadly Medical Mistakes Exposed

New York, New York - New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in the United States.

According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was 553,251.

Over 2.2 million people are injured every year by prescription drugs alone and over 20 million unnecessary prescriptions for antibiotics are prescribed annually for viral infections. The report also shows that 7.5 million unnecessary medical and surgical procedures are performed every year and 8.9 million people are needlessly hospitalized annually. Based on the results of NIA's report, it is evident that there is a pressing need for an overhaul of the entire American medical system.

The findings, described as a "revelation" by Martin Feldman, MD, who helped to uncover the evidence, are the product of the first comprehensive studies on iatrogenic incidents. Never before has any study uncovered such a massive amount of information with regard to iatrogenesis. Historically, only small individual partial studies have been performed in this area.

Carolyn Dean, MD, a physician and author who also helped to uncover the findings said, "I was completely shocked, amazed, and dismayed when I first added up all the statistics on medical death and saw how much allopathic medicine has betrayed us."

The Nutrition Institute of America is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that has been enlightening the public on health issues for nearly 30 years.

Download the whole report here.

For more information, contact David Slater, President of NIA at (646) 505 - 4660 x 155.
Alternatively contact: Richard Polonetsky (646)-505-4660 x171

Sorry but do you think your own government will admit it? LOL

You need to follow the money and you will find the truth. And sure calling 911..I never said health care wasnt good for trauma...in fact I did say it WAS.

It's funny you speak of Lipitor...do you have any idea of the mechanism by which that statin drug works? Its absolute poison and does NOTHING good...NOTHING.

Doctors dont make lifestyle recommendations...if they do its v ague and without proper training. They dont know how to cure disease...if they did they wouldnt be handing out deadly prescriptions, they would be curing disease not treating its symptoms meanwhile allowing the patient to still die.

Boy oh boy...you also say cancer is HEREDITARY?

Alright forget it, sometimes a good argument and debate is fun. But I dont think you would be someone with enough expertise in this area for me to have an intelligent debate with.

Like I said...you want the truth start to follow the money. Look at how many drug recalls there has been, look at the billion dollar class action lawsuits against big box pharma's. You will most certainly be surprise.

And would I turn down 80-90% of medical procedures? You are damn right I would...Only reason I would go to a doctor is to get blood work done. And then take the results myself and go on my way.

[powerful intelligent]

It's not real expensive to eat good if you know how to shop.

The london broil goes on sale for 2.99/lb and I buy enough to last until it goes back on sale again. Chicken breast goes on sale and I do the same.

I make spaghetti from scratch and get about 10 meals out of it. It cost me less than $20. Both the lean ground beef and hot Italian sausage goes on sale and I stock up. I use 1.5lb of each along with green peppers, mushrooms, onions, and whole cutup tomatoes. yummy.

I also make huge salads with just about every veg you can think of. It's not expensive and is great for you.

All kinds of healthy options if you are willing to cook. Much cheaper than eating out and you know exactly whats in it.

I do agree. Instead of spending 3.99 cents plus tax on the mcdonalds double quarter pounder buy a head of lettice and some apples.

[elpropiotorvic]

why is that pertinent? and i live in the Midwest

I'm just wondering a little bit about ur background

[elpropiotorvic]

What is even more disturbing for me than the insanely high rate of obesity in the United States, is the insanely high number of people who more and more think that government is the answer to any number of problems that are wrong with society.

1. Infrastructure.
2. National Security.
3. Enforcing Contracts.
4. Ensuring a strong currency exists for trade.

That is where the governments obligation to the people ends, and where the peoples expectation of government should equally end.

You are right, the govt is not the answer but, it is in charge of all this,
is it not the governments duty to protects it's citizens security
is it not one of the functions of the national bank to control reduce inflation by adopting measures in the markets

is it not in a court of law where a contract is enforced, hence the term contract( enforceable by law)
is it not the government who builds roads and what not to generate jobs?

[zaggahamma]

You are right, the govt is not the answer but, it is in charge of all this,
is it not the governments duty to protects it's citizens security
is it not one of the functions of the national bank to control reduce inflation by adopting measures in the markets

is it not in a court of law where a contract is enforced, hence the term contract( enforceable by law)
is it not the government who builds roads and what not to generate jobs?

exactly ...IT IS...wut we make it

[Hazard]

Sorry but do you think your own government will admit it? LOL

You need to follow the money and you will find the truth. And sure calling 911..I never said health care wasnt good for trauma...in fact I did say it WAS.

It's funny you speak of Lipitor...do you have any idea of the mechanism by which that statin drug works? Its absolute poison and does NOTHING good...NOTHING.

Doctors dont make lifestyle recommendations...if they do its v ague and without proper training. They dont know how to cure disease...if they did they wouldnt be handing out deadly prescriptions, they would be curing disease not treating its symptoms meanwhile allowing the patient to still die.

Boy oh boy...you also say cancer is HEREDITARY?

Alright forget it, sometimes a good argument and debate is fun. But I dont think you would be someone with enough expertise in this area for me to have an intelligent debate with.

Like I said...you want the truth start to follow the money. Look at how many drug recalls there has been, look at the billion dollar class action lawsuits against big box pharma's. You will most certainly be surprise.

And would I turn down 80-90% of medical procedures? You are damn right I would...Only reason I would go to a doctor is to get blood work done. And then take the results myself and go on my way.

I am pretty much ON POINT with you.....

I don't think people need to run to the doctor for EVERYTHING. Antibiotics get thrown around like skittles.....

Cholesterol problems, in most cases, are diet/lifestyle related..... I don't think someone should have to live on lipitor.....

A lot of people get high bloodpressure from drinking and consuming a ton of salt..... my father was one of them. He was on BP medication for years and years..... he changed his diet and lifestyle and is BP med free.

Surgical procedures ARE NOT always necessary and in fact..... doctors make A LOT of mistakes that no-one outside of the operating room will ever know. I know first hand.....

Obviously surgical procedures are necessary..... trauma stuff.....preventative surgeries like heart valve replacements..... It's the things like gastric bypasses that need to get curtailed.....

~Haz~

[elpropiotorvic]

I am pretty much ON POINT with you.....

I don't think people need to run to the doctor for EVERYTHING. Antibiotics get thrown around like skittles.....

Cholesterol problems, in most cases, are diet/lifestyle related..... I don't think someone should have to live on lipitor.....

A lot of people get high bloodpressure from drinking and consuming a ton of salt..... my father was one of them. He was on BP medication for years and years..... he changed his diet and lifestyle and is BP med free.

Surgical procedures ARE NOT always necessary and in fact..... doctors make A LOT of mistakes that no-one outside of the operating room will ever know. I know first hand.....

Obviously surgical procedures are necessary..... trauma stuff.....preventative surgeries like heart valve replacements..... It's the things like gastric bypasses that need to get curtailed.....

~Haz~

Yeah there is a lot of antibiótics thrown down for just ccough and StuffIt like that....
Once i actually went to see a doctor becUse i have pubertal gyno... And at the time i had not take steroids...

He said stop drinkin whey protein ......

[ectomorph28]

Sorry but do you think your own government will admit it? LOL

You need to follow the money and you will find the truth. And sure calling 911..I never said health care wasnt good for trauma...in fact I did say it WAS.

It's funny you speak of Lipitor...do you have any idea of the mechanism by which that statin drug works? Its absolute poison and does NOTHING good...NOTHING.

Doctors dont make lifestyle recommendations...if they do its v ague and without proper training. They dont know how to cure disease...if they did they wouldnt be handing out deadly prescriptions, they would be curing disease not treating its symptoms meanwhile allowing the patient to still die.

Boy oh boy...you also say cancer is HEREDITARY?

Alright forget it, sometimes a good argument and debate is fun. But I dont think you would be someone with enough expertise in this area for me to have an intelligent debate with.

Like I said...you want the truth start to follow the money. Look at how many drug recalls there has been, look at the billion dollar class action lawsuits against big box pharma's. You will most certainly be surprise.

And would I turn down 80-90% of medical procedures? You are damn right I would...Only reason I would go to a doctor is to get blood work done. And then take the results myself and go on my way.

Good post,

Also, I could be wrong but do doctors even get educated in nutrition while in medical school? If so, how much?

[rockinred]

I am pretty fed up with the government telling me what to do, how to live, what to eat, what to think, how to act.... does not anyone else see what this "new" government is becoming? people have plenty of issues, no argument there...but damn, the last thing I need is some more damn regs in my life. there is no more free land and free will... I wish I could run to and discover a new country just so I can be a free man again.

This country is slowly and literally becoming like that stupid movie Demolition Man.

[Hazard]

This country is slowly and literally becoming like that stupid movie Demolition Man.

who u kiddin..... U loved that movie!


~Haz~

[thegodfather]

Sorry but do you think your own government will admit it? LOL

You need to follow the money and you will find the truth. And sure calling 911..I never said health care wasnt good for trauma...in fact I did say it WAS.

It's funny you speak of Lipitor...do you have any idea of the mechanism by which that statin drug works? Its absolute poison and does NOTHING good...NOTHING.

Doctors dont make lifestyle recommendations...if they do its v ague and without proper training. They dont know how to cure disease...if they did they wouldnt be handing out deadly prescriptions, they would be curing disease not treating its symptoms meanwhile allowing the patient to still die.

Boy oh boy...you also say cancer is HEREDITARY?

Alright forget it, sometimes a good argument and debate is fun. But I dont think you would be someone with enough expertise in this area for me to have an intelligent debate with.

Like I said...you want the truth start to follow the money. Look at how many drug recalls there has been, look at the billion dollar class action lawsuits against big box pharma's. You will most certainly be surprise.

And would I turn down 80-90% of medical procedures? You are damn right I would...Only reason I would go to a doctor is to get blood work done. And then take the results myself and go on my way.

Please see your quote that I put in bold. I really resent the ASSUMPTION that I am not educated enough to have an intelligent debate with on this topic. I certainly never made such presumptuous statements towards you, and I just think it would be a nice courtesy to first ask my background before making such baseless assumptions.

Anyway, yes a great deal of cancers are hereditary(I did not say all). Statistically, 1 in 3 people will get cancer in their lifetime. We can for instance, look at the P53 gene which is a tumor suppressor gene. In persons with one allele on their P53 gene knocked out, they will have a 50% chance of developing cancer if the other allele is knocked out either by error during mitosis, or from an environmental factor such as radiation, UV rays, chemicals, etc, etc. The chances of the other allele being knocked out during mitosis are real, since every 1 in 100,000 cells have a mutation/error. I'm rambling, but the point is that this can be a hereditary trait, just like any other number of mutations in genes (Cystic Fibrosis, via the Cystic Fibrosis Trans membrane Receptor CFTR). Obviously for the trait to be passed on the mutation also has to exist in the gametes. You can figure this shit out pretty easily using a Punnett Square, we used to do it to figure out the probability of a child's hair color given what each parents haircolor is and then determining which genes are dominant and recessive for each respective trait.

I think that you have every right to use an alternative treatment such as homeopathy, etc. However, to COMPLETELY write off allopathy is ludicrous. Yes Lipitor is a horrible drug, I personally don't think ANYONE should have to take it, however physicians cant control a persons lifestyle choices, and if a person continues to live an unhealthy lifestyle it is the best that the physician can do for that patient, short of moving into their house and controlling all of their meal choices and making them run their unhealthy asses on a treadmill every morning.

I'm not really sure why you went on the defensive in this conversation anyway. I was really just probing because I wanted to hear your side of things and what alternatives YOU think are superior based on your research, training, experience, or credentials? You obviously have an alternative viewpoint to allopathy, and I'm interested to hear it to be quite honest.

[Older lifter]

People need to get a bit smarter,, not Bl**dy governments telling us what to do and how to be all the time...

Stupid people always looking for some one to tell them what they already really know..... less power to the governments and less stupid people is what we really need

[Kratos]

Let them die.....This you've made yourself a complete fatass

Weren't you a fat boy?

[elpropiotorvic]

Yeah ... I dint want the government to tell me what to do ... But I do want the government to give me an economic stimulus for eating healthy and putting an economic burden on those who don't ( who also end up using healthcare more than I do )


It's not about what the government tells u... It's about having a break...

Can any of u say that ur diets are cheap?

Could any of u see how much cheaper would be to eat crappy foods?

It's about making it more affordable to eat healthier and not affordable to eat unhealthy

[RuhlFreak55]

I already explained how flawed your view is.....wtf makes you think you deserve a REWARD for eating healthy??? that's absurd....that choice is your alone and the rewards are endless to your life....to say that someone else should essentially pay you to eat healthy is just taking away more freedom. I have the right to eat whatever the **** i want, and the first step toward taking that right away is the complete bullshit your talking about. Inevitably more would follow

[zaggahamma]

Yeah ... I dint want the government to tell me what to do ... But I do want the government to give me an economic stimulus for eating healthy and putting an economic burden on those who don't ( who also end up using healthcare more than I do )


It's not about what the government tells u... It's about having a break...

Can any of u say that ur diets are cheap?

Could any of u see how much cheaper would be to eat crappy foods?

It's about making it more affordable to eat healthier and not affordable to eat unhealthy

x2 and tax the F out of smokers too...I hate that shiat

[Older lifter]

Well, i don't drink so tax the F out of that too,,,,and its baddddddd for you,,,, Oh red meat thats bad so tax that more too..... oh and what about chickens ,,,poor things getting killed for us to eat...Hey lets tax that more tooo..........

Leave Gov out of it and just do what you want,,, you will pay for it in the end one way or the other.....