Which supplements are a MUST?

[IM708]

i can post you the book title.Supplements for Strength-Power Athletes by Jose Antonio and Jeffrey R. Stout (Paperback - Jun 2002) and just about anything by Anita Bean

i also have been using supps for 19yrs and neva felt any benefit from taking bcaa's, this kinda confirmed it for me.

I don't care how many years you have been doing this for. Personal experience doesn't matter to me either, too much bias involved. Science is what matters.

Here's 5 studies showing as to why bcaas are beneficial.

[gunslinger2]

bcaa's are protein pure and simple. You can take 10,000 mgs of aminos and at a basic level you have 10 grams of protein. There are certain aminos that you don't get much from foods and they might be worth adding but not at the price GNC charges.

If you eat a wide range of protein foods such as milk, eggs, chicken, beef and fish on a regular you will get 99% of all the aminos you will need from food. Taking 20 horse pills per day is a waste of time and money that could be better spent on other things like food.

[IM708]

bcaa's are protein pure and simple. You can take 10,000 mgs of aminos and at a basic level you have 10 grams of protein. There are certain aminos that you don't get much from foods and they might be worth adding but not at the price GNC charges.

If you eat a wide range of protein foods such as milk, eggs, chicken, beef and fish on a regular you will get 99% of all the aminos you will need from food. Taking 20 horse pills per day is a waste of time and money that could be better spent on other things like food.

Big difference between the two. Do a little research on the subject

[Swifto]

bcaa's are protein pure and simple. You can take 10,000 mgs of aminos and at a basic level you have 10 grams of protein. There are certain aminos that you don't get much from foods and they might be worth adding but not at the price GNC charges.

If you eat a wide range of protein foods such as milk, eggs, chicken, beef and fish on a regular you will get 99% of all the aminos you will need from food. Taking 20 horse pills per day is a waste of time and money that could be better spent on other things like food.

You'de have to eat a boat load of good to get 10g BCAA's and 10g Leucine to replicate my shake.

BCAA's (pure) will also enter the bloodstream quicker.

BCAA's all the way, I think Whey is outdated.

[gunslinger2]

Big difference between the two. Do a little research on the subject

I have for close to 20 years. You would be hard pressed to tell a difference in the real world. The big difference you speak of is not in aminos vs protein but what works in the real world vs in a lab. I will not spend hard earned cash on stuff that looks good on paper but seems to make no difference in the gym or mirror.

I have tried aminos, took them for years and you know what? A protein shake and a steak will do the same or better for far less. You do need BCAA's. But IMO its a waste of money to buy them.

Ever seen anyone get huge on BCAA's? No, and no one else has either. When I take 20 grams of glutamine per day I feel it. When I jack my protein up to 2 grams per lb of BW I feel it. What I take 40 amino tabs at a time the only thing I feel is my wallet getting lighter.

You argue science but wait...is this the same science that just a few years ago had people eating 70-80% carb diets? Is this the same science that a few years before that said no one needs more than 50 grams of protein per day? Is this the same science that said steroids don't promote faster or greater muscle gains? Yeah, you believe all that if you like, I'll stick with what I know actually does something through 17 hard years of training.

[IM708]

I have for close to 20 years. You would be hard pressed to tell a difference in the real world. The big difference you speak of is not in aminos vs protein but what works in the real world vs in a lab. I will not spend hard earned cash on stuff that looks good on paper but seems to make no difference in the gym or mirror.

I have tried aminos, took them for years and you know what? A protein shake and a steak will do the same or better for far less. You do need BCAA's. But IMO its a waste of money to buy them.

Ever seen anyone get huge on BCAA's? No, and no one else has either. When I take 20 grams of glutamine per day I feel it. When I jack my protein up to 2 grams per lb of BW I feel it. What I take 40 amino tabs at a time the only thing I feel is my wallet getting lighter.

You argue science but wait...is this the same science that just a few years ago had people eating 70-80% carb diets? Is this the same science that a few years before that said no one needs more than 50 grams of protein per day? Is this the same science that said steroids don't promote faster or greater muscle gains? Yeah, you believe all that if you like, I'll stick with what I know actually does something through 17 hard years of training.

So your going to use the "I've been lifting for 20 years blah blah blah" card? Good luck with that bud.

[gunslinger2]

So your going to use the "I've been lifting for 20 years blah blah blah" card? Good luck with that bud.

Honestly, is that all you got from what I said? You completely ignore what your "science" has been saying for years in favor of attacking me on a personal level?

I don't here any answers from you. So I ask again: Ever seen anyone get huge on BCAA's? Is this the same science that just a few years ago had people eating 70-80% carb diets? Is this the same science that a few years before that said no one needs more than 50 grams of protein per day? Is this the same science that said steroids don't promote faster or greater muscle gains?

If you can answer yes to the first question about BCAA's and no to the rest then you may have some valid points. If not, you are just being a parrot and repeating what you read in a magazine. The problem with you is that you have no real life experience. I have been lifting almost as long as you have been alive. I know what works and what does not because I have tried most of it at some point and seen many hundreds of others do the same. All you know is what you read on google and in musclemag. You made this statement "I've been lifting for 20 years blah blah blah" card?" because you are young and get offended when people who are older and know more than you speak out.

Tough, deal with it. I await the answers to my questions.

[IM708]

I don't here any answers from you. So I ask again: Ever seen anyone get huge on BCAA's?

This is such a stupid question. Do you know the supplement regimen of all people who have ever lifted and can even prove this stupid question of yours? Hmm? It seems by your wording that you some how know the answer to this question. When did this product ever promise to make anyone "huge"? It called a supplement for a reason, a supplement to a much larger scheme that is required for someone to become "huge".

Is this the same science that just a few years ago had people eating 70-80% carb diets?

Not even in the same league.

Is this the same science that a few years before that said no one needs more than 50 grams of protein per day? Is this the same science that said steroids don't promote faster or greater muscle gains?

No and I would love for you to show me a LEGITIMATE study that actually comes to this conclusion.

If you can answer yes to the first question about BCAA's and no to the rest then you may have some valid points. If not, you are just being a parrot and repeating what you read in a magazine.

Those 5 studies I posted are created by LEGITIMATE institutions who do controlled studies and are then published, all found through my universities online library for journals. I'm not rehashing information I found that Jay Cutler is touting in a Muscle and Fitness magazine, do those studies look like anything I found inside a muscle magazine?

[dec11]

So your going to use the "I've been lifting for 20 years blah blah blah" card? Good luck with that bud.

and that means nothing? i was on a strict competitive (natural) routinue for years and i have nailed down what works supplement wise, i've used everything from a-z. dont write of experience, thts just stupid. age 19 on your profile, that says it all, we'll debate again in a few years mate, during tht time trying using all the stuff your proclaiming. ever hear the phrase, 'dont believe everything you read'? i've been taught by a world class sports competitive lecturer who also rubbishes aminos, and i tend to take advice by someone who has been trained on an international scale by guess what, sports and nutritional scientists.

[IM708]

and that means nothing? i was on a strict competitive (natural) routinue for years and i have nailed down what works supplement wise, i've used everything from a-z. dont write of experience, thts just stupid.

It means nothing. Scientific data is what matter. As stated, too much bias results from using one persons real world experience reguarding variance topics.

age 19 on your profile, that says it all, we'll debate again in a few years mate, during tht time trying using all the stuff your proclaiming. ever hear the phrase, 'dont believe everything you read'?

Good use of age bias, that is a great way to end your argument. I'm done arguing with you, you keep throwing more bullshit in your argument. Age means nothing, ever seen how old some of our smarter members are here? Phate, 20 years old...

i've been taught by a world class sports competitive lecturer who also rubbishes aminos, and i tend to take advice by someone who has been trained on an international scale by guess what, sports and nutritional scientists

Who?


My original point still stands in this way over drawn thread. BCAAs have been scientifically proven to be a beneficial supplement. No matter the amount of gibberish you or gunslinger throw on it, my point still stands.

[Swifto]

and that means nothing? i was on a strict competitive (natural) routinue for years and i have nailed down what works supplement wise, i've used everything from a-z. dont write of experience, thts just stupid. age 19 on your profile, that says it all, we'll debate again in a few years mate, during tht time trying using all the stuff your proclaiming. ever hear the phrase, 'dont believe everything you read'? i've been taught by a world class sports competitive lecturer who also rubbishes aminos, and i tend to take advice by someone who has been trained on an international scale by guess what, sports and nutritional scientists.

Your rubbishing peer-reviewed scientific published data? For "personal experience"?

You meen to tell me you tried the exact diet, training regime and experimented on various supplements throughout "20 years" and took every variable into account, then formulated an opinoin based on the data? What have you concluded over "20 years".

You see, I get ****ed off with people saying, I did this and that over X amount of years as it means close to nothing when put next too a published study. When you argue a point, you need to present some sort of argument and "20 years" experience, means very little when claiming the opposite of published clinical data by various universities conducted by medical professionals.

[gunslinger2]

and that means nothing? i was on a strict competitive (natural) routinue for years and i have nailed down what works supplement wise, i've used everything from a-z. dont write of experience, thts just stupid. age 19 on your profile, that says it all, we'll debate again in a few years mate, during tht time trying using all the stuff your proclaiming. ever hear the phrase, 'dont believe everything you read'? i've been taught by a world class sports competitive lecturer who also rubbishes aminos, and i tend to take advice by someone who has been trained on an international scale by guess what, sports and nutritional scientists.

Exactly. Just a kid with less than five years under his belt and already knows everything there is to know about bodybuilding. Maybe one day he will be able to look back as we do and see just how stupid he was.

Age and personal experience mean a hell of a lot in bodybuilding. For many years myself and others have used our own bodies to put all these theories to the test and we have through trial and error found what works in real life and what just looks good on paper. Find all the studies you like and you still can't discredit years of real world experience.

You see, I get ****ed off with people saying, I did this and that over X amount of years as it means close to nothing when put next too a published study. When you argue a point, you need to present some sort of argument and "20 years" experience, means very little when claiming the opposite of published clinical data by various universities conducted by medical professionals.

Again its the same "medical professionals" who in the late 60's and early 70's claimed "steroids do not promote faster or greater muscular gains", but are now saying steroids cause everything from cancer to the common cold. You seem to think that if its backed up by published clinical data it cannot be flawed. At the same time you throw out years of real world experience.....WTF?

There is evidence Creatine Monohydrate works.

I don't think anyone has said anything about Creatine, Creatine Ethyl Ester, or Tribulas.

[dec11]

I don't care how many years you have been doing this for. Personal experience doesn't matter to me either, too much bias involved. Science is what matters.

Here's 5 studies showing as to why bcaas are beneficial.

well i rate what genuinely works and what needs to be supplemented in the first place, you'll get the same amino's from a pwo shake and also as stated above from diet so why spend on breeze blocks tht you are just gona excrete out anyway? the book title i've posted is scientific. in truth there are very little supp's that work, and being a self titled guru maybe you should know that.

[IM708]

well i rate what genuinely works and what needs to be supplemented in the first place

The supplement geniunely works, how can you deny that? A supplement that is a bullshit would be glutamine, no matter if you take it or not, it won't provide any additional benefit, bcaas will.

you'll get the same amino's from a pwo shake

To a degree, no shit but that's not what this arguement is about. This was solely about whether it actually works and it does.

and also as stated above from diet so why spend on breeze blocks tht you are just gona excrete out anyway?

I never said it was required in the diet, a perfect diet will get you all the aminos you need. Who has a perfect diet?

the book title i've posted is scientific. in truth there are very little supp's that work, and being a self titled guru maybe you should know that.

The supplement does work, so what fallacy's am I trying to pimp on other people?

[Swifto]

I don't care how many years you have been doing this for. Personal experience doesn't matter to me either, too much bias involved. Science is what matters.

Here's 5 studies showing as to why bcaas are beneficial.

Correct.

BCAA's work and so does added Leucine.

There is ample evidence supporting the above two claims.