Obama on healthcare bill

[Kratos]

Democrats delayed most of the major spending provisions until 2014 to make the bill appear cheaper over the CBO’s 10 year budget window; ."

to be clear what that means...we get 10years of raised taxes and 6 years of health care reform to show less deficit.

taxes go up as soon as the bill passes.

[Quo]

to be clear what that means...we get 10years of raised taxes and 6 years of health care reform to show less deficit.

taxes go up as soon as the bill passes.

I am not saying I disagree with you, but the "how do we lower the deficit by introducing a trillion in new spending?" question is a red herring and not conducive to productive debate on the subject. Obviously, other programs will be replaced by this bill, and that is how they are proposing costs will actually be cut.

Again, I am not saying I disagree with you necessarily, but there are other points that are more worthy of discussion such as the constitutionality of requiring all Americans to purchase health care.

[Kratos]

I am not saying I disagree with you, but the "how do we lower the deficit by introducing a trillion in new spending?" question is a red herring and not conducive to productive debate on the subject. Obviously, other programs will be replaced by this bill, and that is how they are proposing costs will actually be cut.

Again, I am not saying I disagree with you necessarily, but there are other points that are more worthy of discussion such as the constitutionality of requiring all Americans to purchase health care.

No, it is not a red herring. I suggest you go back to school and learn your fallacies.

I'm not detracting for the issue at hand here. I'm introducing the issue that any claim of budget reduction is related to an increase in taxes and not the reform measures.

The CBO rates the bill's cost at 1 trillion...if I were to rate it, it would be much higher. I don't expect it to come in on budget.

And the tax increases are in the bill. I've listed them for all to see.
where is the fallacy?

This bill costs money, the money is proposed to be paid for through tax increases. True statement. Stop trying to sound smart, it isn't working.

[Quo]

No, it is not a red herring. I suggest you go back to school and learn your fallacies.

I'm not detracting for the issue at hand here. I'm introducing the issue that any claim of budget reduction is related to an increase in taxes and not the reform measures.

The CBO rates the bill's cost at 1 trillion...if I were to rate it, it would be much higher. I don't expect it to come in on budget.

And the tax increases are in the bill. I've listed them for all to see.
where is the fallacy?

This bill costs money, the money is proposed to be paid for through tax increases. True statement. Stop trying to sound smart, it isn't working.

And why don't you stop acting like an asshole? You've obviously got your mind made up and aren't actually interested in discussion. You just want to preach. And I am not interested in being preached to.

And how dare you imply I am uneducated. You have no idea who I am, and I can assure you I am likely far more educated than you. So get off your high horse.

Conversation over.

[Kratos]

And why don't you stop acting like an asshole? You've obviously got your mind made up and aren't actually interested in discussion. You just want to preach. And I am not interested in being preached to.

And how dare you imply I am uneducated. You have no idea who I am, and I can assure you I am likely far more educated than you. So get off your high horse.

Conversation over.

I'm sry

[Quo]

I'm sry

No, it's cool. You were pretty rude, but I am sorry I flew off the handle.

Listen, you honestly do raise some interesting points, but being dogmatic and insulting people isn't the best way to get your point across. There are people like me out there who really haven't made up their minds about this whole health insurance mess, and you do have an opportunity to convince us. But being heavy handed and closed-minded about it simply alienates people.

That's all I'm saying. But like I said, you have put some interesting thoughts and facts out there.

As for me, I like the concept of health care being accessible to all on a fundamental human rights level - but, on the other hand, government run ANYTHING always scares me, and I don't like the invasiveness of being required to purchase health care. I am pretty sure the constitution protects me against being compelled to purchase anything. So... not sure how I feel about all this.

[Kratos]

\ There are people like me out there who really haven't made up their minds about this whole health insurance mess, and you do have an opportunity to convince us. But being heavy handed and closed-minded about it simply alienates people.\.

It doesn't really matter if I convince you or not since they aren't giving us a vote.

You'll either be frustrated by abuse of power going on by not using proper senate protocols via changing the number of votes needed to pass the bill.
or
by the increase in taxes and further fiscal irresponsibility
or
you think it's a good idea to spend another trillion (and that's estimated)when we're on target to double the national debt in the next 10 years.

do you really think if you like the health plan you have now you'll be able to keep it? with no impact on price?