NEVER get sore...

[gbrice75]

First, I know that soreness is supposedly not an indication of a good/productive workout, but at least when I AM sore I know something's going on. When i'm not, it's anybody's guess.

Second - I think it's pretty common that alot of people don't get sore in their biceps, etc. That's not what i'm talking about. My problem is I NEVER get sore in the shoulders, and rarely in the back. Not so suprising, these are also my 2 most underdeveloped muscle groups IMO. I just don't know what the problem is or what to do.

I feel like I workout both groups very hard, I train close to failure (close as in without a spot it's hard to go to complete failure, at least on pressing movements as with shoulders), and I lift relatively heavy. I mix up higher reps/lighter weight and vice versa. It never makes a difference, and it's getting really frustrating. I just feel like i'm not stimulating any growth in these areas. One of the nicest parts of a muscular physique is that 'V' look, and it's non-existent on me. I train each group once a week (used to do twice a week, this made no difference either), typically as follows:

Back

Alternate Wide Grip Pullups and Lat Pulldown - 2 sets of each, 8-12 reps, or 5-7 on heavier sets

Close Grip Pullups or Lat Pulldown - 3 sets, same rep ranges

Seated Rows - 3 sets, same rep ranges

Bentover Barbell Rows (using the T bar and platform) - 3 sets

Dumbell Shrugs - 3 sets (traps usually get sore and are fairly developed, no prob here)

Shoulders

Seated Military Press (in front of face) - 3 sets

Seated Dumbell Press OR Machine Press - 3 sets

Lateral Raises - 3 sets

Dumbell Shrugs - 3 sets, supersetted w/ upright rows

Any suggestions?

[cyounger100]

i usually superset these too 2gether example i will do a set of lat pull downs until failure and then no rest do a shoulder exercise until failure usually do 5 sets like this and i feel sore the next day

[Igifuno]

How long have you been doing that routine and those excersises? You'll benefit greatly from changing up your split, excersise routing and movements every few weeks.

IG

[gbrice75]

How long have you been doing that routine and those excersises? You'll benefit greatly from changing up your split, excersise routing and movements every few weeks.

IG

Well, I've been doing those 'exercises' over the course of the last 1.5 years, but not that exact routine. I do switch it up - sets and reps, order of exercises, etc. - but in the end, how much can you really change up a shoulder routine?

I should note that even when I started out, I didn't get sore in the shoulders - I can count on 1 hand the amount of times they've been sore.

[rocheey]

It was another dude at the gym, that just pointed out to me -today-, that on certain exercises (incidentally, the on the body parts that need it the most), that my form starts deviating near failure (moving the elbows out/in, etc). I normally pride myself on doing perfect reps.

I mean, it wasnt anything drastic - like those guys that end up doing "hyperextensions" midway thru a bicep curl - but Im wondering if that slight deviation is what is keeping me from hitting the target muscle on those last crucial reps.

[gbrice75]

It was another dude at the gym, that just pointed out to me -today-, that on certain exercises (incidentally, the on the body parts that need it the most), that my form starts deviating near failure (moving the elbows out/in, etc). I normally pride myself on doing perfect reps.

I mean, it wasnt anything drastic - like those guys that end up doing "hyperextensions" midway thru a bicep curl - but Im wondering if that slight deviation is what is keeping me from hitting the target muscle on those last crucial reps.

Did you mean to post this in another thread?

[F4iGuy]

Are your weights increasing?

[gbrice75]

No... honestly my weights haven't increased in a year. Now, in all fairness I have been eating 2000 calories/day to shed bodyfat, so I didn't expect to see any huge growth or major difference in additional weight - but at the very least I would have expected to see the muscles 'shape up' which also hasn't happened.

I am now on week 2 of a 3000 calorie diet (still clean, same foods as before, just more of them) in an effort to add some mass. I will reevaluate in another month or so, but I have a bad feeling that my natural test levels may be low and this is part of the problem.

[6ft5]

If your not putting on body weight and not gettn fat. I'd bump my diet 300-500. Get back to the basics for overall strength and size. Heavy bench, sqauts, shoulder presses, ect. Keep your worekouts short and find a spotter just .02. Your only a couple weeks in your cycle, your still on track to grow.

[gbrice75]

If your not putting on body weight and not gettn fat. I'd bump my diet 300-500. Get back to the basics for overall strength and size. Heavy bench, sqauts, shoulder presses, ect. Keep your worekouts short and find a spotter just .02. Your only a couple weeks in your cycle, your still on track to grow.

I hear you, and agree. I do want to give this (current higher caloric intake) a full month before I add more calories, just to see if my body 'catches up', but it would definitely make sense to add calories, especially if i'm not gaining fat. Now, if I find i'm gaining fat but not adding muscle, that's going to be a BIG problem.

[fig]

For shoulders, I've found lighter weight/more reps to help on everything, except shoulder press. Try starting out with heavy shoulder presses - 4 sets. Then lateral raises, light weight, perfect form, make sure you're not using other muscles (my traps kick in if I'm not careful). End it with a drop set...I do 30lb dumbbell for 8, immediate 25lb for 8, 20 for 8, 15 for 8, 10 for 8. Then rest and move to front raises. Use an under-grip and lift to parallel. I usually finish off with some reverse flys, very light weight.

For back, I've have found a tremendous difference if I really concentrate on pinching the muscles. Stay kinda heavy, I love T-Bar rows...probably my favorite exercise. Lat Pull Down (try different grips), One Arm Row, etc. Slow, controlled and flex your lats as hard as you possibly can throughout the exercise. Hope that helps.

[gbrice75]

For shoulders, I've found lighter weight/more reps to help on everything, except shoulder press. Try starting out with heavy shoulder presses - 4 sets. Then lateral raises, light weight, perfect form, make sure you're not using other muscles (my traps kick in if I'm not careful). End it with a drop set...I do 30lb dumbbell for 8, immediate 25lb for 8, 20 for 8, 15 for 8, 10 for 8. Then rest and move to front raises. Use an under-grip and lift to parallel. I usually finish off with some reverse flys, very light weight.

Thanks for the tips - these are pretty much the exercises i'm doing now, so this is good in that I won't have to alter my workout much, just change up weights/sets/reps.

For back, I've have found a tremendous difference if I really concentrate on pinching the muscles. Stay kinda heavy, I love T-Bar rows...probably my favorite exercise. Lat Pull Down (try different grips), One Arm Row, etc. Slow, controlled and flex your lats as hard as you possibly can throughout the exercise. Hope that helps.

Interesting you mention this! I just did back yesterday, went a bit lighter and slower and made sure to squeeze/pinch like you're stating above - I am VERY sore today. Hopefully this is the difference I needed, time will tell.

For T-Bar rows, are you using the standing platform, or the one where you sort of lay on your stomach? I like the standing platform much better, I think it helps overall as you have to stabilize your own bodyweight - much more like the real exercise (barbell row).

Comments above in bold

[Hellboy666]

your not doing enough for shoulders! 3 sets of lateral raises arent enough IMO. I do each body part once a week except abs and calves. But I basically beat the shit out of each body part every work out. I couldnt imagine doing them twice.

[gbrice75]

Hellboy, what would you suggest?

[diesel2030]

Interesting post....

I have noticed over the last month or so I have been circuit training(tryin to drop bodyfat/weight)...never got sore, etc..
Now I am back to normal heavy lifting and I am sore as hell

[YoungGunsNY]

your not doing enough for shoulders! 3 sets of lateral raises arent enough IMO. I do each body part once a week except abs and calves. But I basically beat the shit out of each body part every work out. I couldnt imagine doing them twice.

Shoulders are a smaller muscle group, thus 12 sets are enough!

You can't do over 15 sets for biceps without overtraining can you? Same thing applies to shoulders.

[Hellboy666]

overtrain? your job when you walk into the gym is to literally beat the crap out of each muscle group, so I dont believe you will over train in one work out by doing more than 12 sets for shoulders. Yes there is a point where one can become excessive and pointless. but I train each body part once a week besides abs and calves. I give myself a full week to recover and have no risk of overtraining. I probably do 30 sets for shoulders. I dont stop until I have a sick pump and dripping with sweat. If I dont achieve this then I might as well of not have gone to the gym. Alot of guys are always asking what your rountine and I basically dont have one aside from what body im working that day. If your not sore you are not doing enough. Try traing each part once a week and really beat on those parts that day. You will grow!

[gbrice75]

Well obviously something needs to change. I'll try to up the intensity as well as weight on bigger movements, and lower weight and up sets/reps on the lighter movements (laterals, etc). Tomorrow is shoulder day, so we'll see!

[fig]

Comments above in bold

Glad to hear!! I know with myself, I sometimes catch myself being lazy and not squeezing my lats so try to be aware of it throughout your entire back workout. For T-Bar, we don't have anything setup so I just use a Barbell wedged in the corner of the squat rack.

[fig]

Comments above in bold

You just got 1000 posts btw

[gbrice75]

Senior member, yay!

I beat the shit outta my shoulders today, even was able to go up 10lbs on dumbell press (10lbs each). We'll see how they feel tomorrow!

[gbrice75]

Woke up this morning, ZERO soreness. I don't know wtf is going on, but i'm frustrated as hell. They don't get sore, they don't grow, WTF? There's nothing more I could have done in that gym yesterday short of doing 100 sets.

[lovbyts]

I have a buddy who is the same way. He says it's been years since he has been sore. IMHO he has not grown in years either but there is NO way I can tell him anything...

We use to work out together YEARS ago. Due to life (to much/long to tell or bore you with now) I stopped for almost 20 years. In 2 years I have now surpassed him in size. He is still stronger I think but he does not have the size/shape I have.

I am ALWAYS sore. I dont remember what it's like to now be sore 1 or 2 days after working out. I frequently switch up my routine. One week I will use this or that for doing back then I will use something else the next time or 2 or 3 weeks later. Same with bench, curls, legs. Not only changing from free weights to machine but from what type of exercise I use.

I am sore pretty much 24/7 lol.

[6ft5]

I am soar all the time 2. I like what you said in your last post bout lifting. Think your on the right track. Althogh its the day after the day is when I get stiff and soar. Grab the closest guy or person in there for a spot. You hafta go past falure to tear your muscles with real strict motion. even get a spot on last couple reps in all sets. all execises, think that's what you need. Gota kill in the gym to grow. Example for me: ill throw 50's up on 3rd set lat raises. To say HELLO, then drop down to what ever I can get 10 pretty strict reps, 30-40lbs even 25 some days then I find a spot and blast out like 12-8 spot on past falure last 2-3 reps try and static squeez at top. More static drop to 20's if want more squeez. I always change workouts too. Usualy I do one body part a week but every once in a whyle I try a DC workout for a shock and grow. Yesterday I did. Conc curls, low cable rows, standing legg curls, calf raises. Straight bar precher curls. It was a sweet workout! Kinda a lagg workout.

[gbrice75]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I really don't know what i'm doing wrong - I feel like my workouts are pretty intense. Granted, without a spotter i'm not hitting 100% true failure, and in my mind that would mean I won't grow at my maximum potential, not that I won't grow AT ALL. I just don't get it!

[Twist]

truly need a spotter.

[gbrice75]

I hear you Twist - not many people in the gym at 5:30am, unfortunately! I'll do my best to grab somebody whenever possible.

[rickrick55]

you ever tried upright rows for your shoulders?

[scorgasm]

This worked really well for me..

SHOULDERS


1. Lateral Raise with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

2. Standing or Seated Barbell Presses x 6-10 reps



Perform two rounds of the above, rest for two to three minutes then perform two rounds of the following:



3. Bentover Lateral with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

4. Front Raises with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

5. Standing or Seated Dumbbell Press x 6-10 reps

After 4 weeks go back to your normal routine, as you would probably start overtraining, unless you're juicing

[gbrice75]

you ever tried upright rows for your shoulders?

Yes, I usually do upright rows immediately following shrugs just to get that extra 'pinch' on the traps, and it's a decent supplementary exercise for my lateral delts as well. Still nothing though!

[gbrice75]

This worked really well for me..

SHOULDERS


1. Lateral Raise with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

2. Standing or Seated Barbell Presses x 6-10 reps



Perform two rounds of the above, rest for two to three minutes then perform two rounds of the following:



3. Bentover Lateral with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

4. Front Raises with dumbbells x 8-12 reps, immediately followed by

5. Standing or Seated Dumbbell Press x 6-10 reps

After 4 weeks go back to your normal routine, as you would probably start overtraining, unless you're juicing

That pretty much is my routine in terms of exercises, although I don't perform them in that order. The main difference is that when I do front raises, I do them with a barbell and underhand grip as it seems to put less tension on the 'boney' part of my shouders. Either way, i'm willing to give this exact routine a shot to see if there's any difference. Shoulder day is Friday, I will update again after Friday.

[warrhoggxx]

try including some power cleans, bb rows from the floor and use cables for your lateral raises for a while

cleans 6x 12,10,5-8,5-8,5-8,12
ss-rows from floor 5x 6-8
ss-med grip pull downs 4x 10-12

seated db press 5x 8-10
ss-cable side lateral raises 3x 10-12
ss-front db raise 3x10-12
face pulls 2 sec hold 3x 12

for ss I go back and forth with 1.30 average between sets

[rocheey]

Did you mean to post this in another thread?

light weight, perfect form, make sure you're not using other muscles (my traps kick in if I'm not careful).

No, I just worded it as "me", when I was really asking if you were 'cheating' as I was on the reps. Fig 's reply was much clearer

[scorgasm]

That pretty much is my routine in terms of exercises, although I don't perform them in that order. The main difference is that when I do front raises, I do them with a barbell and underhand grip as it seems to put less tension on the 'boney' part of my shouders. Either way, i'm willing to give this exact routine a shot to see if there's any difference. Shoulder day is Friday, I will update again after Friday.

just to make myself more clear,1-2 then 3-5 are supersets.. unless thats what uve tried, then nvm this msg lol

[songdog]

I read Ronnie Rolands routine.Once a week each bodypart.Thats wat I do.But at 51.I lose intencety fast.So I only do 1 bodypart per day.Yes I am sore when I am done.I have always did a powerlifter routine.But with Ronnies routine it wears me out.But I love it and the results are great.But I am always sore.I never was with the 5x5 or my powerlifting routine.But I am doing more reps less rest.