How many f*cking times!!! Grow into your dose!!

[marcus300]

Ive got a study somewhere swifto what shows the differences regarding dose vs muscle building and if i remember right it states 300mgs is the minimum to use to see benefits, i will see if i can locate it and send it to you.

I agree, to many people increase the dose when its not needed, when all they need to do is increase their calories to suit their new muscle mass, food is the key

[Swifto]

Fair enough, always build up from lower dosages.
But some people actually need alot bigger dosages then some others to grow (genetics)

I have a friend, a big guy. Very strong, very big. All he did while cutting was running 250mg of test, he actually gained a little on all his bodyparts, except waist which he reduced significantly.

Now, NOBODY else I know can do anything close to this. I wast just trying to make a point of genetics

Yeah, genetics are key.

Some NEED more, but 80% of the time their diets or training is off.

Ive got a study somewhere swifto what shows the differences regarding dose vs muscle building and if i remember right it states 300mgs is the minimum to use to see benefits, i will see if i can locate it and send it to you.

I agree, to many people increase the dose when its not needed, when all they need to do is increase their calories to suit their new muscle mass, food is the key

D7M and I talked about this once, but I dont see how thats possible seeing as 250mg/wk exogenous T will put TT levels over 1000ng/dl. Thats like arguing you cant gain on anything less than a natural total T amount of 1000ng/dl, which is utter garbage.

[The Wolfman]

Yeah, genetics are key.

Some NEED more, but 80% of the time their diets or training is off.

I agree!

[marcus300]

Yeah, genetics are key.

Some NEED more, but 80% of the time their diets or training is off.



D7M and I talked about this once, but I dont see how thats possible seeing as 250mg/wk exogenous T will put TT levels over 1000ng/dl. Thats like arguing you cant gain on anything less than a natural total T amount of 1000ng/dl, which is utter garbage.

Well converting that into muscle growth is another matter, in some people they need to be in the higher range even when they first start off, but from my experience I would say 400mgs is a good starting dose which will reward you with some decent gains. I also think there is enough people around these kind of fourms what will give good feedback on this matter, to be honest i dont really know where this 500mgs per wk thing came from but it does seem to of caught on lol... let me see if i can find this study because its that long ago i might not be remembering it correctly but i do remember it made interesting reading.

[Swifto]

I cant be bothered to type it ALL out, but in this study, LBM increased by "2.9kg" (DEXA) over 16 weeks at 125mg/wk exogenous T. "3.4kg" (underwater weighing) as shown in table 3.

Thigh volume increased from "890" to "966" a change of "56" (ANOVA) points in the 125mg/wk group.

Quad volume increased from "508" to "566" a change of "21" (ANOVA) points in the 125mg/wk group.

The only important hormone that didnt really go up in the 125mg/wk group was IGF-1. It actually went down. It increases in the 300mg/wk and 600mg/wk groups respectively.

However, its clear to see gains were made on 125mg/wk even though IGF-1 didnt go up.

[shennen]

Hey guys, good discussion. I've been readin a lot about this lately, as my first cycle was one to remember for sure.
I stupidly gave myself 1.5g of sust for five weeks, then 600 for the last seven. Im on my fifth day of pct now.
Im just trying to plan for my next cycle as I want it to be perfectly prepared and no regrets. Im amazed I didn't get injured on that much tbh. Anyway, what the f will my next dose be?

Second cycle so id like to keep it just test, maybe winny or dbol, but would say 500mg/wk of say test c be ineffective because I've already touched so high on my last?

Hope this isn't off topic, know its kinda borderline. Thanks.

[Swifto]

Yes that's the study what i was referring to, there was only 2 groups what i would class as significant at muscle building and that was the 300mgs and the 600mgs. The jump from 2.9kgs to 5.2kg (11.4lbs) when using 300mgs is far more significant with the gains us bodybuilders would look for and for the 600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase sure does tell you that testosterone works lol. But saying that ive had great experiences with 125mgs (hrt dose) but i wouldnt say I built anything but more maintained.

250-300mg/wk for a bodybuilder is the minimum for additional gains IMHO. But even the 125mg/wk Test group gained roughly 7.5lbs. Thats not a bad result on a measly 125mg/wk.

Hey guys, good discussion. I've been readin a lot about this lately, as my first cycle was one to remember for sure.
I stupidly gave myself 1.5g of sust for five weeks, then 600 for the last seven. Im on my fifth day of pct now.
Im just trying to plan for my next cycle as I want it to be perfectly prepared and no regrets. Im amazed I didn't get injured on that much tbh. Anyway, what the f will my next dose be?

Second cycle so id like to keep it just test, maybe winny or dbol, but would say 500mg/wk of say test c be ineffective because I've already touched so high on my last?

Hope this isn't off topic, know its kinda borderline. Thanks.

No, of course not.

Look at the example I gave and other examples in this thread. Just because you have tocuhed a certain dose, it doesnt mean your receptors wont respond to smaller doses.

At 500mg/wk I gained a fair amount of LBM and got to 200lbs. Didnt cycle properly again for a while, then used 350mg/wk and got upto around 220lbs. 20lbs heavier than I was at 500mg/wk.

I just want to be clear that larger doses DO MEAN more gains. Thats proved by the study I just posted, but for 80-90% of us that havent totally levelled out using diet and training. I mean, properly levelled out (IFBB), then additional doses and compounds and genetics play a much more important role. However, thats not applicable to the vast majority of user's/members here and most other forums.