Does anyone use proviron with every cycle?

[dec11]

Estrogen is a carcinogen and should be controlled in males, symptoms or not IMHO.

Massive estrogen levels have no positive effects what so ever.

so although some dont get symptoms are you saying they still will have the massively elevated estro levels that would show symptoms on me?

[Swifto]

so although some dont get symptoms are you saying they still will have the massively elevated estro levels that would show symptoms on me?

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone. It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

[MR10X]

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone. It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

Also the less the estro conversion the more available test there is which is a plus...

[dec11]

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone. It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

[Juice Authority]

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

Pharma grade AI's can run a pretty penny. They're certainly not cheap.

[Swifto]

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.

Pharma grade AI's can run a pretty penny. They're certainly not cheap.

Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

[dec11]

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.



Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

yeah but my previous logic was dont take em if you dont need them, i didnt realise that just because one doesnt show symptoms doesnt mean that estro isnt sky high. i'll be recommending them from the get go from now on.

my adex is made/distributed by Teva btw and was shockingly expensive!!

[Juice Authority]

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.

Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin, while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

[Swifto]

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin, while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

Arimidex and Letro have been shown to inhibit IGF by around 10-12%, so its not going to make much of a difference. Exogenous testosterone also raises IGF, so again, its not going to make much of a difference.

As for Aromasin/Exemestane, anything that inhibits estorgen is going to decrease IGF becuase of the way GH and IGF are synthesised. I'm almost certain there is data showing Aromasin lowers serum IGF. I will have a look.

Yup, China and India dont give a shit, patent or not.

[Swifto]

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin, while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Nelly Mauras, John Lima, Deval Patel, Annie Rini, Enrico di Salle, Ambrose Kwok and Barbara Lippe

Nemours Children’s Clinic and Research Programs (N.M., J.L., A.R.), Jacksonville, Florida 32207; and University of Florida Health Sciences Center (D.P.) and Amersham Pharmacia Biotech (E.d.S., A.K., B.L.), Peapack, New Jersey 07977


Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.



May be not...