how bad actually is clen for ur heart?

[Lemonada8]

wow looks like i missed a fun debate..

well since clen is a beta2 agonist but its ingested, it will have some spill over onto the beta1 receptors on the heart.
in the cases where clen looked to be cardiac protective, its protective because of that spillover onto beta1 receptors on the heart which increases contractility and HR in those with a failing heart. So it made the heart work harder while taking the meds, then (skimmed over some of the papers indicated) it helps regenerate the heart muscle to a point but that is still in a failing heart. So in that case, it was used properly for its use and it has its benefits.
On the other hand, bber's usually dont have those kind of heart issues and already put alot of strain on their heart anyways (with their diets, heavy lifting, and general life style) so those are predisposed to heart issues will and can have problems while taking clen, due to the spill over on beta1 receptors.
Needless to say, in a healthy person, it is all dose dependent and how they react to the stimulant individually. People with heart failure will be able to take a much larger dose w/o the bad effects because its helping their heart beat more efficiently.. those w/o the heart issues it will make the heart work harder.
It prolly has its place to help with weight loss, and since its 2nd messanger is cAMP it prolongs the effects of glucagon which increases fat burining for energy. But with a crap diet, it prolly wont do much at all.

[The Bear 79]

wow looks like i missed a fun debate..

well since clen is a beta2 agonist but its ingested, it will have some spill over onto the beta1 receptors on the heart.
in the cases where clen looked to be cardiac protective, its protective because of that spillover onto beta1 receptors on the heart which increases contractility and HR in those with a failing heart. So it made the heart work harder while taking the meds, then (skimmed over some of the papers indicated) it helps regenerate the heart muscle to a point but that is still in a failing heart. So in that case, it was used properly for its use and it has its benefits.
On the other hand, bber's usually dont have those kind of heart issues and already put alot of strain on their heart anyways (with their diets, heavy lifting, and general life style) so those are predisposed to heart issues will and can have problems while taking clen, due to the spill over on beta1 receptors.
Needless to say, in a healthy person, it is all dose dependent and how they react to the stimulant individually. People with heart failure will be able to take a much larger dose w/o the bad effects because its helping their heart beat more efficiently.. those w/o the heart issues it will make the heart work harder.
It prolly has its place to help with weight loss, and since its 2nd messanger is cAMP it prolongs the effects of glucagon which increases fat burining for energy. But with a crap diet, it prolly wont do much at all.

So, if u already hav heart problems, Clen is good, but if u hav a healthy / normal heart, Clen will giv u heart problems?

[jimmyinkedup]

wow looks like i missed a fun debate..

well since clen is a beta2 agonist but its ingested, it will have some spill over onto the beta1 receptors on the heart.
in the cases where clen looked to be cardiac protective, its protective because of that spillover onto beta1 receptors on the heart which increases contractility and HR in those with a failing heart. So it made the heart work harder while taking the meds, then (skimmed over some of the papers indicated) it helps regenerate the heart muscle to a point but that is still in a failing heart. So in that case, it was used properly for its use and it has its benefits.
On the other hand, bber's usually dont have those kind of heart issues and already put alot of strain on their heart anyways (with their diets, heavy lifting, and general life style) so those are predisposed to heart issues will and can have problems while taking clen, due to the spill over on beta1 receptors.
Needless to say, in a healthy person, it is all dose dependent and how they react to the stimulant individually. People with heart failure will be able to take a much larger dose w/o the bad effects because its helping their heart beat more efficiently.. those w/o the heart issues it will make the heart work harder.
It prolly has its place to help with weight loss, and since its 2nd messanger is cAMP it prolongs the effects of glucagon which increases fat burining for energy. But with a crap diet, it prolly wont do much at all.

Clen is a slective beta agonist. Ive read several studies (and no i dont feel like looking for them) that showed while it has some affinity for b1 receptors it has virtually no agonist properties at the b1 receptor. Thats why its used to reverse airway obsruction. It can accomplish this effect with little cardiovascular impact. If it was a non selective beta agonist that would be a different story - but it isnt.

[Lemonada8]

Clen is a slective beta agonist. Ive read several studies (and no i dont feel like looking for them) that showed while it has some affinity for b1 receptors it has virtually no agonist properties at the b1 receptor. Thats why its used to reverse airway obsruction. It can accomplish this effect with little cardiovascular impact. If it was a non selective beta agonist that would be a different story - but it isnt.

That doesnt make sense... beta1 and beta2 have the same 2nd messanger cAMP. How can it be agonist for one and no agonist properties for the other? If beta selective were so selective for no cross activation, then why arent all asthma meds a pill? thats cuz they arent. They can modify it so its not as selective but there will be some cross activation. also, thermo genics is mainly beta3 receptor which clen is a thermogenic.

[jimmyinkedup]

That doesnt make sense... beta1 and beta2 have the same 2nd messanger cAMP. How can it be agonist for one and no agonist properties for the other? If beta selective were so selective for no cross activation, then why arent all asthma meds a pill? thats cuz they arent. They can modify it so its not as selective but there will be some cross activation. also, thermo genics is mainly beta3 receptor which clen is a thermogenic.

^^^ How can it not make sense - its called selective - not exclusive - look at the bigger picture and think about it for a minute. There are a slew of selective beta receptor agents (think beta blaockers). These agents exist for b1 - b2 - b3 receptors. Some are so selective ( even exclusive) that they are used in experimentation due to there extreme specificity. Also stop think in absolutes such as "no agonist" and stick to what i said "virtually no agonist" - ie - no clinically significant agonist activity. Also the same can be said for clens b3 agonist effects. While they exist it is to a lesser degree. Also just because cAMP is second messeneger for b1 and b2 far from means the same agonist activity is exerted on boith - you know that. I personally would say clens effects are primarily exerted on b2 ...then to a lesser extent b3 ...then minimally on b1 . Thats just my opinion - but I think its pretty damn sound based on science and experience.

[Lemonada8]

^^^ How can it not make sense - its called selective - not exclusive - look at the bigger picture and think about it for a minute. There are a slew of selective beta receptor agents (think beta blaockers). These agents exist for b1 - b2 - b3 receptors. Some are so selective ( even exclusive) that they are used in experimentation due to there extreme specificity. Also stop think in absolutes such as "no agonist" and stick to what i said "virtually no agonist" - ie - no clinically significant agonist activity. Also the same can be said for clens b3 agonist effects. While they exist it is to a lesser degree. Also just because cAMP is second messeneger for b1 and b2 far from means the same agonist activity is exerted on boith - you know that. I personally would say clens effects are primarily exerted on b2 ...then to a lesser extent b3 ...then minimally on b1 . Thats just my opinion - but I think its pretty damn sound based on science and experience.

this is just arguing sematics. Minamally b1 agonsim is going to differ between people, and the point i was trying to make is that those with a healthy heart are going to have more potential issues than someone with heart failure/heart contractility issues. Thats when it become dose dependent. The only real thing between people is that it will hit b2 receptors more than the other 2, but that doesnt stop it from hitting all of them.
And for the use in chronic heart failure, it does have a clinical significance because it does increase contractility of the heart making it beat stronger (in a weak heart)

[mjt]

Hi. With all the mixed opinions, mixed data, and variations from person to person it might be wise to just watch your diet, up the cardio not pushing it to hard. I find cardio has been the best way for me to lose weight. It might now come off FAST, but it comes off just fine. Good Luck with your decision.