You'll want to read this!

[dooie]

[QUOTE=VASCULAR VINCE;5999391]here be a crazy question..anabolics..are they a sin for christians to use?? preacher at gym said it was sinful due to being illegal substance..I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THAT PREACHER BUT DO UNDERSTAND WHERE HES COMING FROM. IT'S ALL IN HOW YOU USE SOMETHING AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HOW YOU ACT. IF STEROIDS MAKE YOU COCKY, SINGLE MINDED, TURN YOU INTO A BULLY/HOT HEAD, OR A SCAMMER THEN YES IT WOULD BE A SIN. IF YOU TAKE STEROIDS AND LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR THEN I DO NOT SEE USING THEM AS BEING A SIN GIVEN YOU DO NOT TAKE SO MUCH YOU DESTROY THE TEMPLE WHICH IS YOUR BODY. THE BIBLE TEACHES IT'S NOT WHAT GOES INTO A MAN THAT DEFILES HIM BUT WHAT COMES OUT AND GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART NOT MAN (THIS INCLUDES ALL PREACHERS!)

AND LIKE I TOLD DOOIE REGARDING STEROIDS BEING ILLEGAL IN THE U.S- "If it's a sin to use anabolics in the u.s. where they are illegal then it's still a sin to use them in countires where it's legal. For example; the bible teaches that jesus turned water into wine and said drink and be merry (just for the record i do not drink alcohol anymore nor do i condone a lifestye of drunkedness which is the abuse of alcohol but i do not judge others who do so). now during the prohibition it was man (government and a fairly cooked one at that that made alcohol illegal). Now did that mean during that era that it was now sinful in gods eyes for those who drank illegally but it was okay for those in other countries to drink if it was still legal? That would make no sense at all! And would it mean that since our government has once again legalized alcohol it's not a sin anymore to drink. My point being is that man (crooked/messed up goverment) made steroids illegal back in the 80's not GOD so I do not see it as a sin if used properly.Unfortunately our goverment continues to make poor decisions which have a negative impact on everyone's well being." /QUOTE]ABOVE

I respectfully disagree Ronnie,

If something is illegal in your country, then the bible says to obey the laws of the land, so therefore it's a sin to go against those laws, hence you will get a fine, jail etc for breaking those rules, for example, if the law states in Australia the max speed I can do is 110, and go to Germany on the autobahn, rent a porsche, I will definitely not do 110km/h and I will not be 'sinning' as I haven't broken any rules!

This is where conviction comes into play!! If I believe, that it's a sin no matter what to take steroids than I am convicted to stay true to that conviction anywhere I go!
But if I was born in a country where steroids are not illegal, than it isnt a sin, but if I come to Australia and continue doing them, I am going against the laws of the land and therefore sinning, what ur kind of doing is expressing how u view the bible not by what it actually says

[The Titan99]

Thanks Ron. A definitive answer from a leading authority. Just what this board needed. I suspected as much...

[Ronnie Rowland]

[QUOTE=dooie;6003739][QUOTE." /QUOTE]ABOVE

I respectfully disagree Ronnie,

If something is illegal in your country, then the bible says to obey the laws of the land, so therefore it's a sin to go against those laws, hence you will get a fine, jail etc for breaking those rules, for example, if the law states in Australia the max speed I can do is 110, and go to Germany on the autobahn, rent a porsche, I will definitely not do 110km/h and I will not be 'sinning' as I haven't broken any rules! But if I was born in a country where steroids are not illegal, than it isnt a sin, but if I come to Australia and continue doing them, I am going against the laws of the land and therefore sinning, what ur kind of doing is expressing how u view the bible not by what it actually says [B]WE ARE GETTING OFF THE SUBJECT OF BODYBUILDING HERE BUT I FEEL THE NEED TO STATE MY OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER SINCE I HAVE STUDIED THE BIBLE EXTENSIVELY IN THE PAST. FIRST OF ALL COMMITTING VARIOUS SINS IS NOT WHAT KEEPS ONE OUT OF HEAVEN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. THE ONLY SIN THAT WILL KEEP ONE OUT OF HEAVEN IS REJECTING JESUS CHRIST. IN THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA WHERE I RESIDE IT'S ILLEGAL TO HAVE ORAL SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE. LIKE THATS GOING TO HAPPEN!? LOL..BUT IF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS TRUE THEN IT WOULD BE A SIN TO HAVE ORAL SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE JUST BECAUSE SOME BUREAUCRAT IN WASHINGTON D.C. CAME UP WITH SOME LAME BRAIN IDEA JUST AS THEY HAVE WITH STEROIDS. THINK ABOUT THIS-WHEN GEORGE BUSH WAS IN OFFICE HE MADE IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE A PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. BUT WHEN OBAMA STEPPED INTO OFFICE HE LEGALIZED PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. DOES THIS MEAN IT'S OKAY IN THE EYES OF GOD TO HAVE AN ABORTION NOW SINCE ITS LEGAL YET IT WAS WRONG ONLY 3 YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS ILLEGAL? WHOSE LAW IS RIGHT-GODS OR MANS? ALSO GOD NEVER SAYS USING STEROIDS IS A SIN!

I AM OF THE OPINION THAT GOD MADE SEX (ANYTHING BETTER HE KEPT FOR HIMSELF-NO PUN INTENDED) AND WANTS EVERY MARRIED COUPLE TO EXPERIENCE GREAT SEX ON A REGULAR BASIS INCLUDING ORAL SEX, ETC. ON AND ON I COULD GO WITH THESE CRAZY LAWS OF THE LAND THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE BY MAN. THE BIG PICTURE IS THIS-NO ONE GETS TO HEAVEN BY OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND OR EVEN GODS LAWS PER SE. ROMANS CHPT 3 VS 20-"THEREFORE BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN". JAMES CHPT 2 VS 10-"FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL". GOD PUT DOWN A STRICT LAW, THEN JESUS CAME AND MADE IT EVEN STRICTER TO SHOW US ALL THAT WE COULD NOT KEEP ALL HIS LAWS AND THAT WE ARE ALL SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOUR. YOU CANNOT WORK YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN BY GOOD DEEDS NOR BY AVOIDING A PARTICULAR SIN BUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN BORN AGAIN BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD WILL LOVE GOD AND HIS NEIGHBOR AS I STATED IN THE LAST POST. I HOPE THIS HELPS AND I'LL END WITH THIS NOTE - In the state of S.C. where I live it is perfectly legal to beat your wife on the court house steps on Sundays. [/B]..lol/QUOTE]ABOVE

[The Titan99]

[QUOTE=Ronnie Rowland;6004496]

[QUOTE." /QUOTE]ABOVE

I respectfully disagree Ronnie,

If something is illegal in your country, then the bible says to obey the laws of the land, so therefore it's a sin to go against those laws, hence you will get a fine, jail etc for breaking those rules, for example, if the law states in Australia the max speed I can do is 110, and go to Germany on the autobahn, rent a porsche, I will definitely not do 110km/h and I will not be 'sinning' as I haven't broken any rules! But if I was born in a country where steroids are not illegal, than it isnt a sin, but if I come to Australia and continue doing them, I am going against the laws of the land and therefore sinning, what ur kind of doing is expressing how u view the bible not by what it actually says [B]WE ARE GETTING OFF THE SUBJECT OF BODYBUILDING HERE BUT I FEEL THE NEED TO STATE MY OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER SINCE I HAVE STUDIED THE BIBLE EXTENSIVELY IN THE PAST. FIRST OF ALL COMMITTING VARIOUS SINS IS NOT WHAT KEEPS ONE OUT OF HEAVEN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. THE ONLY SIN THAT WILL KEEP ONE OUT OF HEAVEN IS REJECTING JESUS CHRIST. IN THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA WHERE I RESIDE IT'S ILLEGAL TO HAVE ORAL SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE. LIKE THATS GOING TO HAPPEN!? LOL..BUT IF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS TRUE THEN IT WOULD BE A SIN TO HAVE ORAL SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE JUST BECAUSE SOME BUREAUCRAT IN WASHINGTON D.C. CAME UP WITH SOME LAME BRAIN IDEA JUST AS THEY HAVE WITH STEROIDS. THINK ABOUT THIS-WHEN GEORGE BUSH WAS IN OFFICE HE MADE IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE A PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. BUT WHEN OBAMA STEPPED INTO OFFICE HE LEGALIZED PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION. DOES THIS MEAN IT'S OKAY IN THE EYES OF GOD TO HAVE AN ABORTION NOW SINCE ITS LEGAL YET IT WAS WRONG ONLY 3 YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS ILLEGAL? WHOSE LAW IS RIGHT-GODS OR MANS? ALSO GOD NEVER SAYS USING STEROIDS IS A SIN!

I AM OF THE OPINION THAT GOD MADE SEX (ANYTHING BETTER HE KEPT FOR HIMSELF-NO PUN INTENDED) AND WANTS EVERY MARRIED COUPLE TO EXPERIENCE GREAT SEX ON A REGULAR BASIS INCLUDING ORAL SEX, ETC. ON AND ON I COULD GO WITH THESE CRAZY LAWS OF THE LAND THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE BY MAN. THE BIG PICTURE IS THIS-NO ONE GETS TO HEAVEN BY OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND OR EVEN GODS LAWS PER SE. ROMANS CHPT 3 VS 20-"THEREFORE BY THE DEEDS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN". JAMES CHPT 2 VS 10-"FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL". GOD PUT DOWN A STRICT LAW, THEN JESUS CAME AND MADE IT EVEN STRICTER TO SHOW US ALL THAT WE COULD NOT KEEP ALL HIS LAWS AND THAT WE ARE ALL SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOUR. YOU CANNOT WORK YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN BY GOOD DEEDS NOR BY AVOIDING A PARTICULAR SIN BUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN BORN AGAIN BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD WILL LOVE GOD AND HIS NEIGHBOR AS I STATED IN THE LAST POST. I HOPE THIS HELPS AND I'LL END WITH THIS NOTE - In the state of S.C. where I live it is perfectly legal to beat your wife on the court house steps on Sundays. [/B]..lol/QUOTE]ABOVE

Whoever passed that law never saw your wife Ron!!! LOL!!

[Ronnie Rowland]

[QUOTE=The Titan99;6004770]

Whoever passed that law never saw your wife Ron!!! LOL!!

LOL..ISN'T THAT THE TRUTH!

[VASCULAR VINCE]

Bigron...is masteron.....strong enough to prevent.......prostate cancer......from aromatizing anabolics??? Why is arimidex pushed so much???

[VASCULAR VINCE]

bigron..number 1 ASS building exercise ...for females???

[VASCULAR VINCE]

bigron..agree..or..disagree..with article??


The Great Oral Debate: Anadrol vs. Dianabol
By Gavin Kane

For many years, a great debate has raged over which oral is superior for mass gains, and two of them have stood the test of time; dianabol and anadrol. The debate has continued, arguing which of the two is superior, yet no conclusive evidence has proven one better than the other. People respond to each one differently, some swearing by dbol and some swearing by anadrol. Before we declare one the winner, I am going to go over a bit of history and chemical structure on both products.

anadrol (oxymetholone) was first made available in the 1960’s by Syntex. It is very effective at increasing red blood cell production and was promising for treating severe cases of anemia. With the advent of newer and more advanced drugs such as Erythropoietin, which have less androgenic side effects, anadrol was discontinued. New studies in AIDS/HIV patients revealed anadrol was particularly effective at reducing wasting symptoms so it was re-released in the late 1990’s.

Oxymetholone is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone, which in theory means it should not convert to estrogen. Since it does not aromatize but still causes gynecomastia in some users, there are other pathways by which it converts. After looking at studies on AIDS patients, I found that it may convert by actively activating the estrogen receptor, so this is a product that would need an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex.

dianabol (methandrostenolone) was first made in 1956 by John Zieglar of Ciba fame. dianabol has been one of the most por oral steroids of all time, exploding in pority in the 1970’s with bodybuilders and football players and expanding into all avenues of athletics during the 1980’s. It somewhat waned during the 1990’s with the steroid control act, but was hot again in the early 2000’s with reproduction in mass quantities by Mexican labs and underground labs.
Methandrostenolone is a derivative of testosterone and hence will convert to estrogen. gynecomastia will be a concern for sure, in almost all users, whereas only less than 25% have problems with anadrol. Again water retention will be a problem, usually due to the estrogenic properties.

Both products will have similar androgenic side effects, which include; acne, water retention, oily skin, male pattern baldness, and increased body hair growth. Both drugs are c17 alpha alkylated, therefore Liver protection will be necessary, especially when combining the two.

So we come to the premise of this article, anadrol vs. dianabol. Why, the great debate over which product to take? They work on different pathways, have similar side effects you will have to combat, and both are Liver toxic. So why is there a debate over which is better and which one should you take? Well, as I stated earlier, different people have different responses to each product. Many people, including myself, find high doses of anadrol to be too much to handle in trade of the results you get. With this product, I have an extreme loss of appetite, massive water retention, and overall aches and pains and headaches.

On the other hand, when I take dianabol, I get a general sense of well-being, good but not great size gains, and the ability to keep eating. It sounds like I should keep taking dianabol and drop the anadrol, right? Wrong. I get massive male pattern baldness from dianabol, which I do not experience from anadrol. I have an increase in blood pressure levels at doses that are high enough to match my gains from anadrol, and I have to shorten my cycles because of the massive dosages I take to get good gains. So in all, I get some side effects from each that I would like to avoid, while still retaining the great benefits that I can only get from each product.

anadrol is well known for its ability to cause massive size and strength increases, and as we all know, a stronger muscle has to become a bigger muscle with enough calories to feed it. dianabol gives me large, quality muscle gains without as much water retention as anadrol. So what is the compromise? Do I take one during one cycle and then the other product during my next cycle?

The answer is no to both. There is no need to short change yourself gains in either department when you can have your Cake and eat it too. I am not alone in my assessments of both products. Most guys have similar issues of massive water retention, headaches and loss of appetite with anadrol, and MPB and fewer gains with dianabol comparatively. So, the best thing we can do is decrease our dosages of both products to cut down on side-effects and take them at the same time to increase the benefits.

My recommendation is to take both products in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. dianabol has been found to work much better for quality gains when taken in lower dosages but for longer periods of time. High doses have severe side effects in some users, a loss of all gains with cessation of the product because of the short cycle (4-6 weeks) and most of the aforementioned side-effects.

Your dosages will be cycle history dependent but when I was at the peak of my career, I was taking cycles of 200mg dianabol for 6 weeks per cycle, or 250-300mg anadrol per 6 week cycle. In later cycles when I decided to combine the two products together, I was able to drop my dianabol use to 50mg per day, and my anadrol use to 100mg per day and because of the synergistic effect of the two products combined, the effect was similar to high doses of each but with none of the sides. There is something very synergistic when taking these two products together with just a simple cycle of testosterone and deca-durabolin.

I would run my anadrol cycles for 8 weeks at that dose and my dianabol cycles for 10 weeks at that low dose with no Liver toxic effects as proven by my quarterly blood tests. I did not have to take liver protectants, but I recommend them for most users. I no longer had to watch my blood pressure, my water retention was minimal compared to earlier cycles, and I was able to continue eating massive amounts of food because I did not experience appetite loss from a massive dose of anadrol.

I highly recommend on your next bulking cycle you try the following: A base cycle of test and deca, add in the anadrol and dianabol mix, and some Nolvadex. You will be able to control your water retention, Liver toxicity, and other side effects by controlling your dosages. Your doses will vary from mine, but just adjust accordingly and run them for longer periods of time. You will be amazed at the simplicity of this cycle and yet the synergy is un-describable. Your gains will be far better than you have ever had when taking each product alone, your side effects will be less than if you were to take either product in higher doses, thanks to the different biochemical pathways. Everyone already knows that test and anadrol, and deca and dbol are very synergistic. Now combine all four in a cycle and watch yourself just blow up.

[Ronnie Rowland]

[QUOTE=VASCULAR VINCE;6006776]bigron..number 1 ASS building exercise ...for females??? Smith machine barbell lunges using a (reebok step up as used in aerobics/body pump classes in order to get down deeper and make those glutes work even harder than a standard lunge.). /QUOTE]above

[Ronnie Rowland]

Bigron...is masteron.....strong enough to prevent.......prostate cancer......from aromatizing anabolics??? Why is arimidex pushed so much??? I am assuming you are under the impression that estrogen causes prostate cancer but this has never been proven. In fact, androgens such as testosterone has been thought to play a role in the development of prostate cancer. Other types of hormones, such as (IGF-1) may also be associated with some types of prostate cancer. That said, we don't really know for certain what causes prostate cancer but we do know that prostate cancer will not develop if young males are castrated which eliminates androgen output. We also know that guys who develop prostate cancer are put on estrogen inorder to keep it from spreading or becoming worse even though estrogen is a known carcogenic to some degree. Estrogen can also help protect the prostate from inflammation and carogenesis. CLEAR AS MUD..EH!? [B]I am of the opinion that steroids like testosterone that convert over to estrogen have never been proven to cause prostate cancer and any steroid could cause the prostate to become enlarged in some people. So, no one really knows what causes prostate cancer at this time! If estrogen where the culprit then I would say yes to masteron being strong enough to prevent prostate cancer from forming in general but there's no conclusive evidence about what really causes prostate cancer. All we really know is that smoking causes cancer in many cases! Arimidex is nothing special and too strong for some people because it lowers estrogen too far and it can cause miserable side effects. It became popular on the boards back in the 90's and it just sort of hung around as a staple drug if needed. [/B]

above

[VASCULAR VINCE]

above

you..always make sense ron!!! thanks a bunch bro!!

[VASCULAR VINCE]

[QUOTE=The Titan99;6004770]

Whoever passed that law never saw your wife Ron!!! LOL!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!