Knowledgeable Member
Want it to be clear that I'm not trying to argue with you, hoping you had some insight on this actually, isn't caffeine a vasoconstrictor and arginine a vasodilator? I know he didn't say anything about arginine, but I know a lot of ppl take preworkout which is mainly arginine. Would they b counter productive?Originally Posted by Turkish Juicer
-TroN-
Knowledgeable Member
TroN,
I feel completely fine over the idea of being argued against. After all, this is a forum and I believe the sole purpose beneath its foundation was to allow members to interact in an environment where intellectual debate is a big part of.
I suggested Caffeine simply because it helps with a series of processes that are obviously vital for a lifter, if not vital for other sports also. It helps with focus, delays physical and mental exhaustion, helps burn more fat during and after training, studies show that it is a great aiding agent for post-workout recovery also. These angles all refer to the edge us lifters look forward to while training, which is also a big reason why we juice.
As for your question, after having interacted with Cialis as I have experienced to be the most effective and wonderful vasodilator on this planet, I really stopped caring about what Arginine and/or Caffeine may be in that regard. I can post studies showing that Arginine is a vasodilator and then there are studies showing that it doesn't do jack. Keep in mind some of these studies are funded by producers of Arginine and some are not. Same goes for many other AA such as L. Carnitine. Majority of producers have been producing 0 carb L. Carnitine supplements that come in different forms (fluid, tabs, capsules etc.) yet both industry-funded and non-industry funded studies ironically show us that L. Carnitine is an AA that doesn't live up to its promise unless some CHO is present in the body.
Knowledgeable Member
I agree with all the benefits tat caffeine give a lifter, there no doubt about that. Arginine, in my books works, when I take the ethyl ester form I become more vascular during my workout then when I don't. The reason the question arose was the other day I took one of my wife's preworkout drinks an has ethyl arginine and caffeine and I had a good focused workout, but little vascularity and pump. But when I take just ethyl arginine my pump is outrageous. Just something I noticed.
I have yet to try cialis...I walk around with a chub 90% of the day lol scared of the effects of cialis lol
-TroN-
Knowledgeable Member
We are talking about only 5mg of Cialis PWO, which is exactly the quarter of the daily recommended amount for the kinky business.
Cialis won't give you a boner unless you are sexually stimulated, but if you are guy who keeps himself sexually stimulated all day long, even during workouts, then yes, it may be a bit of a problem.
I had an image of myself with a boner doing pull ups and dumbell pullovers for some reason as I was typing this, not good
Knowledgeable Member
Hahaha alright, I'll take that into consideration. Haha dumbbell pullovers...that would literally look like a pitched tent! Ha
We are talking about only 5mg of Cialis PWO, which is exactly the quarter of the daily recommended amount for the kinky business.
Cialis won't give you a boner unless you are sexually stimulated, but if you are guy who keeps himself sexually stimulated all day long, even during workouts, then yes, it may be a bit of a problem.
I had an image of myself with a boner doing pull ups and dumbell pullovers for some reason as I was typing this, not good
-TroN-
Knowledgeable Member
Caffeine is most effective slimming component
A modest dose of caffeine raises the body’s energy expenditure more than do doses of typical metabolic boosters such as green tea extract and tyrosine. Researchers at the University of Copenhagen published the results of a human study in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. A miserable 50 mg caffeine raises the body’s heat production by 6 percent for a period of 4 hours after intake. If you’re almost broke, but still want to use a slimming supplement, now you know what to buy. Ordinary caffeine pills.
Let’s refresh our memory: Caffeine [structural formula at the top here] blocks the adenosine receptors inside and outside cells. Adenosine is a molecule that tells the body to slow down its processes. Caffeine also inhibits the enzyme phosphodiesterase, that breaks down the messenger molecule cAMP. More cAMP means that fat cells listen better to hormones like adrenalin. The cells dump fatty acids in the bloodstream and tissues can then burn these.
The amino acid tyrosine [middle structural formula in the diagram] is found in dairy, meat and fish. It is one of the raw materials found in stimulatory hormones and neurotransmitters such as nor-adrenalin, adrenalin and dopamine. Because the first two hormones extract fatty acids from fat cells, thereby raising the body’s energy expenditure, tyrosine is an obvious ingredient for slimming supplements.
And finally green tea extract - it's a mix of masses of polyphenols. Some of these, such as EGCG [the bottom structural formula in the diagram], inhibit the enzymes that break down adrenalin and noradrenalin. What’s more, they boost the energy generated by the mitochondria in the cell and the release of fatty acids by fat cells.
The researchers wanted to know which of the three substances works best, so they gave each three separately to 12 healthy, slim men with an average age of 24. Four hours after intake the researchers measured the men’s energy expenditure. Below you can see the effect of 400 mg tyrosine, 500 mg green tea extract and 50 mg caffeine.
During the 4 hour period the men burnt 17 kcal more when they took the caffeine dose. The effects of tyrosine and the green tea extract were not statistically significant.
The researchers performed their measurements in the morning, before the test subjects had eaten breakfast. After the test had been completed, the subjects were given breakfast. Well, lunch really. Then it became clear that the green tea extract and the tyrosine reduced the energy intake by 8 percent. Caffeine reduced intake by 3 percent. None of these effects was statistically significant.
The effect of the green tea extract was disappointing in this study. "In the present study the relative contribution of the specific catechin isomers was not known", the researchers write about the preparation they used. "This may explain the lack of thermogenic response."
Source: Eur J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;63(1):57-64.
ergo-log
Knowledgeable Member
Carb and caffeine combo speeds up post-training muscle recovery
Not only is caffeine useful for improving athletes’ performance during training. According to a human study done at RMIT University in Bundoora, Australia, the stimulant also helps recovery after heavy physical exertion. When combined with carbohydrates, caffeine speeds up the glycogen production in tired muscles.
Over a period of 4 hours the subjects ate 4 g carbohydrates/kg bodyweight in the form of bars, gels and sports drinks. On one occasion that’s all they got [CHO], and on the other occasion the subjects were given caffeine as well [CAF]. The subjects were given a total of 8 mg caffeine/kg bodyweight, and the dose was split into two.
During the recovery period the researchers took biopsies from the subjects’ leg muscles. They saw that the caffeine speeded up the rate at which the muscle cells produced glycogen by as much as 66 percent.
Caffeine raised the concentration of insulin and – to a lesser extent - glucose in the subjects’ blood.
Endurance efforts cause an increase in the activity of the enzymes AMPK and CaMK in the muscle cells. Both these enzymes are involved in the process by which muscle cells take up energy. Caffeine increased the CaMK activation.
The researchers think that AMPK may also play a part in this effect. From other studies they conclude that they may have looked at the wrong AMPK variant.
"After a bout of glycogen-depleting exercise caffeine coingested with CHO has an additive effect on rates of postexercise muscle glycogen accumulation", the researchers summarise. "The overall rate of resynthesis observed in the present investigation with caffeine ingestion is, to the best of our knowledge, the highest reported for human subjects under physiological conditions. Whether lower doses of caffeine can increase postexercise glycogen resynthesis rates to the same extent remains to be determined."
Source: J Appl Physiol. 2008 Jul; 105(1): 7-13.
ergo-log
Knowledgeable Member
Megadose of caffeine before training raises testosterone level
Rugby players that are given a hefty dose of caffeine before doing weight training produce more testosterone than normal during the training. Sports scientists from the Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand write this in the International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism.
The researchers used a couple of dozen professional rugby players for their trial. Because caffeine in the form of a supplement takes about an hour to reach maximum concentration in the blood, the researchers gave the players caffeine pills an hour before they started to pump iron. The dose varied from 200, 400 to 800 milligrams. A cup of coffee contains about 100 milligrams of caffeine.
Power training increases testosterone production, and even more so if you limit the rest periods between sets. Stress hormones like adrenalin – not cortisol of course – increase this effect, probably because they activate the second messengers in the testes. Second messengers are messenger molecules, in this case ones that make the Leydig cells more responsive to messenger hormones like FSH and LH.
When the players did power training without caffeine, their testosterone concentration rose by 15 percent. When they took caffeine the rise in testosterone was higher. The highest dose of caffeine – 800 milligrams – led to a testosterone rise of a modest 21 percent. Whether this would lead to much more extra muscle mass the researchers were unable to say. It was not so much that the effect was modest, but rather because the caffeine impulse also led to a rise in the cortisol level – 52 percent to be exact. The post-training testosterone cortisol ratio, a marker for anabolism in the body, was 14 percent lower as a result of the caffeine.
A 600 mg dose of a supplement like phosphatidylserine increases testosterone production after aerobic training, and reduces cortisol production. But you probably have to take phosphatidylserine for quite a while before you notice any effect. The same goes for zinc and calcium supplements.
Doing relaxation exercises after training has an immediate effect, but probably has less effect if you’ve just taken 800 mg of caffeine. Preventing dehydration on the other hand inhibits cortisol production during training and has an immediate effect. As do sugars.
Hmm. Caffeine, water and sugar.
Would power athletes grow faster if they down an energy drink before training?
Source: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Apr;18(2):131-41.
ergo-log
Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 01-30-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Small amount of caffeine gives strength athlete better grip on weights
During long weights sets where you go for the burn in your calves or lower arms and also exercises where you may lose your grip on the weights, pain is a limiting factor. A low dose of caffeine can help here.
Caffeine raises metabolism slightly. It increases the production of natural stimulants like adrenalin and noradrenalin, and makes cells more sensitive to these. Whats less known is that caffeine also has an indirect painkilling effect. In athletes at least, caffeine boosts the production of beta-endorphin, a natural painkiller.
A study done by researchers at Yale University in 2000 demonstrated this effect on fit young men who were given a fairly high dose of caffeine: 6 mg per kg bodyweight. [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jun;85(6):2170-5.] If you weigh 80 kg then this amounts to 480 mg. An hour-and-a-half after intake the men cycled for 2 hours at 65 percent of their VO2 max – that’s so fast that you can’t talk comfortably at the same time.
The researchers discovered that the stimulant enhanced the production of beta-endorphin.
On the basis of the older study you'd expect that caffeine would also help strength athletes to reduce pain during training. So they gave 5 men and 5 women chewing gum containing 100 mg caffeine that is absorbed quickly. The researchers used a product that is on the market in the US: Stay Alert.
The researchers did not measure their test subjects' daily intake of ordinary caffeine. But according to recent research this is not a factor in the painkilling effect of caffeine during sport sessions. [Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2009 Apr;19(2):150-61.]
The researchers got their subjects to stand up straight and hold weights with outstretched arms until they gradually lost their grip. They had to try and hold on to the weights for as long as possible. The researchers repeated the experiment twice. On one occasion the subjects chewed caffeine gum, and on the other they didn't. The figure below shows the amount of pain the subjects reported.
When they weren't chewing gum the subjects let go after 100 seconds; when they did chew gum they let go after 105 seconds. The difference was not significant, however. The number of test subjects was too small and their muscle power range was also too large.
"Many activities that are involved in strength and conditioning require that an object such as an Olympic bar, kettle bell, or other equipment be held for a number of repetitions", the researchers conclude. "The findings of this study suggest that small amounts of caffeine can reduce the discomfort associated with holding onto an object as the small muscles in the forearm become fatigued."
Source: Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research doi: 10.1519/JSC.0b013e3181d9901f.
ergo-log
Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
Under the duress of exercise caffeine acts as a vaso-dilator due to calcium channel transfer.
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