Why the hate?? -- Oral Only cycle?!?

[songdog]

This thread was a long time in coming for op.The sad thing is he still dont get it!

[AnabolicDoc]

I just wanted to add one more thing. I know the discussion here is the value of oral only cycles as an alternative to test only or test + oral or whatever. I have read at several sites and interviews of ex-BBs on you tube that the BB's in the 60s and 70s did oral only cycles when they first started. I've also read that once they started adding injectables, test wasn't even in the first few cycles - maybe true, idk. Point is that I think the BBs who first stared using AAS have clearly demonstrated that significant gains can be made without test. Clearly, test became a mainstay bc of its added benefits and results and to say that a cycle with test is better than one without is 100% agreed upon by everyone here. I know this is a little off topic and an extreme example of what the OP is trying to get across, but I think it shows us of the potential that non-test cycles can have. Of course, non-test cycles that include other injectables is vastly different from non-test cycles that are oral-only. Any thoughts?

[qscgugcsq]

I think that is a very good reason to not do oral steroids. Whether people want to admit or not, there are risks associated with AAS. Even if you wait until your endocrine system is completely developed and you take the appropriate amount of time researching AAS, dialing your diet and workout down, etc.; the reality is you are still messing with your hormones and endocrine system. The health risks are light-years away from what society will typically have you believe, but they still exist.

Upon accepting this fact, you are then dealt with a risk-reward scenario. If one is willing to risk altering his/her hormones and the health effects that may come with it, one will typically expect great things. If taking steroids would only lead to an increase of 6 ounces of muscle mass, most (hopefully all) people would never do them because the risks far outweigh the rewards. In this case you just said that oral and injectable cycles have the same risks, so why in the hell would you elect the option that leads to LESS gains and rewards? It just doesn't logically follow.

Good point , make sense!

I just wanted to add one more thing. I know the discussion here is the value of oral only cycles as an alternative to test only or test + oral or whatever. I have read at several sites and interviews of ex-BBs on you tube that the BB's in the 60s and 70s did oral only cycles when they first started. I've also read that once they started adding injectables, test wasn't even in the first few cycles - maybe true, idk. Point is that I think the BBs who first stared using AAS have clearly demonstrated that significant gains can be made without test. Clearly, test became a mainstay bc of its added benefits and results and to say that a cycle with test is better than one without is 100% agreed upon by everyone here. I know this is a little off topic and an extreme example of what the OP is trying to get across, but I think it shows us of the potential that non-test cycles can have. Of course, non-test cycles that include other injectables is vastly different from non-test cycles that are oral-only. Any thoughts?

Nice addition!

I think everything as been covered, opinion varies on what is worth it or no.
It's a matter of preference and needs.
it has been an enlightening discussion.

Thanks to everyone who gently add something to the discussion.

[songdog]

I just wanted to add one more thing. I know the discussion here is the value of oral only cycles as an alternative to test only or test + oral or whatever. I have read at several sites and interviews of ex-BBs on you tube that the BB's in the 60s and 70s did oral only cycles when they first started. I've also read that once they started adding injectables, test wasn't even in the first few cycles - maybe true, idk. Point is that I think the BBs who first stared using AAS have clearly demonstrated that significant gains can be made without test. Clearly, test became a mainstay bc of its added benefits and results and to say that a cycle with test is better than one without is 100% agreed upon by everyone here. I know this is a little off topic and an extreme example of what the OP is trying to get across, but I think it shows us of the potential that non-test cycles can have. Of course, non-test cycles that include other injectables is vastly different from non-test cycles that are oral-only. Any thoughts?

But as we know know it wasnt the best route to go.Many things have changed and for the better.But if they were really good dont you think we would still be doing it?Op if someone ran a 60day Dbol cycle.He would be big for 6 weeks.Then the water will be gone.Now your Clark Kent again

[Bio-Active]

But as we know know it wasnt the best route to go.Many things have changed and for the better.But if they were really good dont you think we would still be doing it?Op if someone ran a 60day Dbol cycle.He would be big for 6 weeks.Then the water will be gone.Now your Clark Kent again

And probably feel horrible for most of that time since he would be suppressing natty test

[AnabolicDoc]

But as we know know it wasnt the best route to go.Many things have changed and for the better.But if they were really good dont you think we would still be doing it?Op if someone ran a 60day Dbol cycle.He would be big for 6 weeks.Then the water will be gone.Now your Clark Kent again

I 100% agree. That's why I said that cycles including test are without a doubt better.

[swm1972]

The one oral only cycle I've tried was Legal Gears (Now LG Science) Methyl Masteron when it was OTC at places like GNC. This was sold under the 'prohormone' nonsense but this shit was flat out an oral steroid. Essentially a methylated orally available Masteron. And boy did it work. Great strength gains. Decent size gains. Horrible lethargic feeling I contribute now to a combo of zero testosterone and possible liver/kidney stress. Once I came off I lost everything promptly. This was before PCT was common knowledge so I didn't run any form of PCT. That said I ran long ester testosterone and came off and didn't lose hardly anything over the course of 6 weeks. So obviously there is a difference between the quality and maintainability of the gains between oral and injectibles. Perhaps it has to do with the gradual decline of hormone levels over the course of days and weeks instead of a rapid crash like you get with orals? I'm not sure. FWIW.

[kronik420]

at least your OP was well presented, punctuated, paragraphed and looks pretty with colors and bold font..

[probuild42]

Im very much a newbie and still learning!! Wouldn't this be better catergorized as "risk vs reward"? If I wanted to do an oral only cycle what gains might I expect vs. side effects? Same for injectables? Plus overall cost of cycle. In a perfect scenrio. I.E. training and diet in check.

Also taking orals because they are more convienant? This life of wanting to be in excellent health and physique is not convienant!! Planing meals, workouts, supplements, all around a already busy life (at least for me) takes a lot of dedication and drive. Nothing I do is out of covienance, it is out of sheer determination.

If I am going to use something that could be potentially harmfull. I want max results..

Maybe I should start new thread?

Risk vs rewards? Oral vs. injectables and/or combinations.

[bigsiv]

I enjoy oral only sometimes sometimes I'm just to tired to do the whole deal , oops that kind of oral, no thanks. Lol

Ha ha ha ha not sure if you meant this but it sounded really gay dougie lol

[Dougiefresh7707]

Ha ha ha ha not sure if you meant this but it sounded really gay dougie lol

Lol I left getting out if there.

[Dougiefresh7707]

Thanks for pointing that one out did sound pretty gay lol

[bigsiv]

Thanks for pointing that one out did sound pretty gay lol

Ha ha ha ha ha no bother mate

[5x10]

Agree with op
I don't understand why the method of application is targeted
Doing 20mgs of dbol for 4-6 weeks right now
Will be my first short cycle, oral only
Have done 3 prior in my 20 yrs of lifting

[songdog]

Ha ha ha ha not sure if you meant this but it sounded really gay dougie lol

That was a hidden message to Shovla that he is coming out of the closet LOL

[songdog]

Agree with op
I don't understand why the method of application is targeted
Doing 20mgs of dbol for 4-6 weeks right now
Will be my first short cycle, oral only
Have done 3 prior in my 20 yrs of lifting

Bro beacuse this type of cycle is next to worthless.There are 100s of threads of the same thing.OP thinks he found a safe cycle.Beacuse if you read his history.That is wat he is looking for beacuse he is young and wants to cycle and prove everything we teach here wrong.

[qscgugcsq]

Bro beacuse this type of cycle is next to worthless.There are 100s of threads of the same thing.OP thinks he found a safe cycle.Beacuse if you read his history.That is wat he is looking for beacuse he is young and wants to cycle and prove everything we teach here wrong.

And what's wrong with that?? Yes, I'm trying to find a way that will be efficient and "safe". Educate before you medicate, does it rings a bell to you?

We don't educate ourself by saying ok to everything we read. We are learning by trying to find flaws, by finding new hypothesis and asking question. And most important of all, Being proved WRONG! By agreeing to everything we don't search to understand we just know but don't know why... If I know something I would like to know why so.

And yes I want to prove you all wrong. Because for that I have to outsmart you(that I clearly can't achieve due my lack of experience) But by trying I push a little further.

And when A thread piss you off, and when you feel attacked by this thread that is when you are going in, "**** you I'll show you what I know" mode. And that's what I want.

If you think that disgraceful to try to learn as much as we can. Go ahead!

[5x10]

Bro beacuse this type of cycle is next to worthless.There are 100s of threads of the same thing.OP thinks he found a safe cycle.Beacuse if you read his history.That is wat he is looking for beacuse he is young and wants to cycle and prove everything we teach here wrong.

im not young, I'm 34
Last 3 cycles have been 10-12 weeks and were all shots
I'm trying this as I want a short cycle
Dbol is a effective steroid, I'm dieting while taking it
I already weigh 260 prior to starting
Not sure how you can claim that my cycle is a waste when you don't even know why I'm doing it

Crazy how a short, mild cycle is criticized while the strongest roid, tren, is commonly used and accepted even though, IMO, it's got the biggest impact in terms of sides

[qscgugcsq]

Im very much a newbie and still learning!! Wouldn't this be better catergorized as "risk vs reward"? If I wanted to do an oral only cycle what gains might I expect vs. side effects? Same for injectables? Plus overall cost of cycle. In a perfect scenrio. I.E. training and diet in check.

Also taking orals because they are more convienant? This life of wanting to be in excellent health and physique is not convienant!! Planing meals, workouts, supplements, all around a already busy life (at least for me) takes a lot of dedication and drive. Nothing I do is out of covienance, it is out of sheer determination.

If I am going to use something that could be potentially harmfull. I want max results..

Maybe I should start new thread?

Risk vs rewards? Oral vs. injectables and/or combinations.

Go read the reply of Basketballfan22, he explain it very well. Oral cycle are efficient but far less efficient than if you add testosterone with it. Expecting 15 pound of lbm from a oral cycle would be surprising, but expecting that from test only, very possible(as first cycle).

Plus except for the time to recover you are risking about the same potential damage to the HPTA and CNS, so risking about the same thing for far less gain, do not really worth it...

But oral may be done, they are just less rewarding than with testosterone.

[songdog]

And what's wrong with that?? Yes, I'm trying to find a way that will be efficient and "safe". Educate before you medicate, does it rings a bell to you?

We don't educate ourself by saying ok to everything we read. We are learning by trying to find flaws, by finding new hypothesis and asking question. And most important of all, Being proved WRONG! By agreeing to everything we don't search to understand we just know but don't know why... If I know something I would like to know why so.

And yes I want to prove you all wrong. Because for that I have to outsmart you(that I clearly can't achieve due my lack of experience) But by trying I push a little further.

And when A thread piss you off, and when you feel attacked by this thread that is when you are going in, "**** you I'll show you what I know" mode. And that's what I want.

If you think that disgraceful to try to learn as much as we can. Go ahead!

No wat angers me is when you pass along your BS to younger guys not knowing any better.And you are not educateing yourself.You are trying to find someone to say its ok for you to cycle.So you hit this topic on every side and still come up empty handed.Now if you want to cycle go ahead.But dont try telling these youg kids that you found a safer cycle.Beacuse they dont exist.

[songdog]

im not young, I'm 34
Last 3 cycles have been 10-12 weeks and were all shots
I'm trying this as I want a short cycle
Dbol is a effective steroid, I'm dieting while taking it
I already weigh 260 prior to starting
Not sure how you can claim that my cycle is a waste when you don't even know why I'm doing it

Crazy how a short, mild cycle is criticized while the strongest roid, tren, is commonly used and accepted even though, IMO, it's got the biggest impact in terms of sides

Beacuse most if not all of wat you gain on Dbol you will lose.Now if I was going to do a oral only and diet which I wouldnt.I would choose Var for is clean gains or Tbol.IMOP Dbol isnt a good choice for dieting cycle much like Deca you just have too much water weight.

[BG]

Recovery is not easier, suppression is suppression.

[bigsiv]

Beacuse most if not all of wat you gain on Dbol you will lose.Now if I was going to do a oral only and diet which I wouldnt.I would choose Var for is clean gains or Tbol.IMOP Dbol isnt a good choice for dieting cycle much like Deca you just have too much water weight.

Have to agree with song dog here dbol for cutting? I have loads of experience with dbol and now I can't stand it. Anadrol for strength and var for a cut. I've seen your lifting stats 5 x 10 in another thread very impressive but I don't understand why you would dbol to cut, and on its own? Can you shed some light please?

[5x10]

Have to agree with song dog here dbol for cutting? I have loads of experience with dbol and now I can't stand it. Anadrol for strength and var for a cut. I've seen your lifting stats 5 x 10 in another thread very impressive but I don't understand why you would dbol to cut, and on its own? Can you shed some light please?

Sure, every cycle I have done has made me leaner, didn't Matter if it was deca test dbol(bulkin stack)
Again, I'm not in it for gains per se
I weigh 260 pre cycle
Yes, I may bloat on cycle, but my metabolism will rise, my strength and endurance will rise, and I will run a calorie deficit
I had the dbol on hand, it was super cheap and compared to taking shots, it is very convienent
I've got some hcg ready to go if I feel a decline in libido or nut shrinkage
Have aromasin on hand, plan on running hcg and aromasin post cycle(I love hcg)
Wanted to try a short cycle

This reminds me of when I hear about how you can't cut on creatine, since it makes you retain water

[songdog]

Sure, every cycle I have done has made me leaner, didn't Matter if it was deca test dbol(bulkin stack)
Again, I'm not in it for gains per se
I weigh 260 pre cycle
Yes, I may bloat on cycle, but my metabolism will rise, my strength and endurance will rise, and I will run a calorie deficit
I had the dbol on hand, it was super cheap and compared to taking shots, it is very convienent
I've got some hcg ready to go if I feel a decline in libido or nut shrinkage
Have aromasin on hand, plan on running hcg and aromasin post cycle(I love hcg)
Wanted to try a short cycle

This reminds me of when I hear about how you can't cut on creatine, since it makes you retain water

I was the same way when I was in my 20s.Back then in the Marines if work took me away for a few months.I would eat like cramp and when I could.But when I came back I didnt have to diet but not eat junk.And I would drop weight.BUT that stops with age and not everyone can do it.Look at it like this.You can dig a hole using a spoon or you can do it the smart way and use the right tool.

[bigsiv]

Sure, every cycle I have done has made me leaner, didn't Matter if it was deca test dbol(bulkin stack)
Again, I'm not in it for gains per se
I weigh 260 pre cycle
Yes, I may bloat on cycle, but my metabolism will rise, my strength and endurance will rise, and I will run a calorie deficit
I had the dbol on hand, it was super cheap and compared to taking shots, it is very convienent
I've got some hcg ready to go if I feel a decline in libido or nut shrinkage
Have aromasin on hand, plan on running hcg and aromasin post cycle(I love hcg)
Wanted to try a short cycle

This reminds me of when I hear about how you can't cut on creatine, since it makes you retain water

Can't argue with convenience lol personally I hate dbol, my head goes huge on it and its big enough already lol good luck on the short cycle keep me updated, it's been a while since I messed with dbol only

[Java Man]

I'm really tired of reading these posts where some 20yo kid refutes everything the wisdom of those who have already been there says. These are the people for whom history repeats itself and I really do feel sorry for them.

OP, you want to do oral only? Fine. Go for it. You've already been warned against it by thousands of articles here and elsewhere. I see no reason to argue with genius. You've obviously got everything all figured out.

[probuild42]

Go read the reply of Basketballfan22, he explain it very well. Oral cycle are efficient but far less efficient than if you add testosterone with it. Expecting 15 pound of lbm from a oral cycle would be surprising, but expecting that from test only, very possible(as first cycle).

Plus except for the time to recover you are risking about the same potential damage to the HPTA and CNS, so risking about the same thing for far less gain, do not really worth it...

But oral may be done, they are just less rewarding than with testosterone.

That was my point! Why run oral only. Seems Ass backwards IMO.