Standard first dianabol cycle questions

[Docd187123]

All you have to do is look is up on the cdc website, not gonna do it for you! I'm still waiting for a study saying dianabol killed a guy, I double dare you again! lol

I'm triple dog daring you and we all know that's the king of dares! It cannot be topped except maybe for a quintuple dog, quadruple stray cat dare

[Black]

My advice is do not judge people, give the proper facts and let them decide. Don't give him bullshit info like he's gonna die! Obviously he's got no good genetic to start with, no experience and no knowledge about training, eating and juicing, so should he take roids? NO! But if he's stupid enought to do it, well then it's his problem in the end! Don't post lies there's more than enough already as it is!

Can't you people read I said he shouldn't be taking anything, my second post in here, scroll up and read it again. The point is lying and posting bullshit sides and risks like dying is not the way to go. Put up facts and if he still wants to take it well it's his problem.

Apologies. For some reason, I thought you had given advice.

[Cuz]

Well that escalated quickly

[David LoPan]

Okay why would there be a study on DBall and deaths? Look at the steroid profile, it clearly states " Dianabol will raise your blood pressure (4) and is also hepatoxic (Liver-Toxic), so be careful with it"....and "decreased plasma testosterone to about 40% of its normal value, plasma GH went up about a third, LH dropped to about 80% of its original value, and FSH went down about a third also".

So why would the CDC do a study on this old drug? There is enough out there to say to not take it when you are young and still growing. Get the most natural gains as you can.

Oh I am a medical professional. I have seen young people really mess up their liver from AAS. They tend to be not mature enough to take it like they should, they are looking for a short cut, they don't get blood work done and the worst part is they drink on an oral hepatoxic drug.

Lastly I have to say is DAMM kelkel your profile pic makes it hard to read what you write. Love the avatar!!!!

[DFRELAT]

^^^^hey buddy...if you take too much of anything it can kill you. Dbol or tylenol lol. I wouldnt argue with Doc man he knows his stuff.

Actually no! lol Look at this bullshit James Randi takes a whole bottle of homeopathic sleeping aid, pretty funny lol he does this regularly, hasn't died yet! Randi overdosing on homeopathic sleeping pills - YouTube

[DontTaseMeBro]

Well said. Just not sure about the "Straw-buffalo" thing!

I was going to say that it was like using a waffle to protect yourself from a donkey, but not everyone knows how mean donkeys are or how much they love waffles. There seems to be some debate on whether or not dbol will kill you, but I guarantee you, DONKEYS WILL!!! I have studies.

[Cuz]

Actually no! lol Look at this bullshit James Randi takes a whole bottle of homeopathic sleeping aid, pretty funny lol he does this regularly, hasn't died yet! Randi overdosing on homeopathic sleeping pills - YouTube

So basically what you are saying is you have zero credibility here? Because pulling a youtube vid is not a credible source. Thanks for the laugh.

[kelkel]

Lastly I have to say is DAMM kelkel your profile pic makes it hard to read what you write. Love the avatar!!!!

Always glad to positively contribute something. Realize that when I change it back to a pic or me or something how odd that statement will then sound!

[kelkel]

Oh, I posted the second link in a thread about a month ago here. Seems relevant here as well. Waiting for the full version. The first one has a bit more detail on LVH.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768197/


Sudden or Unnatural Deaths Involving Anabolic-androgenic Steroids - Darke - 2014 - Journal of Forensic Sciences - Wiley Online Library

[Docd187123]

Oh, I posted the second link in a thread about a month ago here. Seems relevant here as well. Waiting for the full version. The first one has a bit more detail on LVH.

Cardiac effects of anabolic steroids


Sudden or Unnatural Deaths Involving Anabolic-androgenic Steroids - Darke - 2014 - Journal of Forensic Sciences - Wiley Online Library

I'll see if I can get you the full versions and PM you the info

[kelkel]

I'll see if I can get you the full versions and PM you the info

That would be great. Thanks Doc!

[DFRELAT]

So basically what you are saying is you have zero credibility here? Because pulling a youtube vid is not a credible source. Thanks for the laugh.

Sorry to pop your homoeopathic bubble lol So if I would post a Stephen Hawking video on youtube about black holes it would not be a credible source for you then? A Neil deGrasse Tyson video on astronomy on youtube is not credible? Stop it already you're embarrassing yourself! What would be more credible then? A book where they say the exact same thing? lol

[Docd187123]

Sorry to pop your homoeopathic bubble lol So if I would post a Stephen Hawking video on youtube about black holes it would not be a credible source for you then? A Neil deGrasse Tyson video on astronomy on youtube is not credible? Stop it already you're embarrassing yourself! What would be more credible then? A book where they say the exact same thing? lol

If you were to link a YouTube video as a reference to a dissertation you're writing, would that be accepted regardless of whose video it was?

[DFRELAT]

What I find interesting in the abstract of the second link (Darke - 2014 - Journal of Forensic Sciences - Wiley Online Library) It says like I was saying yesterday about the 3 deaths on the cdc site were heart related, here they say: 'In 23 of 24 cases, substances other than steroids were detected, most commonly psychostimulants (66.7%).' Hmmm pretty interesting psychostimulants now that really messes up your heart pretty good, they don't say wich ones but here is a possible list: methanphetamine, cocaine, pseudoephedrine, caffeine, MDMA etc... So pretty much what I was saying yesterday, only 3 deaths from the millions of people in the US who take aas, pretty damn low (compaed to say aspirine or tylenol) and of those 3 deaths we can assume they weren''t just taking aas.

This nonsense has to stop I never said taking steroids is perfectly safe, just like any other medication they have side effects. I also never encouraged him to take steroidss. All I'm saying is to give proper advice, proper facts, not to judge and keep your morals to yourself, let people decide for themselves. It's their choice, their lives. Using bogeyman scare tactics is not the way to go!

[DFRELAT]

If you were to link a YouTube video as a reference to a dissertation you're writing, would that be accepted regardless of whose video it was?

Ah but I don't have world renowned recognition like these two have, pretty safe bet to say that something like 90% of the world's scientific community would be in agreement with them! Besides, arguments from authority are pretty weak to start with.

[David LoPan]

Okay do you know what one would have to do in making a study? First it would have to have plenty of test subjects. Give some a placebo and the other AAS (which ever drug that may be). Both test groups would have to be pretty much on a mono drug therapy, well as close as possible. The CDC does not do drug trials, pharma companies do. The role of the CDC is pretty simple, the are the CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL not the FDA. This drug, like most any drug CAN KILL YOU if not taken in accordance with the rules of the FDA. So factor in the Bro Science out there with the dosage issues and length of time on the drug. So if you have someone abuse the drug, like any drug, it can KILL you.

Take Test for example, it is approved for TRT and might be indicated for a few other treatments. Well if you don't take it as written by a medical doctor guess what, you mess you body up. How much depends on the individual. Now take into account that there are people in the world cooking AAS in the kitchens and not at an FDA approved lab, That leads to impurities in the drug and over dosing or under dosing.

You like to use street drugs as examples. Guess what, some of those were and still are used in the medical community. If taken as approved by the FDA and approved by a doctor under controlled settings it will not hurt you. Your example of methanphetamine (Methylphenidate and Amphetamine are used to treat ADD), cocaine (used in dental offices until a few years ago but still is used for some Rhinoplasty surgeries) , pseudoephedrine (used in many medications), caffeine (no need to explain this), MDMA (was used by psychiatrist until it was banned due to no medical evidence of benefits). Now if you abuse the drugs or get them on the black market you also get impurities in the drugs and you never know what those are.

So bottom line, yes AAS can kill you, Period. Now have the over use of AAS become an epidemic, NO. But that does not mean that they cant hurt you. Why do you think you cycle on and off AAS? If you were to stay on an oral AAS that was liver heptoxic and drank on them what do you think would happen? Liver failure. Would the cause be from AAS or etoh? What is they drank only sometimes but not much? Bottom line they would not say that AAS killed the person they would say that they died of liver failure. But it was the steroids and destroyed the liver. Get my point?

[DFRELAT]

The CDC list causes of death each year, of course I know they DON'T run clinical trials! lol They listed once 3 deaths to AAS but it turns out these were very questionable. First of all the cdc and the other 2 links posted in here don't say wich AAS were taken, how many, at what doses each, for how long. doesn't say either which other drugs were taken at the same time, doesn't say the patient history or their family's, doesn't say their eating habits and so on... so damn right very questionnable and they're all related to heart conditions. Now forget any of this, 3 out of millions of people which MAY have died from AAS is ridiculously low even when compared to any household drugs. So stop your bullshit boogeyman fears, there is no absolute proof, all the studies and research you will find will say the same thing in the end. maybe, maybe not. The psychostimulants they were talking about, now that is strong stuff, far worst then dianabol which are the first point of this whole thing in the first place. They should do studies on AAS and IQ levels this ****ing thread would meke a good case study! You must really shit your pants when you're taking tylenols if the death rate of AAS is scaring you! lol

[Cuz]

Pulling random vids off youtube is not a credible source. There are some great informative vids sure but we are talking medical studies here. Basically what you have said is you can take any amount of anything and not result in death including an oral steroid. Maybe its your skull that is too thick and besides no one here is going to agree with your nonsense.

[Docd187123]

The CDC list causes of death each year, of course I know they DON'T run clinical trials! lol They listed once 3 deaths to AAS but it turns out these were very questionable. First of all the cdc and the other 2 links posted in here don't say wich AAS were taken, how many, at what doses each, for how long. doesn't say either which other drugs were taken at the same time, doesn't say the patient history or their family's, doesn't say their eating habits and so on... so damn right very questionnable and they're all related to heart conditions. Now forget any of this, 3 out of millions of people which MAY have died from AAS is ridiculously low even when compared to any household drugs. So stop your bullshit boogeyman fears, there is no absolute proof, all the studies and research you will find will say the same thing in the end. maybe, maybe not. The psychostimulants they were talking about, now that is strong stuff, far worst then dianabol which are the first point of this whole thing in the first place. They should do studies on AAS and IQ levels this ****ing thread would meke a good case study!

You're so adamant steroids can't kill you, have you thought to provide a study that claims that?

[DFRELAT]

lol This is going in circle like when theists and atheist are arguing. Prove me that God doesn't exist, no you prove that God exists... on and on lol

[MuscleInk]

You're so adamant steroids can't kill you, have you thought to provide a study that claims that?

Plenty of published resources on Pubmed discussing risks to several physiological systems. Unfortunately many of the controlled studies people insist on would be unethical in human populations so in the majority of cases studies are retrospective, epidemiological, or meta analysis reviews, with the exception of animal studies.

I know you are aware if this Doc. My comment is a general observation based on current knowledge.

[David LoPan]

The CDC list causes of death each year, of course I know they DON'T run clinical trials! lol They listed once 3 deaths to AAS but it turns out these were very questionable. First of all the cdc and the other 2 links posted in here don't say wich AAS were taken, how many, at what doses each, for how long. doesn't say either which other drugs were taken at the same time, doesn't say the patient history or their family's, doesn't say their eating habits and so on... so damn right very questionnable and they're all related to heart conditions. Now forget any of this, 3 out of millions of people which MAY have died from AAS is ridiculously low even when compared to any household drugs. So stop your bullshit boogeyman fears, there is no absolute proof, all the studies and research you will find will say the same thing in the end. maybe, maybe not. The psychostimulants they were talking about, now that is strong stuff, far worst then dianabol which are the first point of this whole thing in the first place. They should do studies on AAS and IQ levels this ****ing thread would meke a good case study! You must really shit your pants when you're taking tylenols if the death rate of AAS is scaring you! lol

Okay you want to be insulting then why are you on this site if you think our IQ's are so low? I have not one but two maters degrees but that is not important. If you dont like what people here are saying then you can always choose not to comment about it or get your information for somewhere else. You are on this site for information aren't you?

You say there is no absolute proof, well there is. Just look at the steroid profile of this drug and there was a study done on the drug. Dianabol is a 17aa steroid, which means it has been altered at the 17th Carbon position, to survive its first pass through your liver, and make it into your blood stream. Dianabol will raise your blood pressure (4) and is also hepatoxic (Liver-Toxic), so be careful with it. ( why would they say BE CAREFUL WITH IT?) It raises your blood Pressure? High blood pressure (hypertension) can quietly damage your body for years before symptoms develop. Left uncontrolled, you may wind up with a disability, a poor quality of life or even a fatal heart attack. Heart attack from HTN that could be cause by dianabol, hmmmm as you stated "very questionnable and they're all related to heart conditions". The circulatory system which the heart is the he KEY ORGAN. Lets just see if someone abused dianabol and left their HTN untreated it could cause coronary artery disease, enlarged left heart,and heart failure not to mention what it does to your brain and your kidneys.

Now it states this drug is hepatoxic (Liver-Toxic). This mean the drug are a cause of liver injury. Now if you take dianabol and you done know you are damaging your liver what will happen? Use your brain? Can you live without a liver?

So this started with a kid, 18 taking dianabol. Do you think he goes to the doctor and gets his BP taken or his blood work done? Could this lead to his death either directly or indirectly? YES. If he takes a to much of dianabol or stays on this drug for to long and destroys his liver could this kill him? YES. So do you think it is responsible for a grown adult to tell a teenager to take AAS? So why are you arguing about if AAS can damage your body or kill you? Just because the CDC does not list a AAS as a cause of death does not mean it didn't play a major role in the death of the person.

Most people on this site are responsible grown adults. They know the risks and the rewards for their actions. They seek information to lean about the drugs they put in their bodies and thankfully they share this information with others. Am I one of those people that say AAS can kill you and you should not take them? NO I am not. I believe they are a great if used correctly. They are a medication, and medications come with risks.

So please stop arguing with people on here that want to help people. If they want to say that AAS can kill you to make sure people know those RISKS, especially the young and the people looking for a quick fix, let them express their opinion and keep your personal opinion to yourself. You are not helping them at all. That is the key part of this website, HELPING PEOPLE.

And please remember you can be what ever you want to be online. I don't know why so many people want to be idiots online. I'm NOT saying you are a idiot. But think of AAS this way, if you had an 18 year old son that came to you and asked you for steroids, like dianabol, would you get it for them? If you did and they died or caused damage to their body from it how would you feel?

[David LoPan]

Plenty of published resources on Pubmed discussing risks to several physiological systems. Unfortunately many of the controlled studies people insist on would be unethical in human populations so in the majority of cases studies are retrospective, epidemiological, or meta analysis reviews, with the exception of animal studies.

MuscleInk always is able to say what I wish I could in so little words. Great post about unethical studies.

[MuscleInk]

MuscleInk always is able to say what I wish I could in so little words. Great post about unethical studies.

Thanks BT. Still some great pubs on health risks, many limited to nonhuman population but still a very informative read.

[MuscleInk]

A small sample of publications. The last is of specific importance to me as a neurologist.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...lic%20steroids

[Docd187123]

Plenty of published resources on Pubmed discussing risks to several physiological systems. Unfortunately many of the controlled studies people insist on would be unethical in human populations so in the majority of cases studies are retrospective, epidemiological, or meta analysis reviews, with the exception of animal studies.

I know you are aware if this Doc. My comment is a general observation based on current knowledge.

Absolutely correct, it'd go against ethical standards to purposely try and kill a human being for the sake of research. The member I was responding to is adamant about finding a study that lists AAS as a cause of death which the chances of finding one are...well not likely lol. Them the argument shifts once his own youtube reference cites statistics from the CDC showing AAS as a cause of death or factor in the death. I don't think any information we'd be able to provide would change his mind. I mentioned a patient of my cousin who almost died but now that's been reduced to broscience and hearsay bc my cousin who works in a prestigious hospital is not qualified to tell us dbol almost killed a patient he treated.

[DFRELAT]

I got some dianabol tonight so you guys won't have to deal with me for long! Won't be my nasty Crohn's disease or my grade 3 anaplastic astrocytoma brain tumour to get me in the end but that pesky dianabol! Feel like a weight been lifted off my shoulders knowing what will do me in. Joking aside, believe whatever you want, I tried.

[kelkel]

Sorry, we just never realized how healthy Dbol actually was for us. Order up!

[DFRELAT]

All AAS are good for me, especially tren! check my post http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...d-yet-lol.html