What is your favorite kickstart oral?

[Docd187123]

Yep, especially since this is like his 3rd cycle. Over time you get up regulation of the AR receptor. If he was running Tren E absolutely, short esters help like npp. But again, that's a lot of compounds. Think of it like this, why do we run estrogen blockers when we get sides from test. The SERM goes and binds strongly to the estrogen receptor and blocks estrogen from binding thus blocking the sides for excessive E. It's also the basis of treatment for breast cancer.

I'm not necessarily recommending he use so many compounds on a 3rd cycle but with such low doses that he's referenced there is hardly room for receptor saturation. I'm not exactly sure how the SERM example relates to this issue. If receptor saturation is such a big deal why do we run more than one compound at once in any cycle? After all, they all act upon the same receptors in the end.

In looking over the proposed indirect effects of testosterone, and pondering the effectiveness of the synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroids, we must resist the temptation to believe we can categorize steroids as those which directly, and those which indirectly, promote muscle growth. The belief that there are two dichotomous groups or classes of steroids ignores the fact that all commercial steroids promote not only muscle growth but also androgenic effects. There is no complete separation of these traits at this time, making clear that all activate the cellular androgen receptor. I believe the theory behind direct and indirect steroid classifications originated when some noted the low receptor binding affinity of seemingly strong anabolic steroids like oxymetholone and methandrostenolone.18 If they bind poorly, yet work well, something else must be at work. This type of thinking fails to recognize other factors in the potency of these compounds, such as their long half-lives, estrogenic activity, and weak interaction with restrictive binding proteins (see: Free vs. Bound Testosterone). While there may possibly be differences in the way various compounds could foster growth indirectly, such that advantages might even be found with certain synergistic drug combinations, the primary mode of action with all of these compounds is the androgen receptor. The notion that steroid X and Y must never be stacked together because they both compete for the same receptor when stimulating growth, while X and Z should be combined because they work via different mechanisms, should likewise not be taken too seriously. Such classifications are based on speculation only, and upon reasonable investigation are clearly invalid.

Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. “Anabolics.” iBooks.

[MuscleScience]

I'm not necessarily recommending he use so many compounds on a 3rd cycle but with such low doses that he's referenced there is hardly room for receptor saturation. I'm not exactly sure how the SERM example relates to this issue. If receptor saturation is such a big deal why do we run more than one compound at once in any cycle? After all, they all act upon the same receptors in the end.

My point exactly, you only have so many androgen receptors to go around. If you have a compound X that has a stronger binding potential to the AR, another compound (Y) unless it is dosed much much higher than compound X, has a reduced chance to bind successfully. Compound Y may need to be dosed at twice the dosage as compound X. Keep in mind, we are talking about compounds that have similar half-lives simplistically speaking. So running similar ester compounds to each other like test p and NPP would be different than running NPP with Test E. Test E stays active for a much longer time frame than Test-p thus increasing its ability to successfully bind to a meaningful amount of AR to produce a desired effect when competing against another compound. Also Keep in mind they all do compete with each other.

I use SERMs as an example of this effect since it's well studied in the literature A SERM is a selective estrogen receptor mediator. Which means it's a molecule that blocks estrogen at the receptor site, which estrogen is a steroid hormone just the same as testosterone. SARM's do the same thing except block testosterone but I don't use that as an example because they are not nearly as well described in the research as SERMs and I have no formal experience with SARMs.

[ilovejuice]

all of the compounds that is, But now I see. I may just keep it simple do test p npp and dbol. I am trying to put some size on I just hate the thought of losing whatever size I get from the dbol

[MuscleScience]

Keep it simple, less risk and really concentrate on diet and getting adequate rest. Putting on muscle is a marathon not a sprint. It will come with time, if you do it the right way you shouldn't lose much size.

[Cuz]

all of the compounds that is, But now I see. I may just keep it simple do test p npp and dbol. I am trying to put some size on I just hate the thought of losing whatever size I get from the dbol

Well then don't do dbol....look man. Dbol is like a sexy whore...you **** her for a few weeks and then she leaves you high and dry. Fun to run...but no benefit unless your in strength comp.

[ironbeck]

Well then don't do dbol....look man. Dbol is like a sexy whore...you **** her for a few weeks and then she leaves you high and dry. Fun to run...but no benefit unless your in strength comp.

LMAO....that's priceless!!

[ilovejuice]

do you think i would maintain more size after my cycle with anavar?

[Black]

do you think i would maintain more size after my cycle with anavar?

Your diet and training will dictate that.

[MuscleInk]

Your diet and training will dictate that.

^^^Exactly. Eat less than your new TDEE and slow down on training and watch what happens. No gear provides permanent results - your habitual commitment to grow and sustain size trough eating and training determines the end result - ALWAYS.

[MuscleScience]

^^^Exactly. Eat less than your new TDEE and slow down on training and watch what happens. No gear provides permanent results - your habitual commitment to grow and sustain size trough eating and training determines the end result - ALWAYS.

Spot on Diamond and MuscleInk!