First Cycle - Test C and Anavar Questions

[MDFF325]

- You are missing HCG

- No mention of bloodwork pre/post/during

- Need to have an AI on hand no mention of that in your proposed cycle

- Skip the Anavar - you've never run Test before you need to see how your body and hormones respond to only Test (such as estrogen).

- Diet has ALOT of room for improvement, it's about a 6.5/10
> Missing a lot of micronutrients when your only vegetable is asparagus
> 400g of carbs from sugar (have you monitored yourself for an extended time to know how you respond to this much sugar ?)
> Only two servings of vegetables and only one vegetable type
> no fats except steak or trace amounts from food

- Cycle of 12 weeks not 10

- You should start your workouts with the compound exercises first. Like squats on leg day

Step 1 is fixing the nutrition
Step 2 should be bloodwork
Step 3 is HCG + AI on hand
Step 4 is saving anacar for another cycle

Side Note as far as the micronutrients is that I use, and have used Orange Triad by Controlled Labs since I started lifting 8 years ago. Do I believe multivitamins are as effective as whole food? No. But it is a way to hit those numbers as far as micronutrients.

I have blood work scheduled for next week, as I plan to start in a few weeks and I read the recommended “pre” Test should be roughly two weeks out. Here is what they’re testing: Common and free testosterone, Follicle-stimulating hormone, Luteinizing hormone, Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesteron, Cortisol, Thyroxine.

As for the HCG and AI, through my research the 400/wk will have me shut down by week 4. But at such low doses of test, in comparison to some, will my estrogen rise high enough to need a complete Estrogen blocker such as HCG or an AI? Or will the Nolva which basically impedes the effects of Estrogen be a better choice due to the relatively lower levels than most in this situation?

Through my research I was pretty set on the Test and Var being a very “beginner” cycle especially at the low doses of both supplements. What effects will the anavar have on my estrogen levels that are making you say that?

Thank you for all your input by the way, it’s really appreciated.

[GearHeaded]

As for the HCG and AI, through my research the 400/wk will have me shut down by week 4. But at such low doses of test, in comparison to some, will my estrogen rise high enough to need a complete Estrogen blocker such as HCG or an AI? Or will the Nolva which basically impedes the effects of Estrogen be a better choice due to the relatively lower levels than most in this situation?

Your going to be running 20mg of Nolva on this cycle . You are NOT likely going to need to run an AI at all. No point in running something thats going to hinder your gains unless your super estrogen sensitive and have to run it. having it on hand is still a good idea.
the Nolva will block estrogen where you need it blocked, breast tissue fat tissue etc., but it will allow estrogen function where we do want it, liver and muscle tissue for example.
Fyi - HCG is not an anti estrogen in any way shape or form. it simply mimics LH and thus helps keep the testes from shutting completely down.
you'll have a more successful PCT running HCG


personally. I think running things like VAR, Tbol, Winstrol, Masteon, etc. on a first cycle is absolutely fine (heck they all have less side effects then test and in many cases make test work better and limit side effects, ).. 'Test' itself is actually the dirtier and harder to get used to compound then these other ones. high dosage Test only cycles are more advanced then these other multiple compound cycles (yet 'test only' cycles are popularly preached as the best way to go for a newbie). thats just my opinion. but I think you running VAR is just fine for this situation.

IF my son was going to run his first cycle and I helped him .. it would NOT be a moderate dosage 'test only cycle' . thats how convinced I am there are better options for a first cycle then what is popular online

[MDFF325]

Your going to be running 20mg of Nolva on this cycle . You are NOT likely going to need to run an AI at all. No point in running something thats going to hinder your gains unless your super estrogen sensitive and have to run it. having it on hand is still a good idea.
the Nolva will block estrogen where you need it blocked, breast tissue fat tissue etc., but it will allow estrogen function where we do want it, liver and muscle tissue for example.
Fyi - HCG is not an anti estrogen in any way shape or form. it simply mimics LH and thus helps keep the testes from shutting completely down.
you'll have a more successful PCT running HCG


personally. I think running things like VAR, Tbol, Winstrol, Masteon, etc. on a first cycle is absolutely fine (heck they all have less side effects then test and in many cases make test work better and limit side effects, ).. 'Test' itself is actually the dirtier and harder to get used to compound then these other ones. high dosage Test only cycles are more advanced then these other multiple compound cycles (yet 'test only' cycles are popularly preached as the best way to go for a newbie). thats just my opinion. but I think you running VAR is just fine for this situation.

IF my son was going to run his first cycle and I helped him .. it would NOT be a moderate dosage 'test only cycle' . thats how convinced I am there are better options for a first cycle then what is popular online

Awesome!! Thank you very much. I’ll look more into the AI and see if I can find some in the next few weeks to have whether I use it or not will depend on a little more research on my end. I’ll continue to research “beginner” cycles and I’ll see what other people have to say if anyone else comments as to whether the Var is a good or bad idea on the first go. For now, the plan is to still run both Var and Test.

[GearHeaded]

Awesome!! Thank you very much. I’ll look more into the AI and see if I can find some in the next few weeks to have whether I use it or not will depend on a little more research on my end. I’ll continue to research “beginner” cycles and I’ll see what other people have to say if anyone else comments as to whether the Var is a good or bad idea on the first go. For now, the plan is to still run both Var and Test.

ok, also (not to add more to your plate, but.. .) having the AI is also a good idea as you can use it at the tail end of your cycle to help you transition into going into PCT.
Your PCT protocol could use a little work imo. using the VAR at the tail end, instead of at the beginning, and using an AI the last couple weeks going into PCT can help you recover faster.

instead of crowding your thread with this info, look out for me starting a new thread here shortly about PCT protocols that may be of help to you

[MDFF325]

ok, also (not to add more to your plate, but.. .) having the AI is also a good idea as you can use it at the tail end of your cycle to help you transition into going into PCT.
Your PCT protocol could use a little work imo. using the VAR at the tail end, instead of at the beginning, and using an AI the last couple weeks going into PCT can help you recover faster.

instead of crowding your thread with this info, look out for me starting a new thread here shortly about PCT protocols that may be of help to you

The other guy commenting on here, Windex is highly recommending it as well. I’m going to go read a bunch of threads on here and learn a little more before I really start this. Sounds like I have a few things to change. Thank you for all the info!

[Windex]

Side Note as far as the micronutrients is that I use, and have used Orange Triad by Controlled Labs since I started lifting 8 years ago. Do I believe multivitamins are as effective as whole food? No. But it is a way to hit those numbers as far as micronutrients.

I have blood work scheduled for next week, as I plan to start in a few weeks and I read the recommended “pre” Test should be roughly two weeks out. Here is what they’re testing: Common and free testosterone, Follicle-stimulating hormone, Luteinizing hormone, Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesteron, Cortisol, Thyroxine.

As for the HCG and AI, through my research the 400/wk will have me shut down by week 4. But at such low doses of test, in comparison to some, will my estrogen rise high enough to need a complete Estrogen blocker such as HCG or an AI? Or will the Nolva which basically impedes the effects of Estrogen be a better choice due to the relatively lower levels than most in this situation?

Through my research I was pretty set on the Test and Var being a very “beginner” cycle especially at the low doses of both supplements. What effects will the anavar have on my estrogen levels that are making you say that?

Thank you for all your input by the way, it’s really appreciated.

It's not about the effects on Anavar on estrogen - its about understanding how Testosterone runs in your body at supraphysiological levels. Testosterone is the base of every cycle and the only way you will ever know what dose of Test works best is from running it alone with bloodwork to see hormone levels.

There is a sticky on how to run a first successful cycle you should read that.

HCG is not an estrogen blocker, not sure where you read that. It's used to prevent your testicles from turning into peanuts and it replaces LH + FSH in the pressence of exogenous testoserone.

There is no golden rule on when you get shut down on Testosterone - week 4 is a lot of bro-science nonsense. I've seen people with accompanying bloodwork (Ie FSH+LH at 0) as early as week 2. It all depends on your body.

400mg is not a low dose of Test. Testoserone Replacement Therapy typically starts at 80-100mg per week, so 400mg is 4x a therapeutic dose.

There is more to nutrition than vitamins, minerals, carbs, fat, and protein. There is also phytonutrients, carb sensitivity, fasting, and 101 other things that are important for longterm goals. On top of that, multivitamins often do more damage than benefit. Orange Triad is the perfect example of a useless product. It has an unhealthy, even borderline long-term dangerous amount of B12. The "joint complex" is at a higher dose of someone who would be pre-osteoporosis. The Vitamins A, K, and C are completely eclipsed from the Asaparagus you are eating. 2 of the 3 derivatives of the Calcium they use are barely bio-available for absorption. 400 grams of berries has more antioxidants than the entire 6capsules of Orange Triad. Long story short you are wasting your money on it.


10-15lbs of muscle is never going to happen in 1 cycle at your point, even if your bathtub was full of Testosterone and you had a garage of Anavar tablets. The scale will go up 10-15lbs provided a caloric surplus but it's going to include fat and water retention. Not trying to rain on your parade but it's important to have realistic expectations - the member cycel results thread is a good place to start where other members include before/after pictures. A lot of beginners can't visualize what 2, 4, or 6 lbs of muscle mass increase looks like. Even something as simple as 3 lbs of muscle gained and 3 lbs of fat lost is a big transformation. When people have unrealistic expectations they often end up either trying to stay on or increasing doses for no reason.

[MDFF325]

It's not about the effects on Anavar on estrogen - its about understanding how Testosterone runs in your body at supraphysiological levels. Testosterone is the base of every cycle and the only way you will ever know what dose of Test works best is from running it alone with bloodwork to see hormone levels.

There is a sticky on how to run a first successful cycle you should read that.

HCG is not an estrogen blocker, not sure where you read that. It's used to prevent your testicles from turning into peanuts and it replaces LH + FSH in the pressence of exogenous testoserone.

There is no golden rule on when you get shut down on Testosterone - week 4 is a lot of bro-science nonsense. I've seen people with accompanying bloodwork (Ie FSH+LH at 0) as early as week 2. It all depends on your body.

400mg is not a low dose of Test. Testoserone Replacement Therapy typically starts at 80-100mg per week, so 400mg is 4x a therapeutic dose.

There is more to nutrition than vitamins, minerals, carbs, fat, and protein. There is also phytonutrients, carb sensitivity, fasting, and 101 other things that are important for longterm goals. On top of that, multivitamins often do more damage than benefit. Orange Triad is the perfect example of a useless product. It has an unhealthy, even borderline long-term dangerous amount of B12. The "joint complex" is at a higher dose of someone who would be pre-osteoporosis. The Vitamins A, K, and C are completely eclipsed from the Asaparagus you are eating. 2 of the 3 derivatives of the Calcium they use are barely bio-available for absorption. 400 grams of berries has more antioxidants than the entire 6capsules of Orange Triad. Long story short you are wasting your money on it.


10-15lbs of muscle is never going to happen in 1 cycle at your point, even if your bathtub was full of Testosterone and you had a garage of Anavar tablets. The scale will go up 10-15lbs provided a caloric surplus but it's going to include fat and water retention. Not trying to rain on your parade but it's important to have realistic expectations - the member cycel results thread is a good place to start where other members include before/after pictures. A lot of beginners can't visualize what 2, 4, or 6 lbs of muscle mass increase looks like. Even something as simple as 3 lbs of muscle gained and 3 lbs of fat lost is a big transformation. When people have unrealistic expectations they often end up either trying to stay on or increasing doses for no reason.

To start you’re not raining on my parade, you’re obviously more educated than I am and that’s exactly why I started this thread. It was to learn and perfect this cycle before beginning. I clearly have a lot more research to do and will take all your advice into consideration. I have a lot to work on with my diet, it sounds like I’d be an idiot to not get HCG. The combo of Var and Test I’m still going to heavily research. I’ll go read those threads, especially regarding PCT and my first cycle as a whole. Thank you very much.