hypothetical question about stack....

[Quester]

unfortunately for a lot of guys , test/tren/mast, is not going to put on a lot of size (lot of guys run stacks like this and end up losing weight even though they thought they were going to get huge).
its probably the most common shredding cycle though




I agree here especially if your just training and running gear for shits and giggles. might as well start low and get what you can out of that first.
However, for anyone really serious I take the opposite approach.
I'll explain

lets say you had two identical twins with exactly the same genetics, training, diets, etc.. after 3 years of natty training they are ready for gear. they are both 190 pounds.
twin A, starts with your traditional low dosage cycles and over time slowly works his dosage up with each new cycle he does
twin B, starts with advanced cycles and protocols and over time becomes very efficient at utilizing AAS and doesn't have to keep going up

if they both have 3 years of enhanced bodybuilding , twin B is going to get much more results and have a more muscular physique over that 3 years then twin A.

thats because Twin B by using advanced AAS protocols and heavier dosages is going to force his body to adapt to that massive influx of hormones and he will ultimately build more androgen receptors to accommodate the heavy dosages and create more muscle cells and create cells that are more efficient at using AAS compounds (cells produced while under the influence of AAS are built to better utilize AAS then cells existing prior to AAS usage).
the twin A approach with small dosages slowly worked up over time is not going to create the homeostatic stress response to make all the things happen that twin B did.

Twin B is simply going to have more androgen receptors, more cell nuclei, more cells, and have cells that better utilize AAS . thus he will ultimately be the more muscular twin.

so really , it depends on your goals and your health concerns..


I know of bodybuilders that started AAS later in life that say if they were to go back and do it all again they would of started at a much younger age and would of utilized more advanced AAS and high amounts of HGH , even as young as 17 .. <--- I'm not promoting that, I'm simply repeating what someone else has said.

This runs contrary to all of the advice I've heard on here about making the first cycle simple and each additional cycle as simplistic until one can't gain without advanced protocals.

[GearHeaded]

This runs contrary to all of the advice I've heard on here about making the first cycle simple and each additional cycle as simplistic until one can't gain without advanced protocals.

well it wasn't "advice" it just happens to be a scientific and biological fact. but that doesn't mean that anyone should follow it just cause it true.
the slow steady and conservative approach is still the best advice for most anyone reading these posts.
just because something is scientifically true doesn't mean it should necessarily be followed (again I was not giving advice).
just like the fact that yes DNP will help you burn fat, period. no doubt. but that doesn't mean you should take it... thats all I was saying in regards to aggressive dosages

[Quester]

well it wasn't "advice" it just happens to be a scientific and biological fact. but that doesn't mean that anyone should follow it just cause it true.
the slow steady and conservative approach is still the best advice for most anyone reading these posts.
just because something is scientifically true doesn't mean it should necessarily be followed (again I was not giving advice).
just like the fact that yes DNP will help you burn fat, period. no doubt. but that doesn't mean you should take it... thats all I was saying in regards to aggressive dosages

GH,
-Just because I'm not debating the science doesn't mean you are correct. It is for you to prove that taking massive amounts of inputs will stimulate receptors to grow in number. Anecdotal evidence does have a place, it is significant, and you have a lot more of it than I, or anyone I know, ever will. Your anecdotal evidence supporting this is the beginning of science but, true science is not supported by ones experiences but by the scientific method. The science of it is not specific to just AAS. It is a universal principle, feedback loops, receptor stimulation, etc. You know enough about this and the associated science that you could easily support these statements, if you wanted too. Simply using the words like "biological and scientific fact" may sell cars or get one elected to public office but offer no real proof of anything.
-In the way this forum mirrors our western culture, it is upon the claimant to prove, not the audience to disprove.
-My specific motivation is that I am in healthcare and I care about the health of others. I also care about the integrity of this forum and the integrity of the process.
-It is also true that advancements are often made outside of the realm of true science. This forum has respected that as well. Therefore, nobody should have a problem with you sharing knowledge based upon your experience, we are all benefiting from your knowledge and I THANK YOU FOR THAT.
-Another aspect of the culture of this forum is erring on the side of safety. Perhaps you could frame these types of ideas with a healthy respect for that?
-This specific thread does say "hypothetical." And, I apologize that my comments may appear to be antagonistic. It isn't the intention, the intention is to respect the past and be reasonable with regard to the fact that most of the people who read these threads are not in the 10% or 1% of the elite that HUGELY benefit from the sharing of your insights and accumulated experience.

[GearHeaded]

You know enough about this and the associated science that you could easily support these statements, if you wanted too. Simply using the words like "biological and scientific fact" may sell cars or get one elected to public office but offer no real proof of anything.
-In the way this forum mirrors our western culture, it is upon the claimant to prove, not the audience to disprove.

well I'll be bluntly honest here.. I'm not on this forum to 'prove' anything. I have no motive or dog in any fight (I'm here for my own entertainment like everyone else). I feel no need to back up things I say with scientific evidence, even though like you say , I probably could. but I'm not here to do that (nor is this the place for such things.. this is not a private invite academic board)

if this forum wants to hire an on board full time scientist to make sure every claim made on here is true , then thats fine , but I'm not in any position or have any motivation to write 'academic' or scholarly posts on here . I simply share my thoughts and experiences as a "bro" and "juice head" "meat head" "trainer" "bodybuilding coach" "gym owner" etc. and whatever else I may be (but scientist or academic is not one of those).

this is a board full of gym bros and juice heads. not academic students. I feel inspired to talk freely and talk shit here just like I would in my gym. I don't need to be tested and proved correct in everything I say on here. even if what I say is 100% scientifically accurate.. who really gives a shit. no one really. guys will take it with a grain of salt and experiment for themselves.

besides. if anyone takes anything I say on here as 'absolute truth' and scientific fact , and thats coming to them from a complete stranger online ,, then they are a fool.
its up to you all to figure it out for yourselves. I'm just some juice head behind a keyboard.

Quester, perhaps you may be in school and in academics. but I think you often times misplace this public forum as a place for 'debate' and 'academic review' ,, but its not that. there are places for that type of stuff (and they are usually private invite only).
I'm not here to prove anything or debate anyone. this in my opinion is not the place for that type of thing.
I know several times you've looked at posts that I've done and interacted with them thinking that I needed to prove what I was saying with science. but I don't care to do so. I have zero need to feel justified in what I say.. if someone can take some of the posts that I do and learn something from them and get something out of them and end up putting on 20 pounds of muscle and feeling great , then good for them, I'm glad (I don't need any justification in return). I don't need to be proved right. I'll continue providing the information that I do , and you all guys can take it or leave it ( I gain nothing from being right or wrong either way)