First Cycle

[GearHeaded]

perhaps Austinite would agree at this point now , being theres been a ton of anecdotal evidence and peoples experiences to go off of since that sticky was originally written . BUT taking Arimidex at .25mg every other day from day one of a 500mg a week test E cycle is not ideal. I've seen lots of problems with guys doing this.

3 weeks into the cycle . I've seen guys saying I'm lethargic, I have no sex drive, I have brain fog, my body feels achy and sore , etc etc.. when they thought that 3 weeks in they were supposed to feel like a god and on top of the world.

starting Arimidex at that high of a dosage form DAY 1 , with only 500mg of a slow releasing test often times results in a very skewed androgen to estrogen ratio . your androgens begin elevating, while your estrogen begins declining and possibly crashing. your going to be a hormonal nightmare if this happens. as your androgens begin elevating (from injecting test) your estrogen is SUPPOSED to elevate along with that.
driving estro way down while driving androgens up at the same time is going to cause problems.

[Test Monsterone]

perhaps Austinite would agree at this point now , being theres been a ton of anecdotal evidence and peoples experiences to go off of since that sticky was originally written . BUT taking Arimidex at .25mg every other day from day one of a 500mg a week test E cycle is not ideal. I've seen lots of problems with guys doing this.

3 weeks into the cycle . I've seen guys saying I'm lethargic, I have no sex drive, I have brain fog, my body feels achy and sore , etc etc.. when they thought that 3 weeks in they were supposed to feel like a god and on top of the world.

starting Arimidex at that high of a dosage form DAY 1 , with only 500mg of a slow releasing test often times results in a very skewed androgen to estrogen ratio . your androgens begin elevating, while your estrogen begins declining and possibly crashing. your going to be a hormonal nightmare if this happens. as your androgens begin elevating (from injecting test) your estrogen is SUPPOSED to elevate along with that.
driving estro way down while driving androgens up at the same time is going to cause problems.

Damn I’m doing .25 mg EOD just now. 200 mg test prop/ 550 mg EQ / 125 mg test E. I know you said the EQ has anti estrogenic properties but it takes a while to kick in. Maybe I should lower the dose later.

[GearHeaded]

Damn I’m doing .25 mg EOD just now. 200 mg test prop/ 550 mg EQ / 125 mg test E. I know you said the EQ has anti estrogenic properties but it takes a while to kick in. Maybe I should lower the dose later.

yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic, increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

check this vid out for more info

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.

[Test Monsterone]

yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic, increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

check this vid out for more info

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.

Yes, I always remember you telling me not to overdo it with the AIs on my first cycle. I think I was taking .5 mg/week on around 800 mg/week of test and I didn't get gyno or too much water retention. My BP did go up. It's interesting, because right after my cycle I think I started getting estrogenic sides like puffy hands and stiff fingers.

This time I'm on a cut for the summer so I kind of want to keep bloat down. I will need to run bloods mid way to see where my levels are.

[Littlearnie]

yes EQ has anti estrogen properties through an enzymatic process. this process takes time to build up.. but the longer your on EQ the more anti estrogenic effects you get.
however depending on your goals you may not want or desire these anti estrogen effects (as estrogen in the presence of elevated androgens is extremely anabolic, increases IGF production, HGH output, and hepatic HDL production). its kinda hard to put on muscle when your E levels are low. sometimes adding a compound like Dbol or Ment just to get additional estrogen conversion can be beneficial to a cycle,, let alone thinking of taking an AI and hindering estrogen from the start.

its all person and context dependent. theres a time and a place to keep estrogen in the normal range. theres a time and a place to let it skyrocket and enhance muscle growth. it really depends on the situation .

but AI's are not generally "needed" by any means . and in fact some people will go so far as to say they are dangerous and unhealthy and should't even be part of a TRT protocol let alone a cycle (I personally still see a use for them in various situations).

check this vid out for more info

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...l-villian.html


even if your estrogen sensitive and prone to gyno . theres a whole heck of a lot of ways to run AAS with no need for an AI .. as 80% of the steroids available for us to use don't even convert to estrogen in the fist place, and as previously stated some of them are anti estrogenic .
its generally only the "test only cycles " crowd that see a need for AI's . but for guys that run mainly anabolics, AI's are never generally needed.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by eq and anti estrongenic properties.
Because at first I thought it meant it lowers extrogen. Or that it counters the test. But if you read the profiles on site like steroidal.con it states it converts to estorgen all the same but just at a much lower rate.
The anabolic doc on you tube says it is half as estrogenic as test...

[Thors_Hammer]

3rd pin yesterday went great.
Z Track Method really helped out, thanks again for the tip Windex.
Only my 3rd pin but so far after each time my quad is sore for 2-3 days. Nothing that is too bothersome though, just have to go slow when I stretch that side.

Last night's workout was fun and I'm not sure if it's just a mental side effect of things or if I am starting to feel it kick in (test e) but things felt..... better, even when I normally would be struggling to finish a set I just felt like I could give it more.
And even after my workout I felt less dead. Ha I know the wording is weird but I don't know how to describe it other ways.
Basically where I would normally want to come home and just crash after eating I still felt energized.

Looking forward to all my workouts on cycle if they are like this.

[GearHeaded]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by eq and anti estrongenic properties.
Because at first I thought it meant it lowers extrogen. Or that it counters the test. But if you read the profiles on site like steroidal.con it states it converts to estorgen all the same but just at a much lower rate.
The anabolic doc on you tube says it is half as estrogenic as test...

one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here

[Mr.Smith54]

one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here

Apologies, don't mean to hijack this thread but very interested in this response. i'll make it quick. So if someone were interested in running a trt dose of test (200/wk) with say 600/wk of EQ, judging from this answer, could you expect the benefits of test (strength, size) with minimal to zero estro issues because of the EQ minimizing or eliminating the estro conversion?

[GearHeaded]

Apologies, don't mean to hijack this thread but very interested in this response. i'll make it quick. So if someone were interested in running a trt dose of test (200/wk) with say 600/wk of EQ, judging from this answer, could you expect the benefits of test (strength, size) with minimal to zero estro issues because of the EQ minimizing or eliminating the estro conversion?

well the benefits of test, ie. size, come largely from its ability to aromatize and increase estrogen levels. estrogen is very anabolic in the presence of elevated androgens (test is an androgen, as androgen levels go up, estrogen going up with it will really help put on the size). This is why ranchers have injected cattle with estrogen along with their androgens. you'll get more muscle and more growth with high levels of estrogen.

but anyhow, if you don't want the elevated estrogen (you may limit your growth potential) you can still get some basic anabolic tissue building effects out of stacking low dose Test with high dose EQ.
in fact I've promoted this protocol lots of times on this board . here it is .. if your estrogen sensitive but you want to run a gram of test (and avoid AI's) then simply stack 800mg of EQ with 200mg of Test and that will give you your 1000mg base your looking for, but at much much lower estrogen effects then running a gram of just test (the purpose of test to a large degree is to get your estrogen and dht conversion.. if you don't want either of those hormones then you barely need to run any test with your cycles). and EQ is basically testosterone without the strong estrogen effects. so its very valid to use EQ to replace Test for the purpose of keeping total estrogen load low in your cycle.


this is all situation and context dependent though.. if your in a position where you need to put on 50 pounds over the next couple years, your going to want to run wet and estrogenic compounds as the estrogen will help with growth. If your just trying to refine the mass you already have, then go dry and light on the estrogen.

[Littlearnie]

one thing thats often rarely touched upon in the AAS use world is ENZYMES and enzymatic processes. though it plays a huge role.
example, DHT is a metabolite of testosterone and is a very powerful androgen . so powerful of a androgen its what makes a man into a man (and a fetus from female to male) . Yet DHT being so so very powerful , has zero anabolic properties in muscle tissue. why not ? because of an ENZYME , known for short as 3HSD. this enzyme binds and renders DHT useless in muscle tissue .. Enzymes are very powerful stuff.

EQ has anti estrogenic properties through its ability to upregulate/promote anti estrogen ENZYMES and enzyme processes in the body.

this is the type of stuff your NOT going to find on most your silly online steroid profiles. these profiles are largely outdated and way too generic.
funny thing is , the "anabolic doc" gets most of his information on steroids from these same online profiles the newbs use (its because he is not a steroid expert, he is just a marketer with a product to sell .. he only needs a very surface knowledge of steroids to sell his main product).

anyhow back to EQ . the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogenic enzymes build up, and the more anti estrogenic your EQ becomes.

also, be aware what "converts to estrogen" or "aromatization" even means . just because some drug has some aromatization does NOT mean its going to increase your estrogen levels one bit . in fact, just the opposite (depending on the context) , your total estrogen can go down.

if EQ converts to estrogen at an 80% lower rate then Testosterone does, and you decided to use EQ for your TRT (instead of test), then guess what ,, your total estrogen serum levels are going to go down.
if 500mg of test puts your estrogen at say 60 . then 500mg of EQ may put down as low as say 20 .. then when you add that anti estrogen enzyme factor in over time, it may go down even more.

again, a compound that aromatizes does not mean its going to increase your estrogen levels or cause estrogen sides.

people will say that Deca is estrogenic and you need to run an AI with it (utter bs). but Deca is a drug thats been studied in medicine (unlike some AAS), and you can find studies where patients are given 300mg of Deca per week , and yet universally across the board every person in the studies estrogen levels go DOWN not up (even though yes on paper deca aromatizes into estrogen just a wee little bit).

aromatization does not necessarily = more estrogen . when taking something like deca or EQ, even though it supposedly aromatizes, you may actually need to add extra estrogen into you stack just to keep from it going too low (note: you accomplish this by taking test.. thats what test is for, to increase your estrogen levels).

so again , yes EQ aromatizes into estrogen to a small degree. BUT so what, if you take EQ your total estrogen levels are likely going to go down unless you add something else in the mix to bring estrogen levels up

theres a big picture way a lot of this stuff all works , think often times thats hard for guys to grasp. hope this post is of some help here

Wow I almost missed this reply. I wish this website layout wasn’t from the dawn of creation and I actually got a prompt when there’s a reply...

Anyway thank you very much for the info.


Also this isn’t the first time you’ve shut down resources I’ve been trying to learn from. First it was the anavar guy now online profiles and the anabolic doc.

Do you have some good names to learn from or some sites with reliable and current info?

[Thors_Hammer]

Hey GearHeaded thanks for the input I always love hearing your thoughts.

I had wondered that but given my lack of experience (everything I "know" is just from reading) I didn't want to question the sticky.

Would you say that leaving it out for now until getting blood work done durring cycle be best? Then evaluate from there?