TRT question

[Cylon357]

In my experience the gel is not as effective. I was on it for 2 years. Cream is better I think. Some here use the cream

Gel is simply too low a dose to be effective. I think it caps out at max 2.5%. You end up slathering yourself daily to get barely mediocre numbers. Gel dries slower than cream and is sticky for longer.

Compounded cream eliminates gels two big weaknesses. It can be compounded up to 20%, thus giving you up to 8x the dose per volume. Further, it goes on easy and dries fast.

Some "drawbacks" to both...

They should be applied 2x per day. This is esterless testosterone, so the half life is about 3 hours, given absorption rates, etc. With the gel, that could be a hassle, but with cream it is not.

In addition, topicals 5 alpha reduce at roughly 2.5x more than injections. If you need the DHT, this is how you get it. If you don't, you should avoid topicals.

Source: I used the cream for about 3 months, I think, before switching to injections. AMA!

[Zenpump]

Gel is simply too low a dose to be effective. I think it caps out at max 2.5%. You end up slathering yourself daily to get barely mediocre numbers. Gel dries slower than cream and is sticky for longer.

Compounded cream eliminates gels two big weaknesses. It can be compounded up to 20%, thus giving you up to 8x the dose per volume. Further, it goes on easy and dries fast.

Some "drawbacks" to both...

They should be applied 2x per day. This is esterless testosterone, so the half life is about 3 hours, given absorption rates, etc. With the gel, that could be a hassle, but with cream it is not.

In addition, topicals 5 alpha reduce at roughly 2.5x more than injections. If you need the DHT, this is how you get it. If you don't, you should avoid topicals.

Source: I used the cream for about 3 months, I think, before switching to injections. AMA!

With respect to all, I disagree. I have had GREAT results with gels and can take my T to whatever level I want to with it. You don't need to pin it to get results - its the SAME testosterone! Repeat: It's the SAME testosterone. Eight years running and I have never had a problem with any of my bloodwork (at all) and it has never "waned". And who cares if pharma makes money on it? Just saying, it shouldn't be discounted just because it's not being injected. Personally, I think it's a great BASE even for those using injectable AAS. And it's daily so no peaks/troughs.

[Cylon357]

With respect to all, I disagree. I have had GREAT results with gels and can take my T to whatever level I want to with it. You don't need to pin it to get results - its the SAME testosterone! Repeat: It's the SAME testosterone. Eight years running and I have never had a problem with any of my bloodwork (at all) and it has never "waned". And who cares if pharma makes money on it? Just saying, it shouldn't be discounted just because it's not being injected. Personally, I think it's a great BASE even for those using injectable AAS. And it's daily so no peaks/troughs.

You can disagree, if you like, though I believe that you would be the outlier on effectiveness with gel. It can work for some men, apparently.

I'm not sure what you mean by repeating "it's the SAME testosterone". I didn't see anyone say it isn't. If you mean it's attached to the cypionate Ester, or any Ester, please post evidence of that.

[Zenpump]

My point is your T levels ( as a base) are your T levels, whether its injected or rubbed on your skin. I think to some extent we are talking past each other. The point isn't to get JACKED on your TRT. Never has been. TRT by definition involved re-installing "normal" levels of T in those deficient. Anything above "normal" (high end is debateable but somewhere around 1000) is not TRT - it's a steroid cycle.

I am not suggesting you use gels for your steroid cycle! I am suggesting, depending on your goals, that gels are very effective for TRT (hell millions of men on using them). Are you going to win the Olympia on gels? Of course not. But I would suggest that TRT in general and gels in particular are a great way to form a T BASE for cycles. They are doctor prescribed (including ongoing blood work), insurance covered, low to no side effects (I have had 0 in 8 years with a T level above 700), easy to use (put on in the morning after shower like deoderant), easy to travel, etc. And they WORK for what they are meant for....TRT. And your T levels are upped DAILY and are YEAR ROUND so no PCT needed.

[teedoff]

With respect to all, I disagree. I have had GREAT results with gels and can take my T to whatever level I want to with it. You don't need to pin it to get results - its the SAME testosterone! Repeat: It's the SAME testosterone. Eight years running and I have never had a problem with any of my bloodwork (at all) and it has never "waned". And who cares if pharma makes money on it? Just saying, it shouldn't be discounted just because it's not being injected. Personally, I think it's a great BASE even for those using injectable AAS. And it's daily so no peaks/troughs.

I can tell you what I experienced. Gel for 2 years at one pump a day. Had blood work done by a urologist and my test was around 300. He suggested I double the dose to two pumps or switch to injections. I did two pumps a day for a month or so before going to a hormone clinic and switching to injections.

[Zenpump]

I can tell you what I experienced. Gel for 2 years at one pump a day. Had blood work done by a urologist and my test was around 300. He suggested I double the dose to two pumps or switch to injections. I did two pumps a day for a month or so before going to a hormone clinic and switching to injections.

This is a prime example of misuse/understanding! 1 pump per day? Thats definitely not enough! If 1 pump got you to 300, then 2 would have put you 450-500 ( guestimating). 3 pumps would have been 650-800 (guestimating) and 4 pumps over 1000 (its not linear).

Why did you not get tested after migrating to 2 pumps when a single pump put you at the low end of normal?

The gel makers themselves suggest up to 4 pumps daily.

[teedoff]

This is a prime example of misuse/understanding! 1 pump per day? Thats definitely not enough! If 1 pump got you to 300, then 2 would have put you 450-500 ( guestimating). 3 pumps would have been 650-800 (guestimating) and 4 pumps over 1000 (its not linear).

Why did you not get tested after migrating to 2 pumps when a single pump put you at the low end of normal?

The gel makers themselves suggest up to 4 pumps daily.

Not enough according to whom? Thats what my Dr prescribed. One pump a day...worked fine for almost 2 years until it didnt work any longer. One pump got me to around 700. Have all my labs from the last 4 years to prove it. Then for some reason, the labs I had done at my urologist, my test was 300 again. Perhaps it was drawn on different days, but he's the one that suggested I do 2 pumps which I did for about 2 months before just switching to injections.

Just got labs done 2 weeks ago on Friday morning. My injections are on Saturday or Sunday as I forget sometimes. This lab my test was 800+ on 100mg/week.

[Zenpump]

Not enough according to whom? Thats what my Dr prescribed. One pump a day...worked fine for almost 2 years until it didnt work any longer. One pump got me to around 700. Have all my labs from the last 4 years to prove it. Then for some reason, the labs I had done at my urologist, my test was 300 again. Perhaps it was drawn on different days, but he's the one that suggested I do 2 pumps which I did for about 2 months before just switching to injections.

Just got labs done 2 weeks ago on Friday morning. My injections are on Saturday or Sunday as I forget sometimes. This lab my test was 800+ on 100mg/week.

Did you get bloods after switching to 2 pumps?

I never said injections dont work - I just said gels do and have for me for 8+ years. All respect...we should probably move on at this point!!

[Honkey_Kong]

This is a prime example of misuse/understanding! 1 pump per day? Thats definitely not enough! If 1 pump got you to 300, then 2 would have put you 450-500 ( guestimating). 3 pumps would have been 650-800 (guestimating) and 4 pumps over 1000 (its not linear).

Why did you not get tested after migrating to 2 pumps when a single pump put you at the low end of normal?

The gel makers themselves suggest up to 4 pumps daily.

Some guys have skin that better absorbs the testosterone than others. And over time the absorption rate can change for some people as their skin conditions can change. My real gripe with the gels and cream are that you have to be careful about making physical contact with your wife/girlfriend before they totally gel. Plus if you have young kids that's another factor.

That and injecting is one or two times a week (depending on your protocol) and then you don't have to worry about it at all.

[Zenpump]

Some guys have skin that better absorbs the testosterone than others. And over time the absorption rate can change for some people as their skin conditions can change. My real gripe with the gels and cream are that you have to be careful about making physical contact with your wife/girlfriend before they totally gel. Plus if you have young kids that's another factor.

That and injecting is one or two times a week (depending on your protocol) and then you don't have to worry about it at all.

All true

[kelkel]

In addition, topicals 5 alpha reduce at roughly 2.5x more than injections. If you need the DHT, this is how you get it. If you don't, you should avoid topicals.

Source: I used the cream for about 3 months, I think, before switching to injections. AMA!

Adding to that, most doctors rarely ever monitor DHT levels unless specifically asked.