Guns and Ammo Thread

[JTP$]

It’s similar to a glock 22, 40 caliber as terms as recoil goes. My 40 cal SW has more recoil than my 10mm springfield but the barrel is alot shorter also

40 is a snappy round by nature, the recoil actually surprised me the first time i shot my bros FN 40 because it seemed more energetic than my glock 30 in .45 ACP.

what brand of 10mm were you running? the reason i ask is because some 10mm ammo is actually not loaded very hot. when i picked up my glock 20 i told my FFL dealer i wanted some hot 10mm ammo and he sold me a few boxes of PMC, recoil felt weak. but other types of ammo have alot more power behind them.

Read a review of this about a month ago, ordered it instantly & just started reading.

1/4 of the way into it, and wow - great book so far!

the AR15 is one of, if not the very best rifle ever made. the more i shoot mine the more i love that platform of rifle.

put an ACOG TA31 on it and you have literal perfection

[Cuz]

40 is a snappy round by nature, the recoil actually surprised me the first time i shot my bros FN 40 because it seemed more energetic than my glock 30 in .45 ACP.

what brand of 10mm were you running? the reason i ask is because some 10mm ammo is actually not loaded very hot. when i picked up my glock 20 i told my FFL dealer i wanted some hot 10mm ammo and he sold me a few boxes of PMC, recoil felt weak. but other types of ammo have alot more power behind them.



the AR15 is one of, if not the very best rifle ever made. the more i shoot mine the more i love that platform of rifle.

put an ACOG TA31 on it and you have literal perfection

S & B, yeah they arent hot. I plan on buying some in the future just not now. Ammo is just to damn expensive right now

[Honkey_Kong]

40 is a snappy round by nature, the recoil actually surprised me the first time i shot my bros FN 40 because it seemed more energetic than my glock 30 in .45 ACP.

what brand of 10mm were you running? the reason i ask is because some 10mm ammo is actually not loaded very hot. when i picked up my glock 20 i told my FFL dealer i wanted some hot 10mm ammo and he sold me a few boxes of PMC, recoil felt weak. but other types of ammo have alot more power behind them.



the AR15 is one of, if not the very best rifle ever made. the more i shoot mine the more i love that platform of rifle.

put an ACOG TA31 on it and you have literal perfection

One thing you have to take in to account is the weight of the pistol with a loaded magazine in it. 40S&W projectiles usually are between 135-185 grains, whereas a 45 ACP projectile can weigh from 185 grains to 250 grains. Then you have to factor in the weight of the casing and although neglegible, the weight of the powder and primer. That added weight the 45 has can have some effect on perceived recoil as it has more mass at rest.

Then you have to factor in the mass of the projectile + velocity. And for a 45 acp 240gr projectile going at 850fps (which is above average for 45) can give you 385 foot pounds of force. A 40 S&W round weight 150 grains going at 1200fps has 480 foot pounds of force

So going by that, 9mm is lighter weight and has projectiles traveling with on average more energy footpounds of force, so it makes sense that it's going to have more perceived recoil given similar barrel length and unloaded pistol weights.

On a little tangent, I got this cheap hipoint in 40 S&W. That pistol weighs so much you can barely feel any recoil at all with it (like you almost feel like the first one you shoot was a squib).

But yeah, if you want "hot" factory made rounds, get a chronograph and experiment. My experiences have been that the guys at the store don't know what they're talking about a great deal of the time and they rely solely on the velocities published by the manufacturer. And those manufacturers are trying to sell you ammo so they're never comparing apples to apples.

Often times, you'll find that your standard cheap ammos out-perform the more expensive "performance" rounds in velocity and foot pounds of force. Not to mention, that hotter rounds do not necessarily correlate to better accuracy.

And as far as AR rifles go. I like them a lot. But I also know that local laws from one jurisdiction to another can vary greatly and you might not be able to obtain one legally. A Mini 14 chambered in 5.56 might be a good alternative in those situations. Plus if you had to use lethal force on somebody, the negative stigma of an AR can definitely influence a jury and a DA. It might be the difference between being charged and convicted of a crime or you walking free.

[wango]

the AR15 is one of, if not the very best rifle ever made. the more i shoot mine the more i love that platform of rifle.

put an ACOG TA31 on it and you have literal perfection

The chapters devoted to the creation of the rifle &‘ the inventor were amazing. As was those about getting the gun ultimately accepted by the military & the military’s f’n up the M16 in Vietnam. I’ve got a copy of the training manual that was made as a comic book for the soldiers coming tomorrow. The story about the military covering up their mistakes at the cost of soldiers lives was tragic (but unfortunately typical).

[JTP$]

S & B, yeah they arent hot. I plan on buying some in the future just not now. Ammo is just to damn expensive right now

I hear ya man, the price of ammo is absurd, and so is the price of everything else like gas and food. I have no desire to blow through thousands of dollars on guns and ammo right now.

One thing you have to take in to account is the weight of the pistol with a loaded magazine in it. 40S&W projectiles usually are between 135-185 grains, whereas a 45 ACP projectile can weigh from 185 grains to 250 grains. Then you have to factor in the weight of the casing and although neglegible, the weight of the powder and primer. That added weight the 45 has can have some effect on perceived recoil as it has more mass at rest.

Then you have to factor in the mass of the projectile + velocity. And for a 45 acp 240gr projectile going at 850fps (which is above average for 45) can give you 385 foot pounds of force. A 40 S&W round weight 150 grains going at 1200fps has 480 foot pounds of force

So going by that, 9mm is lighter weight and has projectiles traveling with on average more energy footpounds of force, so it makes sense that it's going to have more perceived recoil given similar barrel length and unloaded pistol weights.

On a little tangent, I got this cheap hipoint in 40 S&W. That pistol weighs so much you can barely feel any recoil at all with it (like you almost feel like the first one you shoot was a squib).

But yeah, if you want "hot" factory made rounds, get a chronograph and experiment. My experiences have been that the guys at the store don't know what they're talking about a great deal of the time and they rely solely on the velocities published by the manufacturer. And those manufacturers are trying to sell you ammo so they're never comparing apples to apples.

Often times, you'll find that your standard cheap ammos out-perform the more expensive "performance" rounds in velocity and foot pounds of force. Not to mention, that hotter rounds do not necessarily correlate to better accuracy.

And as far as AR rifles go. I like them a lot. But I also know that local laws from one jurisdiction to another can vary greatly and you might not be able to obtain one legally. A Mini 14 chambered in 5.56 might be a good alternative in those situations. Plus if you had to use lethal force on somebody, the negative stigma of an AR can definitely influence a jury and a DA. It might be the difference between being charged and convicted of a crime or you walking free.

True, all of these factors come into play, but i was expecting a full size FN to reoil less than a subcompact glock, which is chambered in a bigger round. 40 s&w is a higher pressure round which forces the projectile to accelerate faster than the lower pressure .45

as for high point, ive seen alot of video reviews of them and they actually are very reliable pistols, but i cant get over how ugly they are. id rather spend the extra money and get another glock. also, you are 100% correct, using an AR for home defense is more likely to result in criminal charges than using a shotgun or a pistol. i keep a glock 17 and a glock 19 on the nightstand next to my bed with a couple spare 33 round mags, and a GP WASR10-63 with a bayonet and 40 round mag for easy access along with another 3 loaded 40 round mags, but one of my glocks would be the go to, the AK is only for worst case scenario, plus i just like looking at it.

The chapters devoted to the creation of the rifle &‘ the inventor were amazing. As was those about getting the gun ultimately accepted by the military & the military’s f’n up the M16 in Vietnam. I’ve got a copy of the training manual that was made as a comic book for the soldiers coming tomorrow. The story about the military covering up their mistakes at the cost of soldiers lives was tragic (but unfortunately typical).

i am vaguely familiar with the origins of the AR15, as i understand it the AR10 in .308 came first but it was not well liked. the 5.56 AR15 was much more popular and sold better. its pretty messed up what happened with the M16 in the early years of vietnam though, apparently the ammo that came with it was loaded with the wrong type of powder which caused excess fowling. its rumored this was a deliberate move made my crooked politicians who were mad the M14 wasnt adopted, so they tried to sabotage the M16. this wrong powder type along with a non-chrome lined chamber resulted in a very unreliable rifle that caused alot of american soldiers to die.

[wango]

its pretty messed up what happened with the M16 in the early years of vietnam though, apparently the ammo that came with it was loaded with the wrong type of powder which caused excess fowling. its rumored this was a deliberate move made my crooked politicians who were mad the M14 wasnt adopted, so they tried to sabotage the M16. this wrong powder type along with a non-chrome lined chamber resulted in a very unreliable rifle that caused alot of american soldiers to die.

The book found the blame was with the military. The initial rifles & ammunition used in Vietnam were fine, but they saved $ by not using the chrome & they changed the propellant in the ammunition (availability issue apparently). Seems they knew there was a problem really quickly, even the inventor warned them of the exact issue, but didn’t they do anything except cover it up. The military pissed off the inventor again when they limited the rifle to 3 round bursts in the 90’s. The dude was really amazing, what a friggen creative genius.

[Honkey_Kong]

I hear ya man, the price of ammo is absurd, and so is the price of everything else like gas and food. I have no desire to blow through thousands of dollars on guns and ammo right now.



True, all of these factors come into play, but i was expecting a full size FN to reoil less than a subcompact glock, which is chambered in a bigger round. 40 s&w is a higher pressure round which forces the projectile to accelerate faster than the lower pressure .45

as for high point, ive seen alot of video reviews of them and they actually are very reliable pistols, but i cant get over how ugly they are. id rather spend the extra money and get another glock. also, you are 100% correct, using an AR for home defense is more likely to result in criminal charges than using a shotgun or a pistol. i keep a glock 17 and a glock 19 on the nightstand next to my bed with a couple spare 33 round mags, and a GP WASR10-63 with a bayonet and 40 round mag for easy access along with another 3 loaded 40 round mags, but one of my glocks would be the go to, the AK is only for worst case scenario, plus i just like looking at it.

Honestly, I don't really see the point in keeping a 33 shot magazine next to your nightstand. According to the FBI, 70-90% of all citizen-involved self-defense shootings are resolved in under 4 rounds. The majority of them are solved in 1-2 rounds. Very rarely are 10 shots needed to solve the problem. And if you're in a sort of situation where you have several people you need to equalize, a shotgun probably would be more practical.

If you whip out a 33 shot magazine, that would likely be used as evidence to say you were not acting in self-defense. But regardless, it'd be smart for all gun owners to buy personal firearm liability insurance. Think of it as like buying car insurance. You don't plan on getting in to an accident, but if you did get in one, it's a life saver to have.

[JTP$]

Honestly, I don't really see the point in keeping a 33 shot magazine next to your nightstand. According to the FBI, 70-90% of all citizen-involved self-defense shootings are resolved in under 4 rounds. The majority of them are solved in 1-2 rounds. Very rarely are 10 shots needed to solve the problem. And if you're in a sort of situation where you have several people you need to equalize, a shotgun probably would be more practical.

If you whip out a 33 shot magazine, that would likely be used as evidence to say you were not acting in self-defense. But regardless, it'd be smart for all gun owners to buy personal firearm liability insurance. Think of it as like buying car insurance. You don't plan on getting in to an accident, but if you did get in one, it's a life saver to have.

The burden of proof would lie on the prosecutor to convince the court i actually had a 33 round mag in my glock instead of a flush fit 17 or 15 round. although on the other hand, if some scumbag broke into my house and i was forced to use a firearm in self defense, they would go through my internet activity and find these posts talking about it. so maybe im just screwed regardless and should roll with my saiga 12 or my 16" aero M5 in 308 with 25 round mags.

Another firearm i would like to get is a mossberg 590A1 retro, put some 2 3/4" #4 buck shells in it. there is the risk of short chucking it, but one well placed 12 gauge blast is very likely to stop an attacker immediately. the same can not be said of other rounds, especially pistol calibers


just for the record though, the idea that we as law abiding citizens should be required to use sporting firearms to give an attacker a sporting chance at being successful at killing us or our loved ones is absolute horse shit.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Honestly, I don't really see the point in keeping a 33 shot magazine next to your nightstand. According to the FBI, 70-90% of all citizen-involved self-defense shootings are resolved in under 4 rounds. The majority of them are solved in 1-2 rounds. Very rarely are 10 shots needed to solve the problem. And if you're in a sort of situation where you have several people you need to equalize, a shotgun probably would be more practical.

If you whip out a 33 shot magazine, that would likely be used as evidence to say you were not acting in self-defense. But regardless, it'd be smart for all gun owners to buy personal firearm liability insurance. Think of it as like buying car insurance. You don't plan on getting in to an accident, but if you did get in one, it's a life saver to have.

Any recommendations for reputable companies offering this product?

[Honkey_Kong]

Any recommendations for reputable companies offering this product?

You definitely should call your local gun ranges, Sheriff and police departments for who they would recommend, but USCCA and Right To Bear are the best I can think of (I use Right to Bear. And they'll have different pricings, based on the amount of coverage you want. It's pretty affordable though (like $35 and under per month). Most of the places include firing and safety training lessons.

[lovbyts]

Honestly, I don't really see the point in keeping a 33 shot magazine next to your nightstand. According to the FBI, 70-90% of all citizen-involved self-defense shootings are resolved in under 4 rounds. The majority of them are solved in 1-2 rounds. Very rarely are 10 shots needed to solve the problem. And if you're in a sort of situation where you have several people you need to equalize, a shotgun probably would be more practical.

If you whip out a 33 shot magazine, that would likely be used as evidence to say you were not acting in self-defense. But regardless, it'd be smart for all gun owners to buy personal firearm liability insurance. Think of it as like buying car insurance. You don't plan on getting in to an accident, but if you did get in one, it's a life saver to have.

Not really disagreeing with you especially about statistics but there is this.

[Honkey_Kong]

Not really disagreeing with you especially about statistics but there is this.

In Commiefornia, they've made the restrictions on them so gay, they're not worth having. You can't have a telescopic stock or pistol grips. Hell you have to have the 10 round (max) magazine fixed so that you have to pull the pins connecting the upper to the lower, just to reload (even the bullet button has been banned).

That's why I suggested a mini 14. They give you most of what you're looking for in capabilities of the AR platform. But yeah, it's just not the same.

[wango]

Oops!