Post election Covid news

[wango]

Not sure I understand the question?

Not really a question, but a reply where you stated the data hasn’t been gleaned yet.

Because Covid-19 has such a varied rate on different ages, you could see how the elderly, the healthcare workers, first responders are at a higher risk to Covid and would less likely worry about negative effects from the vaccine. Just as you said, you’re far more likely to be infected & subsequently ill from Covid, as compared to the vaccine. Thus the vaccine seems to be well worth any risks.

But, unlike the flu and other diseases that are far more serious in their symptoms for the younger population as compared to Covid, and where a vaccination is definitely warranted; Covid is different. There still is a back-lash and distrust of other vaccines by parents concerned about the [I]possibility[I] of autism. And if you are in your late teens or early twenties, what’s the likelihood you are going to be hospitalized or die from Covid? I can see how parents could be very hesitant about giving their child a vaccination to a disease that really isn’t that dangerous for their children. BUT, if you see a vaccine “rushed”, where other vaccines typically take years of study and development, I too might be concerned. What potential long term side effects might this vaccine possibly cause?

If I were to take the vaccine or give it to my children, I would want some definitive assurances that it is indeed safe.

Once again, not trying to be argumentative, but this is data that hasn’t been available to my knowledge. So regarding the general public being reluctant or concerned about being “forced” to vaccinate (which won’t happen), I can see their concern (unlike the reluctance of mask wearing, social distancing & large gatherings).

[tarmyg]

But, unlike the flu and other diseases that are far more serious in their symptoms for the younger population as compared to Covid, and where a vaccination is definitely warranted; Covid is different.

Do you have any data to back up this statement? I am genuinely interested in what should be obvious reasons!

And if you are in your late teens or early twenties, what’s the likelihood you are going to be hospitalized or die from Covid?

I mean, they are not taking the vaccine for themselves but to not transmit the disease to other which is the fact for most people with almost any illness.

I can see how parents could be very hesitant about giving their child a vaccination to a disease that really isn’t that dangerous for their children. BUT, if you see a vaccine “rushed”, where other vaccines typically take years of study and development, I too might be concerned. What potential long term side effects might this vaccine possibly cause?

I think I answered this to Cuz above but maybe in a different manner. This is not rushed. This is how long it would take if you spend 10-100 times more money on something involving 1000 upon 1000 of more people working towards a single target. The compute bill, alone, for Running the models of this is about $500,000/week. No one spends that kind of money normally on a vaccine as vaccines, generally speaking, is not a money-making machine compared to other medicines.

If I were to take the vaccine or give it to my children, I would want some definitive assurances that it is indeed safe.

You will never take a single vaccine if this is the requirement, it's that simple. The only one who could tell you this with 100% certainty would be God and I have not seen him making any vaccines lately.

If you have more targeted questions I'm happy to answer those but anymore wondering about safety, efficacy, and such I have already answered to the best of my ability and I think much can easily be extrapolated from that.

[wango]

I’m sorry, you misunderstood me a bit and that is my fault.

I did ask and you stated the answer wasn’t gleaned from the clinical trial data. That’s a great answer and one that indicates why there is concern by those taking a vaccination that was truly developed quickly.

I am not debating or disputing you, your work, or your opinion or the value & purpose of vaccines in general. I am aware why vaccines should be taken as a moral and responsible act to help society. However the truth of the matter, for instance with a flu vaccine, it is generally taken for personal health concerns. Does a parent want their child want to get small pox or polio? No, of course not, thus the vaccine. When a student goes to college, they must be vaccinated for meningitis because nobody in their right mind wants meningitis. But of course, then you are also contributing to society. I’m sure you keep current, you certainly know of the back and forth regarding “anti-vaccine parents” not wanting to run the risk of autism for their kids.

Today’s society is somewhat less than altruistic, there is a personal risk vs. reward attitude. For instance mask wearing, a person would argue why should I be burdened with wearing a mask if all I am going to do is get something similar to the flu? Clearly that individual has little interest in helping others and limit the spread of Covid.

Now this same group of individuals are not asked to do something as simple and non-invasive as wearing a mask. You are asking them to inject themselves with something that has not been studied and researched for as long as other vaccines. What IF they can get sick because of the vaccine; I think it’s fair to ask what the chances are & to what severity. Information that you’ve already stated that you don’t know (that is not intended as a criticism, you simply don’t know).

Regarding the severity in different age groups, I am stating hospitalization and death rates provided by the CDC and how they steadily decrease as the ages get younger and younger.

Tell me, what will happen in the public schools if enough parents refuse to vaccinate their kids?

Simply stated, you think getting people to wear a mask was and STILL is difficult - good luck with vaccines, just my opinion.

I’m just making an observation, not debating with you. You’ve already answered my question and It was appreciated.

Edit: this is a heated topic. I am NOT arguing or debating you or anyone here. I know how contemptuous things get and DON’T want that! These are just my observations.

[kelkel]

Didn't think you were attacking anyone at all. I do think that those you refer to are tired of the flip flopping being offerred by the top scientists and then the politicians with their do what i say not what i do actions that are so self-evident lately.

When it comes to images of unmased people just as many can be found of protesters / rioters / activists not wearing masks as well. But, being that 90% of the media has a left leaning bias they simply don't get the air time in the same manner, imho. But, hopefully the meds get cleared asap and people get innoculated and it begins a positive path forward.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Didn't think you were attacking anyone at all. I do think that those you refer to are tired of the flip flopping being offerred by the top scientists and then the politicians with their do what i say not what i do actions that are so self-evident lately.

When it comes to images of unmased people just as many can be found of protesters / rioters / activists not wearing masks as well. But, being that 90% of the media has a left leaning bias they simply don't get the air time in the same manner, imho. But, hopefully the meds get cleared asap and people get innoculated and it begins a positive path forward.

That photo was from the GA Senate rally this past Saturday...
It is not cherry picked.

As far as rioters, lock 'em up.
We can agree on that.

[kelkel]

That photo was from the GA Senate rally this past Saturday...
It is not cherry picked.

As far as rioters, lock 'em up.
We can agree on that.

Twas not inferring it was cherry picked. Tons of pics like that out there. I can easily see both sides of the controversy.

[almostgone]

I'm definitely up for taking the vaccine when available. I know some people are leery of it, but at my age the damage is done anyway. I'd make a good crash test....dummy/victim.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I don't get that feeling from what I see and read. I personally don't like wearing masks and I doubt anyone really does. But I think most all see the point of it. What upsets people, imho, is the disparate treatment via state and local government edict. Closing small stores while allowing big box retailers to stay open and increase profits exponentionally.

Arresting a restaurant/bar owner in NY for disregarding a closure notice while literally 1.5 blocks away the same type businesses are allowed to be open. Not to mention all the dumb ass politicians breaking their own rules and getting caught.....

I'm definitely up for taking the vaccine when available. I know some people are leery of it, but at my age the damage is done anyway. I'd make a good crash test....dummy/victim.

My dog gets all her shots.
I do too.

If it is good enough for my dog it is good enough for me.

Being a "healthy" 50yr old I imagine my date with the vaccine won't be until June or later...

[David LoPan]

I have painfully taken measures to make sure that I don't read or hear any news since this past summer. My grandmother always told me that a person that does not read is smarter than someone that only reads the news. With that in mind, my stance is coming from my knowledge of science and how a virus is spread. If masks, like a bandana, worked so well then why didn't it help with the Spanish Flu? Why not only wear surgical masks when working with other viruses like Ebola? It's simple, masks don't work on fighting a virus. A large study was done, which has been removed from NIH and other sites now showing that masks don't work fighting the flu (airborne viruses) with hospital workers.

Mask and gloves do not replace the human's natural immune system. I personally feel that most people should not listen to government "experts" but should follow ALL the science, not the cherry-picked sections. People die every year. We are all going to die of something. Get out and live your life and don't depend on any government to save you. And if our constitution clearly lays out what the role of the government is and taking away the liberties of citizens is not one of them.

My thoughts on the virus are like any virus, live a healthy lifestyle, eat correctly, be physically active, and have good personal hygiene should be all you need. And if you are sick, stay at home and don't be a dick. And if you get sick, go see a doctor as soon as possible.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

With that in mind, my stance is coming from my knowledge of science and how a virus is spread. If masks, like a bandana, worked so well then why didn't it help with the Spanish Flu? It did help. Why not only wear surgical masks when working with other viruses like Ebola? Ebola is not an airborne disease. It's simple, masks don't work on fighting a virus. A large study was done, which has been removed from NIH and other sites now showing that masks don't work fighting the flu (airborne viruses) with hospital workers.

Mask and gloves do not replace the human's natural immune system. I personally feel that most people should not listen to government "experts" but should follow ALL the science, not the cherry-picked sections.

So why is the vast majority of the world using masks to combat this virus?

"And if you are sick, stay at home and don't be a dick."

I guess you don't believe in asymptomatic spread...

[David LoPan]

So why is the vast majority of the world using masks to combat this virus?

"And if you are sick, stay at home and don't be a dick."

I guess you don't believe in asymptomatic spread...

IMO the vast majority of the world population drank the Koolaid about the propaganda about wearing a mask. The health IQ of the US is low as it is, and it is high compared to the rest of the world.

[tarmyg]

IMO the vast majority of the world population drank the Koolaid about the propaganda about wearing a mask. The health IQ of the US is low as it is, and it is high compared to the rest of the world.

Your logic is flawed and wearing a mask helps to not spread the virus. That is not an opinion that is a fact! You are welcome to post any actual peer-reviewed content that proves your point and I will, with genuine interest, read it. To think that COVID-19 is somehow a "special" virus that escapes masks is not true. Anything that exits the mouth or nose is transmitted around and can, more or less, be intercepted, alternatively filtered.

[David LoPan]

Your logic is flawed and wearing a mask helps to not spread the virus. That is not an opinion that is a fact! You are welcome to post any actual peer-reviewed content that proves your point and I will, with genuine interest, read it. To think that COVID-19 is somehow a "special" virus that escapes masks is not true. Anything that exits the mouth or nose is transmitted around and can, more or less, be intercepted, alternatively filtered.

You hit the nail on the head. MY OPINION! I see a rush to put out studies that show how the mask "stops the spread of COVID 19", so there is bias IMO on all these studies. Medical personal used to use universal precautions but in 1996, the CDC expanded the concept and changed the term to standard precautions, which integrated and expanded the elements of universal precautions to include contact with all body fluids (except sweat), regardless of whether blood is present. But before COVID 19 you didn't hear anyone running around telling people to wear a mask for the SARS or MERS (COVID), or even for the flu (H1N1). Not even if you were going to visit anyone in a nursing home or a hospital.

I never said that COVID 19 was a special virus. IMO, it has been blown way out of proportion by the media and the politicians. Next time you go to the grocery store or gas station look around at all the masks on the ground and tell me that is not a biohazard. There is also a lot of unintended consequences from mandating people to wear PPE and not educating them on the proper disposal of PPE.

So my stance, although it is not popular, is you do you and I do me. I wear a mask when I have to but that is it. I hate them, I cant understand what people are saying while wearing a mask, and I think they provide more of a placebo effect for the masses. But I also have stated, I have the antibodies for COVID so I have had it. This leads to an interesting segway, now we have people that have recovered from the virus or getting immunized from it. Do you still want everyone wearing a mask for the rest of your life or when will it be safe to not wear a mask anymore?

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedici...l.pmed.0020124

[tarmyg]

My thoughts on the virus are like any virus, live a healthy lifestyle, eat correctly, be physically active, and have good personal hygiene should be all you need. And if you are sick, stay at home and don't be a dick. And if you get sick, go see a doctor as soon as possible.

You think you’ll avoid Polio with that advice?

[David LoPan]

You think you’ll avoid Polio with that advice?

I don't think when Polio was an issue in the US we wore masks. But from what I remember about Polio, you have only spread that virus in the first 7-10 days after symptoms. So if you were symptomatic, don't be a Dick and stay home until you see a doctor. But there is a vaccine coming out for covid, and everyone I talked to about it is not going to get it. Including my 80-year-old mother and father.

I am not an anti-vaccine person. I have already received my Flu shot and get at least one every year. But I have gotten the flu during a year I got the flu shot. Everyone I personally have talked to about the mask and the Covid all has not gotten a flu shot in the past several years. Less than 50% of the US gets this shot and we know the flu kills people.

In a few years, people will still be getting covid and/or the flu and not getting the vaccine. People will be more complacent with the risk of covid just like the flu and not get a shot.

[David LoPan]

I love this forum! One of the few places where people can have a different opinion and disagree without being disagreeable. I do truly hope that everyone is in good health.

[wango]

DLP, regarding the 1918 flu, it happened during World War 1. Troops tightly confined in barracks at training. Soldiers transferring to different training facilities and spreading it to those communities. Then overseas, once again spreading it to various regions. It’s a small miracle more didn’t die. We learned our lesson with that, which is why nobody traveled or flew during Thanksgiving and will do the same for Christmas.

Just a nice, simply written article on efficacy vs. efficiency of vaccine trials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/h...effective.html

[tarmyg]

This is a great read to better understand how things are moving so quickly on the vaccine front for which we should all be thankful!

You may be surprised to learn that of the trio of long-awaited coronavirus vaccines, the most promising, Moderna’s mRNA-1273, which reported a 94.5 percent efficacy rate on November 16, had been designed by January 13. This was just two days after the genetic sequence had been made public in an act of scientific and humanitarian generosity that resulted in China’s Yong-Zhen Zhang’s being temporarily forced out of his lab. In Massachusetts, the Moderna vaccine design took all of one weekend. It was completed before China had even acknowledged that the disease could be transmitted from human to human, more than a week before the first confirmed coronavirus case in the United States. By the time the first American death was announced a month later, the vaccine had already been manufactured and shipped to the National Institutes of Health for the beginning of its Phase I clinical trial. This is — as the country and the world are rightly celebrating — the fastest timeline of development in the history of vaccines. It also means that for the entire span of the pandemic in this country, which has already killed more than 250,000 Americans, we had the tools we needed to prevent it.

We Had the Vaccine the Whole Time

[David LoPan]

I have friends my age that live all over the world and every one of them has a different feeling about it. I can't write or say anything that is going to change your mind. I don't want to debate different virus or whatever, I am just a firm believer in personal liberty and not being told to wear a mask. IMO they don't work, especially as a one size fits all fix. People don't wear or use them correctly from what I have seen. On 10/15/20 the CDC stated: "85% of COVID-19 patients report ‘always’ or ‘often’ wearing masks". IMO will get covid at some point, it's all about the individual's immune system's ability to handle it.

But think about this. Not all medical people can agree on treatments due to the politics of COVID. If you have a different view than what the government tells you to have then you are a horrible person or you get removed from social media or whatever they do on those sites. The one thing that every medical professional agrees on is obesity. Covid and obesity is the real conversation and not one is telling people to eat right and lose weight so if you do get Covid you have a better chance to live.

[Test Monsterone]

I have friends my age that live all over the world and every one of them has a different feeling about it. I can't write or say anything that is going to change your mind. I don't want to debate different virus or whatever, I am just a firm believer in personal liberty and not being told to wear a mask. IMO they don't work, especially as a one size fits all fix. People don't wear or use them correctly from what I have seen. On 10/15/20 the CDC stated: "85% of COVID-19 patients report ‘always’ or ‘often’ wearing masks". IMO will get covid at some point, it's all about the individual's immune system's ability to handle it.

But think about this. Not all medical people can agree on treatments due to the politics of COVID. If you have a different view than what the government tells you to have then you are a horrible person or you get removed from social media or whatever they do on those sites. The one thing that every medical professional agrees on is obesity. Covid and obesity is the real conversation and not one is telling people to eat right and lose weight so if you do get Covid you have a better chance to live.

I mean everyone can do what they want, but I’m pretty sure almost everyone in the medical community agrees that masks help slow down the spread of viruses. They exist for a reason. Not everyone has to contract the virus if we get vaccines. I agree that the majority of the people infected that have passed from it have had pre-existing conditions, but still there have been some healthy people that have died as well. Part of the fear with this virus is that nobody knows how it’s going to affect them.

I’m glad I don’t have to be the one making up rules because there’s no way to make everyone happy. I just wear my mask when I’m in a store and keep to myself mostly. I don’t feel that this invades my personal freedom in any way, it’s just a common courtesy to protect our fellow people who might not be as safe as we are. I see little old ladies shoppin on alone at the grocery store and imagine how they must feel knowing they put themselves in danger doing regular shit. It has to suck. The mask on my face sucks but dying (even if it’s not me) sucks more.

[< <Samson> >]

Well, I have way too much free time on my hands apparently

Vaccine < LoL, fuck that

Never had a flu vaccine either & have never tested positive when I got sick


This is why I made myself live the way that I have this year - no gym, no school for my son, we hardly ever go out - for now

I don’t know or care what political POS is up to what - but, I trust my home brew guy more than the “government” now

I have seen what effects this “virus” has on us up close - numerous times. . . So, I still choose to live the way that I do

I was talking to my DOT MD yesterday. He’s pro vaccine, but agrees on everything else I say - so, whatever

I’m still alive - for now

First thing I see when I get off the page - fuck all this, I’ll stick to my bathtub brew guy’s vaccine 1st

https://www.yahoo.com/news/australia...072111768.html

[Cuz]

Well, I have way too much free time on my hands apparently

Vaccine < LoL, fuck that

Never had a flu vaccine either & have never tested positive when I got sick


This is why I made myself live the way that I have this year - no gym, no school for my son, we hardly ever go out - for now

I don’t know or care what political POS is up to what - but, I trust my home brew guy more than the “government” now

I have seen what effects this “virus” has on us up close - numerous times. . . So, I still choose to live the way that I do

I was talking to my DOT MD yesterday. He’s pro vaccine, but agrees on everything else I say - so, whatever

I’m still alive - for now

First thing I see when I get off the page - fuck all this, I’ll stick to my bathtub brew guy’s vaccine 1st

https://www.yahoo.com/news/australia...072111768.html

Im liking the new Avi ehhehe

[< <Samson> >]

Im liking the new Avi ehhehe

Right,

Thought I’d speed a little holiday spirit

Vaccine

To each is own - I’ll stick to my eod home brew slams of sauce

That’s fine & all - I just don’t know when I’ll be mentally ready for my son to receive this make believe garbage - since they administer shit at school now - they did a flu shot without our knowledge last time

Gawd wtf happened to this country - it sure seems so different than how I first remember it from almost 30 years ago

[wango]

Coughing gorillas at the San Diego zoo are Covid positive.

Gorilla’s blame Charger and his gym for lax mask wearing rules . . . . .

[Hughinn]

Before the election there was an idea that on November 4th Covid would be out of the news...
The idea was that the Democrats were just using Covid as a political ploy.
I won't deny that the Democrats mentioned Covid at every oppotunity to influence voters.

However... please note...
We are post election now and guess what...
Many Republican governors have changed their minds and now are mandating masks...

Covid-19 Live Updates: Republican Governors Reverse Course and Issue Mask Mandates
Iowa will require residents to wear masks indoors starting Tuesday, as leaders who had resisted limits are confronted by a growing number of coronavirus cases. California issued tough new restrictions after its number of cases doubled in ten days.

After holding out, Republican governors reverse course and issue mask mandates.

President-elect Joseph R. Biden warned on Monday that “more people may die” from the coronavirus if President Trump does not agree to coordinate planning for the mass distribution of a vaccine when it becomes available.

Mr. Biden also issued a simple plea. Holding up a paper medical mask, he asked: “Does anybody understand why a governor would turn this into a political statement?”

In the United States, the wearing of a mask has been caught up in the swirl of the nation’s toxic political divide long after the scientific community reached a consensus that they can play a dramatic role in slowing the spread of the virus and saving lives.

For months, Republican governors resisted calls for mask mandates. But as they have watched hospitals in their states stretched to the breaking point in recent weeks — driving home the reality of the dangers posed by a virus allowed to spread unchecked — that is starting to change.

In Utah last week, Gary Herbert, the Republican governor, issued a mask mandate “until further notice” as hospitals across the state were nearing or at full capacity.

Gov. Doug Burgum of North Dakota ordered residents of the state on Friday to wear masks indoors and outdoors if they could not socially distance. North Dakota has the country’s highest rates of new daily cases and deaths per person, according to a New York Times database.

In West Virginia, Gov. Jim Justice ordered on Saturday that residents must wear masks in indoor public settings.

Then on Monday evening, Kim Reynolds, the governor of Iowa, struck a somber tone as she announced that, starting Tuesday, Iowans would need to wear masks while indoors if they are unable to maintain social distance.

“There aren’t enough sheriffs in Iowa’s 99 counties to shut down every noncompliant bar,” she said. “If Iowans don’t buy into this, we lose,” she said, warning that schools and businesses could be closed.

Ms. Reynolds had flouted infectious disease experts who say masks are one of the most effective tools to control the spread of the virus. In September, she issued guidance that told students, teachers and workers that they did not have to quarantine after being in close contact with someone who was infected as long as both were wearing masks.

The rates of new daily cases and hospitalizations have roughly doubled in Iowa over the past two weeks.

Gov. Mike DeWine of Ohio, who is reportedly considering imposing a curfew on businesses, is expected to hold a news conference on Tuesday to announce plans to combat the spike in cases in his state.

But even before Mr. DeWine made any announcement, Mr. Trump issued a warning on Twitter, suggesting that he might support a primary challenger against the Republican governor.

“Who will be running for Governor of the Great State of Ohio? Will be hotly contested!” Mr. Trump wrote.

Mr. Biden offered praise for the Republican leaders, saying he had “enormous respect” for their actions.

“It’s about being patriotic,” he said. “There is nothing macho about not wearing a mask.”

One of the remaining holdouts is South Dakota, which has the country’s second-worst rates of new daily cases and deaths per person.

Its Republican governor, Kristi Noem, said at a rally for President Trump last month that her refusal to issue restrictions made South Dakotans “happy because they are free.” She has yet to issue any restrictions.

— Bryan Pietsch and Marc Santora

So please people...

Just realize that sometimes when you think that the other political party is merely using you for political purposes...
The truth is that you were being played by your own political party...

Covid didn't disappear... Some politicians were trying to make it seem insignificant simply for political gain.
Their quest for power was more important than your health.

Be well and stay safe...


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11...19-coronavirus

Wasn't joe supposed to stop covid?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw....who/a-53161220

Or was a politician lying again? Everyone is wearing masks already.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I think you will find that most here are tired of all the political banter.

[Hughinn]

I think you will find that most here are tired of all the political banter.

If you include yourself in that "most" category, then I'd suggest looking elsewhere than the "in the news" threads that include political news.

I'm not trying to provoke or offend you dd.

Just sayin

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I, like many, simply click on the "What's New?" tab.

I am only try to point out that the political discussions often turn into shit shows.

This is a steroid forum. There are members who feel like all the political talk drives others away.
We like to consider ourselves a brotherhood of iron if you will.
Politics (and religion) can often times weaken the brotherhood.

Be well...