Question For Marcus

[scorgasm]

I just read your post about moderate users keeping gains, so I was just curious. Lets say a 26 yr old who was 6 foot 190 12% bf, this person would probably have a natural max somewhere in the 220 range. so lets say they were to do 1 cycle, with proper pct and proper post cycle diet and training, and they gained 30 pounds, would this person be able to permanently stay at about 215 without doin another cycle? Anyone else who wants to chime in feel free. thanks

[PK-V]

I just read your post about moderate users keeping gains, so I was just curious. Lets say a 26 yr old who was 6 foot 190 12% bf, this person would probably have a natural max somewhere in the 220 range. so lets say they were to do 1 cycle, with proper pct and proper post cycle diet and training, and they gained 30 pounds, would this person be able to permanently stay at about 215 without doin another cycle? Anyone else who wants to chime in feel free. thanks

yes

as long as you up the caloric intake to support the new muscle your body should find a new happy homeostasis within it's natural limit

[Little Herc]

yes

as long as you up the caloric intake to support the new muscle your body should find a new happy homeostasis within it's natural limit

YOUR NOT MARCUS! IMPOSTOR!

[dec11]

yes

as long as you up the caloric intake to support the new muscle your body should find a new happy homeostasis within it's natural limit

inaccurate, ive neva kept all gained on a cycle, and my diet is always in check

[scorgasm]

inaccurate, ive neva kept all gained on a cycle, and my diet is always in check

I understand that you're never gonna be as big off as you are while you're on, but you have made some permanent gains? say at least 50 % of muscle gained from a cyle?

[dec11]

I understand that you're never gonna be as big off as you are while you're on, but you have made some permanent gains? say at least 50 % of muscle gained from a cyle?

the honest truth is very little is kept longterm post cycle

[mg1228]

the honest truth is very little is kept longterm post cycle

i hear this alot----why even cycle?

[scorgasm]

Okay so if it;s possible to reach and maintain close to your natural max from a cycle, why do so many people recommend reaching ur max naturally first?

[Little Herc]

i doubt anyone waits on there natural limit and if they do then I would assume they have to stay on a cruise dosage You do need a couple years training and lots of diet and training knowledge in or your just wasteing your money imho. Not to mention the fact your going to wreck your tendons and legiments without some heavy training under your belt.

[Little Herc]

You can keep 1/2 your muscle gains easily. If your cycleing something like dbol and test e your going to lose alot of weight at the end but its going to be mostly water if your diet is in check.

[AnonEagle]

yes you should be able to keep pretty much all the gains you made if you keep working hard, do your PCT right, keep your diet in check, etc..
hope you weren't hoping to gain 30lbs of muscle from your first cycle though..make sure you set yourself realistic goals!

["DIRTY D" SANCHEZ]

yes you should be able to keep pretty much all the gains you made if you keep working hard, do your pct right, keep your diet in check, etc..
Hope you weren't hoping to gain 30lbs of muscle from your first cycle though..make sure you set yourself realistic goals!

i would like to know where you got this info from please? In fact, i gained just at 28lbs on my first cycle and it was a short/burst cycle of only 5 weeks... So i gained 30lbs almost in just over a month, and afterwards i only kept about 15lbs... Now i will say that my pct wasn't up to par, but my diet was and i still trained hard after cycle. So i would like to know how to keep 25 out of 30 lbs on a cycle... I haven't heard of it on here that i can remember?

Also, i have read and from using personally, i would say that out of any cycle... The first is your best chance at gaining 30lbs and keeping as much as possible.

Pls post your source of info if this is a fact. Sorry if i am mistaken, just speaking from personal and most frequently posted results from cycles.

Thanks,

"dirty d"

[AnonEagle]

i would like to know where you got this info from please? In fact, i gained just at 28lbs on my first cycle and it was a short/burst cycle of only 5 weeks... So i gained 30lbs almost in just over a month, and afterwards i only kept about 15lbs... Now i will say that my pct wasn't up to par, but my diet was and i still trained hard after cycle. So i would like to know how to keep 25 out of 30 lbs on a cycle... I haven't heard of it on here that i can remember?

Also, i have read and from using personally, i would say that out of any cycle... The first is your best chance at gaining 30lbs and keeping as much as possible.

Pls post your source of info if this is a fact. Sorry if i am mistaken, just speaking from personal and most frequently posted results from cycles.

Thanks,

"dirty d"

well you obviously didn't gain 30lbs of muscle in 5 weeks. would like to hear what your cycle was that put on even 30lbs of anything in 5 weeks though, those are great results!

I was only speaking about keeping the quality lean muscle gains.. it's obvious that you're going to lose a lot water weight from bloat with certain compounds. sorry should have been more specific

[scorgasm]

Yeah I'm not sure what to expect in terms of size gains, i just heard your first cycle is usually your best, assuming you do everything right, I've only started doing heavy research recently, hoping to soak up as much knowledge as possible before making a final decision.

[AnonEagle]

Yeah I'm not sure what to expect in terms of size gains, i just heard your first cycle is usually your best, assuming you do everything right, I've only started doing heavy research recently, hoping to soak up as much knowledge as possible before making a final decision.

good to hear man

[KimboHalfSlice]

I think the weighing scales is not a good indicator of how well you're doing.

On my first cycle, taking Sustanon on its own, I gained 28 pounds.

...but it wasn't 28 pounds of muscle! Everyone was telling me was face was pudgy, and my abs were starting to disappear! I think it was mostly water!

Now I'm on my second cycle, and I haven't gained nearly as much weight... but I'm happy about it because I'm gaining muscle without gaining so much fat, and I don't have much water retention at all.

One kilogram of muscle has a volume of about 943 ml (it's just 6% short of an entire litre). The point I want to make is that 1 kg of muscle is BIG! Next time you go buy some meat, just look at how big 1kg of beef steak is, it's a lot of muscle!

If I gain 10 pounds of actual muscle on this cycle I'll be delighted, it will make a massive difference to how I look.

[marcus300]

You would be better off reaching your natural weight limit via hard training and diet, this would build great foundation and secure your muscle mass, if your daily calories are adjusted to support your new found muscle you wont have a problem in maintaining your weight and size naturally.

If your only looking at doing one cycle to get to your natural weight limit and never doing a cycle again, I wouldn't advice you to do it, why risk complication when you can get to this weight limit easily by hardwork and diet, some people will have problems with their ability to recover and some even after their first cycle may experience issues with their natural testosterone, why would anyone risk that when they are only going to do one cycle and they can get to this weight limit natural and have no issues with recovery.

Keeping gains form AAS would also depend on how much muscle your trying to maintain over your natural limit, if its only a few lbs you will be able to support this by hard training and diet but you have to remember many people think they are lossing muscle tissue when off cycle but most of the weight loss is water weight and alot is to do with poor training and inadequate diets not supporting the new found muscle.

[scorgasm]

some people will have problems with their ability to recover and some even after their first cycle may experience issues with their natural testosterone.

So are you saying theres still a risk of permanently decreasing natural test levels, even with one cycle done properly?

[AnonEagle]

So are you saying theres still a risk of permanently decreasing natural test levels, even with one cycle done properly?

yes.

[KimboHalfSlice]

So are you saying theres still a risk of permanently decreasing natural test levels, even with one cycle done properly?

There is risk involved with everything you do in life. Sometimes the risk is so small that you should ignore it (otherwise you'd never get anything done in life!). Sometimes the risk is so great you'd be stupid to go ahead with things.

Eat a piece of chicken and there's a chance you'll get salmonella poisoning.

Walk across the road and there's a chance you'll get hit by a speeding car.

Go running and there's a chance you'll injure your knee.

Before I embark on something, I like to see statistics. From the statistics, I can make a risk assessment, and from that I can decide whether I want to go through with it or not. Here's some examples of statistics:

If a woman is taking birth control pills properly, the chances of her becoming pregnant are 0.3%

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

If you do the following two things:
1) Take hCG while on cycle
2) Take Clomiphene and Tamoxifen when you finish your cycle

then I reckon you'd find it quite DIFFICULT to damage up your own natural Testosterone production (in much the same way it would be quite difficult to get pregnant if you're taking birth control pills every day).

The bodybuilders who have problems with low Testosterone after having taken steroids fall into two categories:

1) The really really really unlucky people who were in the 1% group of people who don't regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of taking steroids. Really it's just plain bad luck.

2) The people who took a lot of steroids for a long time, and who weren't taking hCG or doing Post Cycle Therapy with Clomiphene and Tamoxifen.

In my own opinion: If you do things properly, i.e. if you take hCG on cycle, and if you do PCT afterwards, then the chances of damaging your own natural Testosterone production are so low that they can safely be ignored.

[Jbert22]

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.





where did you get those numbers? i disagree

[KimboHalfSlice]

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

Go here:

http://www.steroid.com/side.php

And look at "Inhibition of Natural Hormones". Here's an excerpt:

The following is a table showing the various hormonal levels of former steroid users who haven´t used them for a year:

TABLE GOES HERE

What we see in this chart is not surprising to anyone who is actually familiar with steroids, and not with media-hype. In people studied who haven' t used steroids for a year, ALL of their measured hormones (testosterone, estrogen) were within the NORMAL RANGE! Clearly, the effects that steroids have on your hormones are reversible and the horror stories we've all read in the media about people who never regained normal hormonal function after one cycle are greatly exaggerated. I think anyone who is familiar with "After School Specials" about steroids will be very surprised at learning this fact. As for "The Aaron Henry Story" on HBO, I can't imagine how he has suffered side effects well into his 40's when the steroid users in this study were totally fine after one year, and in some cases used more than he did!

Right now I'm searching the internet looking for that study that said 99%. I'll post back here when I find it.

[marcus300]

There is risk involved with everything you do in life. Sometimes the risk is so small that you should ignore it (otherwise you'd never get anything done in life!). Sometimes the risk is so great you'd be stupid to go ahead with things.

Eat a piece of chicken and there's a chance you'll get salmonella poisoning.

Walk across the road and there's a chance you'll get hit by a speeding car.

Go running and there's a chance you'll injure your knee.

Before I embark on something, I like to see statistics. From the statistics, I can make a risk assessment, and from that I can decide whether I want to go through with it or not. Here's some examples of statistics:

If a woman is taking birth control pills properly, the chances of her becoming pregnant are 0.3%

99% of men regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of stopping taking steroids.

If you do the following two things:
1) Take hCG while on cycle
2) Take Clomiphene and Tamoxifen when you finish your cycle

then I reckon you'd find it quite DIFFICULT to damage up your own natural Testosterone production (in much the same way it would be quite difficult to get pregnant if you're taking birth control pills every day).

The bodybuilders who have problems with low Testosterone after having taken steroids fall into two categories:

1) The really really really unlucky people who were in the 1% group of people who don't regain natural Testosterone levels within 6 months of taking steroids. Really it's just plain bad luck.

2) The people who took a lot of steroids for a long time, and who weren't taking hCG or doing Post Cycle Therapy with Clomiphene and Tamoxifen.

In my own opinion: If you do things properly, i.e. if you take hCG on cycle, and if you do PCT afterwards, then the chances of damaging your own natural Testosterone production are so low that they can safely be ignored.

I disagree and from what ive seen over the years its the complete opersite to what you have stated.

[PT]

I just read your post about moderate users keeping gains, so I was just curious. Lets say a 26 yr old who was 6 foot 190 12% bf, this person would probably have a natural max somewhere in the 220 range. so lets say they were to do 1 cycle, with proper pct and proper post cycle diet and training, and they gained 30 pounds, would this person be able to permanently stay at about 215 without doin another cycle? Anyone else who wants to chime in feel free. thanks

everyone is different and has different metabolisms so you cant say everyone who is 6' tall has a natural max 0f 220lbs. metabolisim and genetics play a role here

[BJJ]

You would be better off reaching your natural weight limit via hard training and diet, this would build great foundation and secure your muscle mass, if your daily calories are adjusted to support your new found muscle you wont have a problem in maintaining your weight and size naturally.

If your only looking at doing one cycle to get to your natural weight limit and never doing a cycle again, I wouldn't advice you to do it, why risk complication when you can get to this weight limit easily by hardwork and diet, some people will have problems with their ability to recover and some even after their first cycle may experience issues with their natural testosterone, why would anyone risk that when they are only going to do one cycle and they can get to this weight limit natural and have no issues with recovery.

Keeping gains form AAS would also depend on how much muscle your trying to maintain over your natural limit, if its only a few lbs you will be able to support this by hard training and diet but you have to remember many people think they are lossing muscle tissue when off cycle but most of the weight loss is water weight and alot is to do with poor training and inadequate diets not supporting the new found muscle.

everyone is different and has different metabolisms so you cant say everyone who is 6' tall has a natural max 0f 220lbs. metabolisim and genetics play a role here

...x2

[scorgasm]

ok so basically once you cycle theres no going back? like if you decide to "cross the line" then it should be more of a repeated long term thing?

[FranciscoG]

ok so basically once you cycle theres no going back? like if you decide to "cross the line" then it should be more of a repeated long term thing?

Specially when you get older. No joke. I would never want to be clean and aas free for life.

[marcus300]

ok so basically once you cycle theres no going back? like if you decide to "cross the line" then it should be more of a repeated long term thing?

Many guys cycle and recover but of course there are some what never seem to regain their natural testosterone to what it was when it was before the cycle. Normally the younger you are the better recovery but there is always exceptions.

Specially when you get older. No joke. I would never want to be clean and aas free for life.

Thats very true, the older you get its really hard to even function without AAS

[FranciscoG]

Many guys cycle and recover but of course there are some what never seem to regain their natural testosterone to what it was when it was before the cycle. Normally the younger you are the better recovery but there is always exceptions.



Thats very true, the older you get its really hard to even function without AAS

Beat me by 1 min. Fast today Marcus...lol

[marcus300]

Where do I start?

Well 40 is not the new 18.

At 40+ when you bust your ass and lift and diet and do everything right you are just waisting away. No pun or joke intended. You will not regenerate. It just does not happen.

From the skin on your face to the the hair on your head peptides like hGH help.

Your sex drive well that one everyone knows about.

Person view is the peak time of your life. Marcus can elaborate from his point of view on this one.

I feel that with use of aas/hGH in place of peaking in your late 28s you actually peak in your 40s. Hence the reason why so many bodybuilders and power lifters are 35+... It does have a lot to do with life style also.

It was rather easy to build muscle in my 20's I must admit, but I was using alot of gear more or less throughout this period, when I hit my 30's my body change again and matured and went very thick set and tight, in my 40's i havent cycled as of yet but i am very close to going back on, I am a machine when it comes to eating/diets/training and even with what I put myself through I find it very difficult to support my mass and size without any gear, every year i tend to lose more and more, oh and the aches and pains from heavy lifting is so depressing i truely ache from head to toe without gear...I think its time for a change

Beat me by 1 min. Fast today Marcus...lol

I have to be with young ones around like you

[dec11]

ok so basically once you cycle theres no going back? like if you decide to "cross the line" then it should be more of a repeated long term thing?

pretty much, i found recovery gettin worse, weights gettin tougher etc so said sod it, cruise/trt time.

[scorgasm]

So after years have using aas have you had any adverse health effects?

[FranciscoG]

So after years have using aas have you had any adverse health effects?

Sure, one cycle I had ED cause I used tren ace and deca with little to no test.

From tren ace I got emotional on a few cycles.

The term pct did not exist when I did my first cycle. I crashed post first cycle.

[marcus300]

So after years have using aas have you had any adverse health effects?

I've had a few complaints such as blood pressure and hairloss ect but I would say the most adverse ones would be when I had Polycythemia in which I was hospitalised and had to have a venus section because my RBC's were at a very dangerous level, I feel this was my own fault though because I was having regular bloodwork done but I decided that I didn't need it for a few months and I was cycling heavy which resulted in my having polycythemia, words of wisdom get regular blood work done if your cycling it can safe your life.

I am also on HRT for life which is a direct result of using AAS which I feel is the most adverse side effect I've had, I went through hell everyday when I had low testosterone, the demons were very hard to cope with and with all the other sides effects of low Test it was unbearable

[FranciscoG]

I am also on HRT for life which is a direct result of using AAS which I feel is the most adverse side effect I've had, I went through hell everyday when I had low testosterone, the demons were very hard to cope with and with all the other sides effects of low Test it was unbearable

Me right now. I been off for 8 weeks tomorrow. I am supposed to get back on wed. My test levels are low. I was diving for 4 hours on sat. I came home sat night and was in bed at 8 pm. Life without testosterone and life with testosterone are two different things.

[marcus300]

Me right now. I been off for 8 weeks tomorrow. I am supposed to get back on wed. My test levels are low. I was diving for 4 hours on sat. I came home sat night and was in bed at 8 pm. Life without testosterone and life with testosterone are two different things.

How old are you?
What are your natural levels?
When do you think you will swap that weak HCG in for HRT then?

[FranciscoG]

How old are you?
What are your natural levels?
When do you think you will swap that weak HCG in for HRT then?

Gonna be 40 pretty soon.

Natural levels...lol When I was 35 I did a spot on pct and stayed off 5 months came back 314. If there is a high from aas I had it when I got back on after that failure. lol

I get off and use hCG just for myostatin. Hell I know it would feel better if I kept taking 200mgs a week but you know...

[stevey_6t9]

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

[IggySupra]

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

x2?.

[marcus300]

how long have your cycled and what age did you start marcus300?

I started training when I was 18yrs old
I started cycling around 23yrs old
I am 42yrs old now