Sachets....

[HeLLBoy3045]

hey, i been researching about sachets and really haven't found the answers im looking for. How do u withdraw solution from Sachets? I heard that there are only 5ml sachets out there any other kind that are 3ml are fraud? I am planning on ordering 3ml sachets of deca and my source has always come through for me for the past year and half, there has never been any problems.
Also they sachets say they contain 3ml 200mg/ml. Now does this mean the sachet alone contains 600mg total of deca or am i miss reading it and all 3ml contain 200mgs of deca. Im a little confused with this because i am pending on to just purchase the bottle instead of the sachets.
Thanks alot and i really need the help as you can see.
Mike

[abstrack]

3ml in the sachet-the strength is 200mg/ml so you have 600mg per sachet.

[HeLLBoy3045]

alrite thanx, but how do u withdraw solution from the sachets? I cant see how some one can do that.

[vermin]

With a pin. According to posted test results, the 3ml sachets are bogus.

[Property of Steroid.com]

3ml in the sachet-the strength is 200mg/ml so you have 600mg per sachet.

Underdosed and underfilled. I have an independant third party (admin for Elite Fitness) confirming the results with the Lab who did the tests on the 3ml sachets as we speak.

[frank12391]

1. wash your hands and the sachet with antibacterial and dry with paper towel. 2. swab the sachet
3. Use a 19g pin and 5ml or 10ml syringe to draw the contents. (I use 10ml cause you will get approx 5.5ml from each one).
6. Store it in the syringe. Put a clean pin on the syringe. When injecting, use a new syringe and pin to draw from the storage syringe.

You can store it in a clean sterile vile. I believe less transfers means less chance of contamination.

[duramaxedge]

anthony roberts posted a review on sachets from one of the repitutible sachets manufactures. he had said that he just tore the corners and used a pin to withdraw the oil ,he also notated that he had never had an issue with not having enuff oil (as the volume notated) I will try to find that review/link

[abstrack]

Underdosed and underfilled. I have an independant third party (admin for Elite Fitness) confirming the results with the Lab who did the tests on the 3ml sachets as we speak.

I have no idea why you are quoting me. May be I missed understood his question, but I thought he was asking the total mg in each sachet. May be I am not understanding his question.


I dont know what to say? I am glad you have an independant third party who is testing the 3ml sachets???

[evil pepsi]

i wouldnt leave it in a syringe. i would transfer to a sterile vial. chances of contamination are lower, as is the risk of something bumping the plunger and you losing some...

[frank12391]

i wouldnt leave it in a syringe. i would transfer to a sterile vial. chances of contamination are lower, as is the risk of something bumping the plunger and you losing some...

What has bumping the barrel got to do with contamination? You could drop the vile too and loose the lot. 1. barrel 2. vial 3. barrel. 4. body. or 1.barel 2. barel 3. body. More vessells = more chance of contamination

[evil pepsi]

What has bumping the barrel got to do with contamination? You could drop the vile too and loose the lot. 1. barrel 2. vial 3. barrel. 4. body. or 1.barel 2. barel 3. body. More vessells = more chance of contamination

storing in a sterile vial means one batch, so chances of contamination are lower. having five syringes full of gear just lying around means you are more likely to face contamination, but to each his own. if it works for you, go for it.
if you transfer it properly, you will actually use the same amount of pins...

[frank12391]

your wrong because pins are sterile and so are barrells. When opening the wrapping is designed so you don't touch any part of the end of the barrell. Storing the barrels with sterile pins is safe and as sterile as the gear. Take it from a R.N. None of the surfaces have been touched. I can draw 6 barrells full of liquid and have them sitting around waiting for a surgeon in a ward or theater in a kidney dish for an hour It is against standard infection control protocol to then put it back in the vial. We would never store them for later use only because it's possible to swap drugs, steal or deliberatly contaminate. But your not gonna do that are you? Also I hope your swabing your vials each time you draw, before and after as lovely bacteria sits around there and breeds.

[frank12391]

Also multi use vials have air punched in them every time you draw and have you ever heared of ready jects. Guess not. Because you don't know, it's a pre filled syringed used every day and stored in every pharmacy and Organon, the origional producer of DECA DURABOLIN (Nandrolone decanoate) produces them. Theres Hypo kits. I could go on all day.

[djack99587]

that sounds like allot of work

[RUI-Products]

After you get it into the syringe use a .2 filter ( .2 is the standard for sterility )and a 18g pin to deposite the oil into the sealed sterile vial. You can bake it if you like.

[frank12391]

Sealed sterile vial + watman filter = good practice

[AnabolicBoy1981]

After you get it into the syringe use a .2 filter ( .2 is the standard for sterility )and a 18g pin to deposite the oil into the sealed sterile vial. You can bake it if you like.

word!

i filtered mine, then added 1-2%BA. thought bout baking but dont know enough yet bout that.

i always swab my vials before drawing. interesing about the air though. a may stop injecting air to create the "vacuum." im a patient person, so if it takes longer, i dont care. personally out of deca, test and eq, eq is the thickest, and darkest...oh and smelliest. must be that AROMATHERAPY in it,lol. it does smell though

[frank12391]

Some sources say to use the filled syringe and just change the pin but I'm concerned about jacking back the plunger. I get a new syringe and pin and poke the pin inside the syringe then replace with a new one. Eliminates the step of penetrating the rubber on the vial. As long as you swab it each time before and after, it's ok. But you should replace the rubber with new ones from Lion after the vial is finnished before you refill it. You can penetrate the same opening in the rubber where it can't be swabed when it's been used too much. In human grade the air is not a big deal as there is enough BA in the mix but UG lab gear you don't know. Some UG labs use xtra BA. The E.Q has a strong smell.

[vermin]

Lion is correct - you need to filter (though for oil .45um is OK).

Adding BA is not a good idea - there is already a high amount.

"Baking" is meaningless, at least to the home user.

You then, as with all UGL stuff, need to send a sample off to get tested. Once you get the results back, you will have confirmed that you are shootng what you think you are shooting, and at the dose you think you are using.

These are the steps you need to take.

[evil pepsi]

your wrong because pins are sterile and so are barrells. When opening the wrapping is designed so you don't touch any part of the end of the barrell. Storing the barrels with sterile pins is safe and as sterile as the gear. Take it from a R.N. None of the surfaces have been touched. I can draw 6 barrells full of liquid and have them sitting around waiting for a surgeon in a ward or theater in a kidney dish for an hour It is against standard infection control protocol to then put it back in the vial. We would never store them for later use only because it's possible to swap drugs, steal or deliberatly contaminate. But your not gonna do that are you? Also I hope your swabing your vials each time you draw, before and after as lovely bacteria sits around there and breeds.

first off, its not coming in and out of a vial. its going in once, where it will wait in a sterile environment until withdrawn.
second, you are not talking about storing the syringe for a few hours. that changes the game.
third, as an rn, you should know about aseptic procedures, as well as microbiology.
fourth, bacteria grows on your hands, and any surface in which the syringe will come in contact. this means that the average person will inadvertently contaminate the syringe because they will not be familiar with aseptic procedure, and they will touch the syringe, or store it in a non-sterile environment.
fool yourself into believing you can create a sterile environment in which to store loaded syringes...

[G-1000]

Underdosed and underfilled. I have an independant third party (admin for Elite Fitness) confirming the results with the Lab who did the tests on the 3ml sachets as we speak.

were can i find teh lab reports?

[frank12391]

first off, its not coming in and out of a vial. its going in once, where it will wait in a sterile environment until withdrawn.
second, you are not talking about storing the syringe for a few hours. that changes the game.
third, as an rn, you should know about aseptic procedures, as well as microbiology.
fourth, bacteria grows on your hands, and any surface in which the syringe will come in contact. this means that the average person will inadvertently contaminate the syringe because they will not be familiar with aseptic procedure, and they will touch the syringe, or store it in a non-sterile environment.
fool yourself into believing you can create a sterile environment in which to store loaded syringes...

Do you live in a house with junkies? Do you leave syringes lying around without the cap? The only person who touches my stuff is me. The outside of a barrel has just as many microganisms as the outside of a vial. So where are you going with this?

[frank12391]

you must have misunderstood, I was talking about jacking back once you've inserted the pin in your muscle

[frank12391]

Oh and don't fool yourself into believing you can create a sterile envioment in which to store your viles unless you permantly leave it in the autoclave...???????????
where are you going with this????

[evil pepsi]

Do you live in a house with junkies? Do you leave syringes lying around without the cap? The only person who touches my stuff is me. The outside of a barrel has just as many microganisms as the outside of a vial. So where are you going with this?

come on dude, lets not get personal with this...

[frank12391]

You should use sterile forcepts to handle your viles, better still, wrap it in a autoclave bag and bake your gear 24/7 until you use it. Sterile enviroment. I hope your not implying that syringes arn't sterile. Do you share? where are you going with this??

[frank12391]

come on dude, lets not get personal with this...

I don't want to get personal it's just that theres a lot of people here trying to learn something. They must be as confused as S H I T. Appology if I offended you. Not my intention.

[frank12391]

Also, I'm not bashing your technique. I agree that it's a good one. I feel that your bashing mine. I believe they are both fine if done correctly and I was just giving the opinion that there is nothing wrong with storing them in syringes iether.

[evil pepsi]

Oh and don't fool yourself into believing you can create a sterile envioment in which to store your viles unless you permantly leave it in the autoclave...???????????
where are you going with this????

ok dude, time for a microbiology lesson.
first, the vial will be a self-contained environment. its sterile on the inside. the only way an organism can be introduced to this is if contamination exists. thanks to louis pasteur, we know that spontaneous generation does not exist. this means that the organism was brought in from the outside. the benzyl alcohol is there to prevent growth of anything that may pass through the barrier.
now, here is where the good stuff comes in.
for an organism to replicate, there has to be a medium in which it can reproduce (with the exception of endospores). now, how does benzyl alcohol prevent growth of pathogenic organisms you might ask? benzyl alcohol affects exocytosis/endocytosis in bacterial cells. it also affects the cell membrane in ways too lengthy to go into here.
now, as for the autoclave, where on earth did you get the idea of keeping gear in an autoclave? by stating this, it shows you are one of the people that believe you can sterilize your gear by cooking it. now, why is this not effective? simple-its called heat-resistant endospores. now, how might an endospore come about? when bacteria face what it views as stress, be it in the form of reduced nutrients, extreme heat, etc., it will form a protective barrier around itself to protect it from...disinfectants, heat, or stress.
as an rn, you should know that although an autoclave may be effective in antimicrobial methods, it will not work on a thermophilic organism, nor will it sterilize a solution. it also will not do anything to protect from heat-resistant endospores. where are most endospores found? from common bacteria found in water, soil, transient flora (which is on your skin!!!).
now, back to the vial, gear in a vial is by far safer than gear sitting in syringes until ready to use because you cannot keep the syringe in a sterile environment.
as for your argument over redijects, and pre-packaged medications already in a syringe, they are all protected within a sterile environment. your point in bringing that up is quite moot...

[evil pepsi]

i want to post a quick disclaimer in that i did not post that to insult, talk down to, or in any way degrade anyone. seems lately everyone wants to see proof of stuff lately, so i posted that somewhat tongue in cheek, and although frank may know how to protect his gear, the average person without a medical background will not have the same knowledge to protect themselves...

[TampaMan]

with all this debate...and possibility of contamination....I think I'll stick to vials no matter the price...

[evil pepsi]

dude, sachets can be just as safe as vials if you take care in handling them...

[frank12391]

Bro, you got your knickers in a twist. Your taking my comments out of context to try to gain credibility. I'll give you 10 points for that. Well done, but the truth is that storing gear in syringes is no less aseptic than transfering into vials. Go and ask a microbioligist. Syringes are just as sterile as vials so whether you store it in a vial or syringe makes no difference except that transfering into a vial requires an extra step, which I feel increases the chance of contamination. Both syringe and vial are sterile vessels, assuming that the vial is indeed sterile. Now, theres no need to pull the biology book on that, it's not rocket science. And yes, I know what spores are. You can have the nowledge of all the medical journals in the world but that dosn't make up for common sense. How do you suppose that you can store a vial in a sterile enviroment more than a syringe? and how do suppose that a syringe is less sterile than a vial? Both have sterile enviroments internally untill they are penetrated. Again, Where are you going with this?

[frank12391]

dude, sachets can be just as safe as vials if you take care in handling them...

By the way, arnt you using a syringe to transfer to a vial? My method is still in the syringe. Yours has to go into the vial and then back to a syringe. Mine stays there until I use another syringe to draw what I need. One less step for man. One giant leap against infection control. How do you get your gear into a vial? well with a syringe ofcourse. Are you suggesting thats not aseptic? You are using that method. The difference with my method is that it stays in the syringe until it is drawn with another to inject. Why do you say you need 6 different syringes? The sachets are 5ml. You can use a 5ml syringe or a 10ml. If you have more than one sachet, who says you have to draw them all out at once? I leave em in the sachets until I need too. Can't get any safer than that. Imagine my syringe is your vial. Why is your vial more sterile than my syringe except that you then have to transfer it into a vial and then back to a syringe to inject? I ask you, why is puting it into a vial a more sterile inviroment? It's not and if your talking about where you store them, thats got nothing to do with the argument nor does it make a diference. Again, where are you going with this?

[Property of Steroid.com]

were can i find teh lab reports?

Nowhere until they're independantly verified by a third party. In this case, I've chosen to work with the Admin of Elite Fitness to verify the lab's existence and the veracity of the tests.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I have no idea why you are quoting me. May be I missed understood his question, but I thought he was asking the total mg in each sachet. May be I am not understanding his question.


I dont know what to say? I am glad you have an independant third party who is testing the 3ml sachets???

Because you were giving ml amounts and doses, and I am saying that the ml amounts and dose you were giving isn't accurate, according to the lab tests I have.

[abstrack]

Because you were giving ml amounts and doses, and I am saying that the ml amounts and dose you were giving isn't accurate, according to the lab tests I have.

Also they sachets say they contain 3ml 200mg/ml. Now does this mean the sachet alone contains 600mg total of deca or am i miss reading it and all 3ml contain 200mgs of deca. Im a little confused with this because i am pending on to just purchase the bottle instead of the sachets.

His original question was trying to clarify what 3ml would equal to is the strenght was 200mg.

All I was doing is clarifying his math. In all future post in regards to any lab, I will say "I assume" the lab is filling their product according to what the label says and "I assume" the lab is dosing their product according to the label, therefore the produc should have......


Would this be more appropriate Mr. Anthony Roberts?

[frank12391]

[QUOTE=evil pepsi]first off, its not coming in and out of a vial. its going in once, where it will wait in a sterile environment until withdrawn.

First off, it's not coming in and out of a syringe, it's going in once where it will wait in a sterile enviroment until withdrawn. Rather than then going into a vile and then back to a syringe. I could go on for ever!

[frank12391]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=278405

[evil pepsi]

Bro, you got your knickers in a twist. Your taking my comments out of context to try to gain credibility. I'll give you 10 points for that. Well done, but the truth is that storing gear in syringes is no less aseptic than transfering into vials. Go and ask a microbioligist. Syringes are just as sterile as vials so whether you store it in a vial or syringe makes no difference except that transfering into a vial requires an extra step, which I feel increases the chance of contamination. Both syringe and vial are sterile vessels, assuming that the vial is indeed sterile. Now, theres no need to pull the biology book on that, it's not rocket science. And yes, I know what spores are. You can have the nowledge of all the medical journals in the world but that dosn't make up for common sense. How do you suppose that you can store a vial in a sterile enviroment more than a syringe? and how do suppose that a syringe is less sterile than a vial? Both have sterile enviroments internally untill they are penetrated. Again, Where are you going with this?

i got my knickers in a twist? dude, you give yourself far too much credit. where am i going with this? its obvious i lost you somewhere a few posts back. i would expect more from an rn than what you have posted.
let me break it down yet again for you. something you seem to keep missing, but i will simplify for you.
after you draw from the sachet, your pin is no longer sterile, not to mention the risk of foil inside the pin. got it? you have to change the pin out REGARDLESS. common sense dictactes that. it requires an extra step, therefore, your argument in saving a step is, as i mentioned earlier, a moot point.
now, EVERYONE in the medical field that is actually in the field knows that the sterility of a syringe is compromised the moment you expose it to air.
as for asking a microbiologist, thats pretty funny stuff, considering your weak response, i take that as a compliment...