First time cycle

[440Charger]

I was thinking of starting my first cycle and was wondering what would people recomend as a first time cycle. I'm only looking to put on about 10-15 lbs of lean mass in total that hopefully wont be hard to maintain when I stop.

I was looking at the ebook ANBOLICS 2006. And some of there sample cycles.

One that caught my eye was the Proviorn, Deca, Winstrol cycle that they say is a cutting / lean mass cycle. But from what I've read the gains can be hard to keep from deca. Plus my buddy said deca killed his libido after his cycle. But I guess that can also be due to his post cycle therapy. Didnt get to ask him bout it.

Any suggestions? I've been doing some research reading ........................................... and the ebook but want more real world experinces.

Thanks Guys

[jon77]

Welcome to AR.
Need to know your stats first. Age, ht, wt, bf%, goals,diet,ect. Research is key. Lot of important info here. I will tell you that the cycle you mention is no good.

[jon77]

Is your diet anything near or close to this...?
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=311311

[scaramouche]

yeh deca can be a stiffy murderer but not if u stack it with test,gains can be kept with proper diet and pct,as a rule of thumb test only,test/deca,test/dbol r good newbie cycles,keep reading bud

[jon77]

Read this too... http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

[Amorphic]

First cycle should be

test e 500mg/w for 12 weeks.

This is done to see how your body reacts to a baseline steroid such as testosterone. Proper PCT is of the utmost importance.

The educational threads have sample beginner cycles with PCT. I suggest you research for a few weeks at least, to educate yourself about these compounds and the importance of diet, PCT and proper training.

And welcome to AR

[440Charger]

Welcome to AR.
Need to know your stats first. Age, ht, wt, bf%, goals,diet,ect. Research is key. Lot of important info here. I will tell you that the cycle you mention is no good.

24, 5'10 185, bf % not to sure as of now but I'm fairly lean. Not to far off from these pictures where I was 185. Need to get good calipers.. Diet wise I'm pretty sure its checked out. I got to these photos with proper diet and some heavy lifting. Cut out most refined sugars (with the exception of post workout carbs which I i take dextrose with my shakes) and upped my veggies, fruits and lean protein sources. In those photos I was 185. I'm about 185 now maybe a little softer since I went away with the army and didn't get my lifts in as often as I liked.

Right now I'm cutting down trying to get rid of as much bf as possible. Want to try and do a clean bulk. Or as clean as possible I guess.

I only plan on one cycle (I'm sure a lot of you said that to) My goal is not to get MASSIVE but I want to be a solid 190-200 tops. It shouldn't be much of a stretch because if I don't watch what I eat and what not I normally walk around 190-195 and the heaviest I've ever been was 215 but that was a dirty ass bulk (which I'll never do again) and on creatine so some was water weight. I wont be starting until December / January. I'll prob try to naturally bulk in between and see how that goes. I'm prob only gonna try cutting weight for another month or so. I think i'm gonna start carb cycling to get rid of those last stick lbs as I've seen to hit a bit of a plateau.

Anyways I was looking at the beginner cycles as suggested at some of there beginner cycles and one that i researched as of yet was

1 - 10 Enan 500mg/wk
1 - 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 - 12 L-dex .25mg ED

Start PCT 2 weeks after last Enan injection

PCT: (havent researched this yet gotta read up on clomid, nolva etc)
Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31 - 37 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex


The side effects from that cycle seem manageable... From what I read the most common from the enan was lower hdl cholesterol and acne. But of course it also stated that hairloss, prostate enlargement and what not are also possible but were overstated and not that common.

The Nolvadex seems like a good addition from what I read. Some people said it reduced their gains (which shouldn't be to bad for me cause I don't want that much weight) but it also blocked estrogen to breast tissue apparently which would be good cause I guess it would reduce the chance of gynocomastia which would suck balls imo!

I cant find info on L-Dex anyone got a link or can post some info?

I'll read that PCT link you posted later haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the help so far jon777. As I stated I wont be starting anytime soon and its not for sure yet. But if I do I want to do it right the first time, minimize the risk and not be those people who loose all their gains after.

[440Charger]

Also... I was talking to my brother who was on this site. Don't know what his login was but he said to talk to you guys about a test propinate and winny cycle. Whats your take on that?

[440Charger]

From what I read winny isnt good for athletes because its known to have a tendency to weaken tendons. And I do wrestle and have to do running. So maybe its not best for me...

[jon77]

Hey 440,
Looks to me like you have a nice base to start with. Shoulders are kick ass! Might I suggest to tweak up those traps a little with some BB shrugs and upright rows < one of my favorite exercises if I might add. You mentioned plateau. You can combat this in two ways. 1) Switch your routine around completely. Do light weights and high reps, or vise versa, whichever one you are doing now. 2) Rest. Take a break for a week, maybe 2, and let your body recuperate. Personally,if you really feel this way and notice you are sluggish, wanting to skip a day when it's not an off day, you are over training and you should rest. Now assuming you read the diet and pct threads I posted, you should know by now that your diet and proper pct will dictate how well your results will look in the end. If you slack on your diet, you are robbing yourself of quality muscle. If you forget your pct, you'll loose almost everything if not all of it. So the term "discipline" fits right in here. Cool?...

IMO... I would recommend your first cycle to be something like this....
Test E @ 500mgs every forth or fifth day. I go 5 days. I recommend that you frontload as well. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264 This will bring you up to speed on frontloading and why we use this method. FL 1000mgs on week 1. Two shots of 500mgs in each glute. then your every 4-5 days after that @ 500mgs. Rotate injection sites. Remember that it takes up to 4-5 weeks for this stuff to hit you, so if your gear is legit, don't worry, cause it's coming! You might notice you are a little stronger in week 2 or 3, but when it hits you, you'll know it. You will officially become gorilla man in your gym

Now pct. I'm gonna start by saying that it is very important that you do pct.
However, that being said, alot of peeps do it differently and will probably tell you 10 different ways of doing it by the end of this week. I'm going to tell you what "I" did for my first cycle's pct. 10 days after my last injection I started my pct. Nolva 40mgs ED for first week--30mgs ED 2nd week--20mgs ED 3rd week--10 mgs ED last week. That was my pct. The only sides I experienced were a little acne on my inner forearms, that's it. As you gain cycle experience and start adding other compounds, your pct will have to be more aggressive than this. But IMO, first cycle,Test only, 500mgs, nolva is all you need. Yes it has been noted that nolva can steal a pound or two from your gains. But if your diet is in check, you should not worry too much. And do not run clomid and nolva together for pct. Number one they are both serms and do the same damn thing. Number two, why waste money on the same thing? Number 3, side effects of clomid is depression/blues, and it causes blurred vision/tracers in some peeps. NOW...which one you gonna choose. I thought so.

Just a few more pointers, then Ima headin to bed. When your ready to get your goods, get everything you will need before you start week one.
Pins,gear,nolva,alcohol swabs,ect. This goes for future cycles as well. You don't want to run out of gear during a cycle Last thing, water. Nothing but water. No juice, no fiz, no beer......WATER!!! Only exception maybe would be some tea, or, 1 cup of coffee in the AM. COOL?


And for everyone else that's reading this, I made good use of using IMO's....
So feel free to elaborate..................

[jAcKeD!!!!]

if ur only tryin to gain 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. ur cheapest way and best bet is to do fina u will put on 15 lbs of lean muscle easy bro!

[jon77]

if ur only tryin to gain 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. ur cheapest way and best bet is to do fina u will put on 15 lbs of lean muscle easy bro!

You need this in a very big way........http://www.anabolicbooks.com/

[longhorn814]

if ur only tryin to gain 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. ur cheapest way and best bet is to do fina u will put on 15 lbs of lean muscle easy bro!

wow, talk about some bad advice!!!

[440Charger]

Hey 440,
Looks to me like you have a nice base to start with. Shoulders are kick ass! Might I suggest to tweak up those traps a little with some BB shrugs and upright rows < one of my favorite exercises if I might add. You mentioned plateau. You can combat this in two ways. 1) Switch your routine around completely. Do light weights and high reps, or vise versa, whichever one you are doing now. 2) Rest. Take a break for a week, maybe 2, and let your body recuperate. Personally,if you really feel this way and notice you are sluggish, wanting to skip a day when it's not an off day, you are over training and you should rest. Now assuming you read the diet and pct threads I posted, you should know by now that your diet and proper pct will dictate how well your results will look in the end. If you slack on your diet, you are robbing yourself of quality muscle. If you forget your pct, you'll loose almost everything if not all of it. So the term "discipline" fits right in here. Cool?...

IMO... I would recommend your first cycle to be something like this....
Test E @ 500mgs every forth or fifth day. I go 5 days. I recommend that you frontload as well. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=285264 This will bring you up to speed on frontloading and why we use this method. FL 1000mgs on week 1. Two shots of 500mgs in each glute. then your every 4-5 days after that @ 500mgs. Rotate injection sites. Remember that it takes up to 4-5 weeks for this stuff to hit you, so if your gear is legit, don't worry, cause it's coming! You might notice you are a little stronger in week 2 or 3, but when it hits you, you'll know it. You will officially become gorilla man in your gym

Now pct. I'm gonna start by saying that it is very important that you do pct.
However, that being said, alot of peeps do it differently and will probably tell you 10 different ways of doing it by the end of this week. I'm going to tell you what "I" did for my first cycle's pct. 10 days after my last injection I started my pct. Nolva 40mgs ED for first week--30mgs ED 2nd week--20mgs ED 3rd week--10 mgs ED last week. That was my pct. The only sides I experienced were a little acne on my inner forearms, that's it. As you gain cycle experience and start adding other compounds, your pct will have to be more aggressive than this. But IMO, first cycle,Test only, 500mgs, nolva is all you need. Yes it has been noted that nolva can steal a pound or two from your gains. But if your diet is in check, you should not worry too much. And do not run clomid and nolva together for pct. Number one they are both serms and do the same damn thing. Number two, why waste money on the same thing? Number 3, side effects of clomid is depression/blues, and it causes blurred vision/tracers in some peeps. NOW...which one you gonna choose. I thought so.

Just a few more pointers, then Ima headin to bed. When your ready to get your goods, get everything you will need before you start week one.
Pins,gear,nolva,alcohol swabs,ect. This goes for future cycles as well. You don't want to run out of gear during a cycle Last thing, water. Nothing but water. No juice, no fiz, no beer......WATER!!! Only exception maybe would be some tea, or, 1 cup of coffee in the AM. COOL?


And for everyone else that's reading this, I made good use of using IMO's....
So feel free to elaborate..................

Thanks for the great post.

Couple questions.

When I said plateau I meant more so in my diet trying to cut bf now not so much in my training. The only reason I'm tired is cause I started a new job and I gotta get up earlier and I'm not getting enough sleep. Besides that though I'm still eager to hit the gym.

This cycle.. How long would you do it for? 8, 10, 12 weeks?

I see you mentioned you front loaded via 1000 mg first week and then 500 mg every week after. What do you think of swifto's post about starting at 579 mg and injecting 75 mg every day?

In reguards to pct and safety. I see you just recommend nolva. But that thread you recommended to me the guy mentions HCG, Aromasin, and Vitamin E. Why do you not think these would be required for a first time cycle? Also what would you keep on hand in case of complications arising such as hairloss, prostate enlargement, and shutting down your body’s own natural hormonal system or whatever else..

[Booz]

if ur only tryin to gain 10-15 lbs of lean muscle. ur cheapest way and best bet is to do fina u will put on 15 lbs of lean muscle easy bro!

not a good idea for a 1st cycle watsoever imo.......................

[440Charger]

Also I hear test e can cause bloat problems. And that test prop is a much better alternative with less side effects but more pricey. With test prop you gotta inject everyday but I guess that keeps your test levels more stable which would lower the chances of side effects from what I read.... Injecting every 5 days with test e would cause your levels to drop to 270 something before it got back up. But then I guess you could inject test e everyday like mentioned in that frontloading thread starting with 579 and doing 75 everyday.

Either way you don't recommend taking Arimidex at .5 or 1mg a day for the duration of the cycle?

Also I see that test e stays in the system long after the cycle. Something that would be out of the system faster could be benificial.

Also in reguard to my traps.. I broke my clavical and I belive thats why I have one trap bigger than the other. I've tried alot to get them to balance out nothing seems to work. Might be destined to have shitty traps

[Amorphic]

Also I hear test e can cause bloat problems. And that test prop is a much better alternative with less side effects but more pricey. With test prop you gotta inject everyday but I guess that keeps your test levels more stable which would lower the chances of side effects from what I read.... Injecting every 5 days with test e would cause your levels to drop to 270 something before it got back up. But then I guess you could inject test e everyday like mentioned in that frontloading thread starting with 579 and doing 75 everyday.

Either way you don't recommend taking Arimidex at .5 or 1mg a day for the duration of the cycle?

Also I see that test e stays in the system long after the cycle. Something that would be out of the system faster could be benificial.

Also in reguard to my traps.. I broke my clavical and I belive thats why I have one trap bigger than the other. I've tried alot to get them to balance out nothing seems to work. Might be destined to have shitty traps

The bloat is water retention related to estrogen. Taking an AI such as arimidex will stop this from happening.

Test prop isnt a better alternative to test e for a first cycle, ed injections are a pain for newbs and prop can hurt like hell. Test is test, it wil act the exact same way in your body, just released fasted into your bloodstream due to the prop ester.

Yes, take the arimidex.

Test e stays longer in the system yes, but 'having it out of your system faster' is not necessary as the sides are not going to be hard for you at all. If it was TREN enathate, that would be a different story, that is why most tren users use acetate for their first attempt because it clears out faster if they cant handle the sides.

As far as traps, that sucks, keep going on the shrugs

[440Charger]

should i just shrug the one side more than the other? I'd imagine id have to work it more.

[jon77]

Couple questions.This cycle.. How long would you do it for? 8, 10, 12 weeks?

What do you think of swifto's post about starting at 579 mg and injecting 75 mg every day?

In reguards to pct and safety. I see you just recommend nolva. But that thread you recommended to me the guy mentions HCG, Aromasin, and Vitamin E. Why do you not think these would be required for a first time cycle? Also what would you keep on hand in case of complications arising such as hairloss, prostate enlargement, and shutting down your body’s own natural hormonal system or whatever else..

10 weeks


Swifto is Swifto, and cannot vouch for his info, because ......I dunno


Yes. I know that thread recommended more compounds for pct. And that's fine for later cycles with higher doses and multiple AAS. I'd like for you to listen to a few quotes made by Anthony Roberts in his Anabolic Steroid Guide.
This is pretty much the last paragraph in the Nolvadex profile at the bottom of page 258............................................... ..........................................
" The best (rough) estimate I can give you from my research is that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150%, and this would of course greatly aid post cycle recovery. What this means to us is that if you take Nolvadex after a cycle when you are trying to raise your levels of testosterone, LH, and FSH back to normal, it will greatly aid recovery. IN FACT, IF I WERE LIMITED TO JUST ONE COMPOUND TO AID ME IN POST CYCLE RECOVERY, NOLVADEX WOULD BE MY CHOICE. If you want a comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone,"

NOW...Opinions are just that, opinions. And I happen to agree with Anthony's opinion, and anyone else with the same opinion that agrees with my opinion.
Opinions??


That being said, I cannot justify the reason why hypochondriac tendencies seem to flood the minds of peeps doing 500mgs of test e only for their first cycle. ...........................................YOU WILL BE FINE

[Amorphic]

should i just shrug the one side more than the other? I'd imagine id have to work it more.

The workout forum might have better answers.

I would think you should do them normally, without your normal range of motion for both sides, just making sure you dont aggrivate an injury or anything.

[440Charger]

ha ok jon77 thanks man

So just to sum everything up. If I DO decide to juice in December.

Test e 1000 mg first week ( i guess in one dose) and 500 mg every 5 days. So I'll need a total of 7500 mg of test e.

Arimidex .5mg a day for a total of 35 mg (guess this is kinda optional since I'm not using something like tren?)

PCT:

Starts 10 days after last dose of test e and includes

Nolva 40mgs ED for first week--30mgs ED 2nd Week--20mgs ED 3rd week--10 mgs ED last week for a total of 490 mgs of nolva

That about sums it up?

OH and how much can I expect to gain on a cycle like this and how much of it will I KEEP being the key part. Providing my diet is sorted out and I'm diligent.

[jon77]

ha ok jon77 thanks man

So just to sum everything up. If I DO decide to juice in December.

Test e 1000 mg first week ( i guess in one dose) and 500 mg every 5 days. So I'll need a total of 7500 mg of test e.

Arimidex .5mg a day for a total of 35 mg (guess this is kinda optional since I'm not using something like tren?)

PCT:

Starts 10 days after last dose of test e and includes

Nolva 40mgs ED for first week--30mgs ED 2nd Week--20mgs ED 3rd week--10 mgs ED last week for a total of 490 mgs of nolva

That about sums it up?

OH and how much can I expect to gain on a cycle like this and how much of it will I KEEP being the key part. Providing my diet is sorted out and I'm diligent.

Imo... split your frontload...don't try shooting 1000mgs into one glute, cause I'm sure you would hurt awhile, and most of us would at you.

If you would feel better taking Arimidex, get it by all means.

Your math on the Nolva was a little off...try 700mgs total for those 4 full weeks (7 days), plus I'd have a little extra in case you need to battle any gyno symptoms during your cycle.

With diet in check, 18-25 lbs in 10 weeks........expect to loose 7-10 lbs within a month after coming off, again providing your diet in check.

[440Charger]

sorry for the endless questions. I'm one of those guys who if im going to do it I wana make sure its right feel free to hit me after

Ok so in re guards to splitting the front load.
Shoot it on two different days? Like Monday 500 and Tuesday 500? Or shoot the 1000 on one day but two separate muscles?

Extra nolva? Maybe an extra weeks worth of 40 mgs ed kicking around?

I know you mention that nolva is all I need. But is there anything else to help minimize the loses when I come off?

I read this post http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=289786
its a test e and winny cycle. I guess I can expect similer results? In the end he gains about 10 lbs in total. But it doesnt look like he front loads and his doses are slightly smaller so maybe I'll gain a bit more than him...

[Mr Tick]

DAM good info Jon77!! Thanks Bro. I was also wondering about swifts post on the 75mg ED. I have tried replying in that thread with no success. 440Charger if i hear anything on that kinda cycle ill shoot you a pm.

[jon77]

sorry for the endless questions.

shoot the 1000 on one day but two separate muscles?

Extra nolva? But is there anything else to help minimize the loses when I come off?

No Problem, thats the main way for humans to gain intelligence.

YES

Yes, onhand/nearby

I'm currently researching the last part....will let you know what I come up with.

[mx3]

clen is anticatabolic and can help maintain gains also I take proviron 25mg a day for a month in pct that helps lastly hcg 500iu a day for three weeks to get your test levels back up all this and you should keep most of your gains.

[mx3]

along with an AI and a SERM although the proviron can take the place of your AI but I take arimidex on top.

[440Charger]

talking to some people on another forum and they were saying the adex should be dosed at .25-.5 eod? I guess that would be just as good since its not really needed right?

[jon77]

talking to some people on another forum and they were saying the adex should be dosed at .25-.5 eod? I guess that would be just as good since its not really needed right?

If you choose to take it, .25 would be the correct dose for you.

[440Charger]

everyother day?

And did you find anything else to possible add to pct to maintain more of the gains? Would u use HCG and Aromasin like mentioned in that thread you posted? Would that allow for more of the gains to be maintained? I know you said you only used nolva on your first cycle but knowing what you know now would you do anything differnt? How much did you gain on this cycle first time you did it?

[440Charger]

bumo

[mkrulic]

First cycle should be

test e 500mg/w for 12 weeks.

This is done to see how your body reacts to a baseline steroid such as testosterone. Proper PCT is of the utmost importance.

The educational threads have sample beginner cycles with PCT. I suggest you research for a few weeks at least, to educate yourself about these compounds and the importance of diet, PCT and proper training.

And welcome to AR

this was the best advice offered. keep it simple. dont front load or taper or none of that stuff. everything you need is right here.

[440Charger]

Ive read alot on the clomid / nolva thing and from what I read you dont need to run both. But Alot of the pct I see in the thread show both.