How do you guys keep your gains?

**SolarTint** · 10-18-2008, 03:09 PM

After your cycle is done
how do you guys keep your gains?

**daem** · 10-18-2008, 03:17 PM

Proper PCT (post-cycle therapy) and tweaking the on-cycle diet.

This means I will generally increase the amount of protein by 15% per day, decrease the carbohydrates by 10%, and hold fat constant.

This is what works for me after years of experimentation.

Do some research of PCT and the compounds that are typically used, namely Clomid, Nolvadex , HCG , and Aromatase Inhibitors like Arimidex , Letrozole , Aromasin , or Exemestane.

That should get you started!

**inky-e** · 10-18-2008, 03:37 PM

After my last cycle I experimented with clen in my pct, used it only on workout days 20 minutes prior, I got great results and of the 22 lbs that I gained "on" ..I kept 17lbs...and it was NOT fat! Before one of you little hotshots posts that clen is not pct....I INCLUDED clen in it along with adex and nolva as I always do.

**LATS60** · 10-18-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by inky-e

After my last cycle I experimented with clen in my pct, used it only on workout days 20 minutes prior, I got great results and of the 22 lbs that I gained "on" ..I kept 17lbs...and it was NOT fat! Before one of you little hotshots posts that clen is not pct....I INCLUDED clen in it along with adex and nolva as I always do.

What doses were you using? I know this stuff can be catabolic at high doses, so you did well to hold so much.

**DSM4Life** · 10-18-2008, 03:41 PM

hardwork

**inky-e** · 10-18-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

What doses were you using? I know this stuff can be catabolic at high doses, so you did well to hold so much.

I maxed at 120mcg's..and had incredible strength gain in PCT..I will include it from now on.

**JiGGaMaN** · 10-18-2008, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by inky-e

Before one of you little hotshots posts that clen is not pct....I INCLUDED clen in it along with adex and nolva as I always do.

lol is that the tren talking?

I'm on pct right now and hating it. I should be on HRT and will probably consider the move some time in the future. For the time being im experimenting with mirtazapine as it has been shown to decrease cortisol levels.

**Ashop** · 10-18-2008, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by SolarTint

After your cycle is done
how do you guys keep your gains?

Proper PCT,,continued diet,training, and supplementation.

**LATS60** · 10-18-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by inky-e

I maxed at 120mcg's..and had incredible strength gain in PCT..I will include it from now on.

Cheers, i don't do PCT but was thinking of adding it on cruise this time, a start of 75mcg, would that be ok? cheers inky.

**JiGGaMaN** · 10-18-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

Cheers, i don't do PCT but was thinking of adding it on cruise this time, a start of 75mcg, would that be ok? cheers inky.

what were you hoping to get out of it?

**LATS60** · 10-18-2008, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by JiGGaMaN

what were you hoping to get out of it?

Well firstly, i know what clen is, i know what it does, i know what it's used for and i understand the pharmacodynamics of the drug and it's off-label uses.
But if inky can come away with those gains on PCT and i can't do that on cruise and blast, then i'm interested in user reviews.

**MercyDog** · 10-18-2008, 06:35 PM

After a certain size you cannot keep your gains off cycle, its not natural. To keep the size up you have to keep the gear going.

**stpete** · 10-18-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by DSM4Life

hardwork

Pretty much sums it up. You either like to workout or you don't.

**richtries** · 10-18-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by MercyDog

After a certain size you cannot keep your gains off cycle, its not natural. To keep the size up you have to keep the gear going.

Thats an interesting point mercydog, whats other peoples views on this . . .

Are the gains you make on cycle yours to keep FOREVER? Do you actually increase your natural base weight through using steroids each time??

For instance, my natural peak is around 180 lbs, and i can always get back up to this weight after a period away from the gym. If after a cycle i weighed in at 200 lbs, can i always achieve this max weight, even after time off from the gym and dieting. If i done 5 cycles over 5 years, and gained 20 lbs from each, do you think in 5 years time i would weigh 280 lbs, 100 lbs heavier? Or is part of the reason you keep cycling to replenish some lbs that you´ve lost over time from a previous cycle . . . fear i have opened a can of worms here.

**anabolictonic** · 10-18-2008, 10:46 PM

nah mate it doesnt work like that...once you go over your natural peak with aas and then come off cycle you will gradually drop back down to your genetic maximum, the reason being you body can only naturally produce enough testosterone to sustain a certain amount of muscle = this being your genetic maximum

**rhino1** · 10-18-2008, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

What doses were you using? I know this stuff can be catabolic at high doses, so you did well to hold so much.

clen is ANTI catabolic.....are you thinking about t3?

**anabolictonic** · 10-18-2008, 10:53 PM

clen isnt catibolic.. as i said in response to one of your earlier posts rhino that i believe its only anticatabolic in animals - the amount required for clen to be anti catabolic humans was rediculous and lethal... but t3 by itself is definately catabolic it is not a selective antagonist like clen is... never run t3 without aas

**rhino1** · 10-18-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by LATS60

What doses were you using? I know this stuff can be catabolic at high doses, so you did well to hold so much.

IF you would PLEASE read the ABOVE QUOTE....thank you

**rhino1** · 10-18-2008, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by anabolictonic

clen isnt catibolic.. as i said in response to one of your earlier posts rhino that i believe its only anticatabolic in animals - the amount required for clen to be anti catabolic humans was rediculous and lethal... but t3 by itself is definately catabolic it is not a selective antagonist like clen is... never run t3 without aas

I UNDERstand THIS...what is your point...i have previously agreed with you...are you trying to teach me something? im not sure what your aim is...

the fact that the anti catibolic dosage level is so high why is it even a topic of discussion....

its like telling me macaroni and cheese will make you loose weight at high doses....yeah...eat enough, then die, then your body decomposes and you become lighter....

do you take me for an idiot?

**anabolictonic** · 10-18-2008, 11:09 PM

sorry mate i didnt see what you wrote i was merely agreeing with you on the t3 front and trying to offer my 2c thats all.. i came off sounding like a smart ass i think sorry bout that

**rhino1** · 10-18-2008, 11:11 PM

no biggy....i just upped my tren dose....IM SORRY.....

**anabolictonic** · 10-19-2008, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by rhino1

no biggy....i just upped my tren dose....IM SORRY.....

hahaha nice

**tprop** · 10-19-2008, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by anabolictonic

nah mate it doesnt work like that...once you go over your natural peak with aas and then come off cycle you will gradually drop back down to your genetic maximum, the reason being you body can only naturally produce enough testosterone to sustain a certain amount of muscle = this being your genetic maximum

so does this mean if im like 20 lbs below maximum genetics and cycle 1st time and gain 10lbs then go off and go natural for like 1 or 2 years then can i reach full genetic max natural(gain the 10lbs) during those 1 or 2 years.

**rhino1** · 10-19-2008, 12:57 AM

i have always felt if i did proper pct and got my natural test back up quickly my results stayed....but then again...maybe i have not reached my "genetic maximum" myself.

Also being mindfull of diet and training...

**anabolictonic** · 10-19-2008, 01:03 AM

i had a more experienced user tell me if you use them too early and end up still short of ur genetic max its harder to get there naturally but he never explained the sceince behind it

**tprop** · 10-19-2008, 01:24 AM

Wow just the thought of not getting those 10 lbs really sickens me i guess im going natural for another year or 2

**fattymcbutterpants** · 10-19-2008, 01:43 AM

i made the mistake of cycling way to early before i was even near genetic potential and the only real problem i have noticed is it truly is harder to make gains after you have cycled. I found it took alot more work than before cycling. I mean its doable to still make gains just a good bit harder

**LATS60** · 10-19-2008, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by rhino1

IF you would PLEASE read the ABOVE QUOTE....thank you

Yes i READ it THANKS.

Body builders and athletes most often utilise clenbuterol as a 'fat burner' to 'define' muscles (i.e.for its 'catabolic effect'). Clenbuterol has the ability to slightly increase the body's coretemperature and metabolism, which users believe assists in the burning of calories. The bodywill fight this effect however, so clenbuterol may only have an effect over a limited time period

This may sound even stranger after what I just said but Clen can truly be a catabolic drug, too. At low dosage, it will go unnoticed. But past a certain amount (equivalent of 15-20 tablets of 20 mcg) chances are you are going to get sore by using Clen. Scientific research in humans demonstrates a potent catabolic effect of Clen as reflected by a rise of serum creatine kinase level. This means that Clen is attacking our muscle cells a bit like heavy training does.
We are both right, yes? I did say CATABOLIC in high doses in my original post, maybe you misread it.
I'll post clinical data for both sides if you wish.

**richtries** · 10-19-2008, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by richtries

Thats an interesting point mercydog, whats other peoples views on this . . .

Are the gains you make on cycle yours to keep FOREVER? Do you actually increase your natural base weight through using steroids each time??

For instance, my natural peak is around 180 lbs, and i can always get back up to this weight after a period away from the gym. If after a cycle i weighed in at 200 lbs, can i always achieve this max weight, even after time off from the gym and dieting. If i done 5 cycles over 5 years, and gained 20 lbs from each, do you think in 5 years time i would weigh 280 lbs, 100 lbs heavier? Or is part of the reason you keep cycling to replenish some lbs that you´ve lost over time from a previous cycle . . . fear i have opened a can of worms here.

Originally Posted by anabolictonic

nah mate it doesnt work like that...once you go over your natural peak with aas and then come off cycle you will gradually drop back down to your genetic maximum, the reason being you body can only naturally produce enough testosterone to sustain a certain amount of muscle = this being your genetic maximum

So does this then mean . . . by cycling you are just ´yoyoing´ with your weight, gaining on cycle but slowly loosing all your gains in the lead up (time-off) to your next cycle or

do you only loose say half your gains whilst off cycle so you do add mass each time but after you stop cycling all together you will return to your natural or genetic peak eventually . . . how long this may take i have no idea.

**x-generic** · 10-19-2008, 04:29 PM

in all my cycles that i've done before after th cycle i do pct 4 weeks than i keep my gain with some insulin for 4 weeks before i strat my next cycle it was great moment but i've stopped for coplle of years and i'm planing to start again

**Lach01** · 10-19-2008, 04:39 PM

good pct and changing my diet around also cut back a bit on cardio but only ever so slighty.

**T3/T4 GSR** · 10-19-2008, 05:02 PM

PCT will help but if you plan to really be a large dude all the time when you are not naturally big you will fall into a cycle of juicing more often than not. You guys can say what you want but that is just how it goes. Gains and size are just as addicting as any other high from a drug.

**reaper43230** · 10-19-2008, 05:54 PM

well deffinitely the best way to keep growing and to help keep maintaining large amounts of muscle mass you will need to continue using cycling often. Proper pct after your cycle does help and it works for me and helps me continue to keep some of the mass, you will always loose some. I always notice more strength loss than muscle size.

**DSM4Life** · 10-19-2008, 06:01 PM

If your question is related to what MDog was saying , about your body trying to get back to its genetic weight then your question is a good one. I have searched for studies on the net trying to see if its normal for one to loss 100% of their gains (or close to) after a cycle in the body's attempt to return to its "normal" bodyweight. I haven't found anything as of yet and i really don't expect to as there aren't many studies on steriods .

**richtries** · 10-19-2008, 07:09 PM

Yes DSM my question was relating to what Mdog said, I thought it was a good one, quite chuffed now ha

It makes sense, that the body is limited to how much muscle mass it can maintain by your natural test levels, so in time anything gained from administering synthetic test will be lost and eventually you will return to your genetic max even if you continue with training/diet. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

**DSM4Life** · 10-19-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by richtries

Yes DSM my question was relating to what Mdog said, I thought it was a good one, quite chuffed now ha

It makes sense, that the body is limited to how much muscle mass it can maintain by your natural test levels, so in time anything gained from administering synthetic test will be lost and eventually you will return to your genetic max even if you continue with training/diet. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I personally believe that this is the truth.

**MercyDog** · 10-19-2008, 07:56 PM

it takes an amount of hormones to feed an amount of muscle.

**sizerp** · 10-19-2008, 09:08 PM

Is there a way to guess your genetic maximum weight...? I imagine I am nowhere near it, yet... No men in my remote family lift, where's my comparison?

**kloan** · 10-19-2008, 09:52 PM

What if one was to cycle before they reach their genetic max, would they then be more likely to keep those gains (assuming proper diet, exercise, PCT, etc follow)?

**Ladies Man** · 10-19-2008, 11:03 PM

This is actually an excellent inquiry. All of us should share our thoughts on this because whats the point of all this if we cant maintain and keep some size and strength in the long run. Personally from my own experience i found that diet is a fundamental element in your training u gotta eat to grow. Secondly immedately after i finish off a cycle obviously i experience some size and strength diminish but i always end up stronger than pre cycle phase. Also a strange thing happens where after sometime after pct i tend to start getting big again and actually ended bigger than before naturally. Maybe roids also activate your genes for growth. i mean i was always a very skinny kid now i am bigger than most of my friends. what do u guys think?