First long cycle

[MUSCULAR2]

Im 21 5'7 about 181 with about 8-10% bf. Im getting ready to do my first show in april 2009. My friend is currently competing athe national level. I started a cycle a few months ago but had to cut it short due to and infection in my leg due to some bad gear. I have currently purchased some legit gear of Test E. Im running 1000mg a week for 10 wks and then Im gonna drop to a small dosage an and run some tren and winny before my show. I was just wanting to see what expected gains should be. I have a good pct lined up and I have a good clean bodybuilding diet wrote out by my friend who is a nutritionist. Thanks for any info as to what i should expect?

[chuckt12345]

how many cycles have you done? or what was your last Test dosage for a cycle?

[MUSCULAR2]

My last test dosage was 500 mg wk

[MUSCULAR2]

but it was only for a few weeks

[chuckt12345]

then i wouldnt see the need for 1000wk,, that may be over kill.
why you lower the test at week 10 and how and when you stackin the tren/win

[THEMEATEATER]

I'd try at 500mg again, no need to be doing 1000 m8, thats quite a jump.
I cant comment on the tren as I've never taken it, not yet anyway.

[mx3]

no need for a 1000 mg ew. 500-750mg ew will work fine. how far out is your show (months)? when do you plan on starting the winni and tren, what duration will use them and at what dosages. I would normally tell you your probably not ready for a cycle like that but if your competing ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Slin Ninja]

yeah man, keep it around 500mg. 1000 just brings more sides...

[Bossman]

If your contest is in April 09, then you have 5-6 months to go depending on the date of the contest. At 21 you don't want to be "on" that long. This is your first cycle (first time doesn't count, cut short) and your first contest. It would have been better to start this earlier. Can you get your hands on test Prop? If so, I would run a short "clean bulk" cycle for 8 weeks( that means eat clean, dont turn into a fat bastard). Then run a PCT for 4-6 weeks. And then, go into a cutting cycle designed to help maintain what muscle mass you have. Your cutting cycle would utilize the Tren/winny and test preferably. That PCT isn't very long between cycles but its better then running straight through.

Oh, 500 mg a week is plenty. I competed last at 208, 5'8" and have never gone above 700 mg per week of test.

[chuckt12345]

If your contest is in April 09, then you have 5-6 months to go depending on the date of the contest. At 21 you don't want to be "on" that long. This is your first cycle (first time doesn't count, cut short) and your first contest. It would have been better to start this earlier. Can you get your hands on test Prop? If so, I would run a short "clean bulk" cycle for 8 weeks. Then run a PCT for 4-6 weeks. And then, go into a cutting cycle designed to help maintain what muscle mass you have. Your cutting cycle would utilize the Tren/winny and test preferably. That PCT isn't very long between cycles but its better then running straight through.

Oh, 500 mg a week is plenty. I competed last at 208, 5'8" and have never gone above 700 mg per week of test.

he would need more time off in between those 2 cycles. i would just time the full cycle for when you have your contest.

so start sometime in mid december

run 12 weeks of test at 500mg/wk ,, start your tren on week 4 or 5 (depends if it short or long E) and then kick in your winny on the weeks 9-14? ? Then again thats alot for first cycle.

[Bossman]

he would need more time off in between those 2 cycles. i would just time the full cycle for when you have your contest.

so start sometime in mid december

run 12 weeks of test at 500mg/wk ,, start your tren on week 4 or 5 (depends if it short or long E) and then kick in your winny on the weeks 9-14? ? Then again thats alot for first cycle.

I agree, if you can get him to wait. I would have started him a couple months back on a bulking cycle, then a good PCT before he started a cutting cycle. But, if he is already running the test then he's on his way to a 6 month cycle.

[MUSCULAR2]

Yes I am currently going on week 3 of the test E, it is long ester. Honestly Im not sure as to when to bring the winny or tren in. Im kinda relying on my nutritionist/bodybuilder to help me along. I was just wanting more opinions on what to do. I was thinking that 1000 mg a week was a little high but he said it would be fine. This guy seems to know his stuff...at the age of 24 he is competing on the natonla level so I was just wanting more opinions as to when to bring the winny and tren into play...I was think I need to at least run a small pct inot cycles what do u guys think? If so what kinda pct would you run.

[graeme87]

I thought you had your PCT sorted?

[MUSCULAR2]

I do have a pct sorted but it is for a longer time peroid...Im gonna have to cut the pct short...should I just cut it short or should I up my mgs due to shorting it.

[MUSCULAR2]

I was just gonna run the two cycles straight together due to the time frame.

[FireGuy]

Post a pic and let us see what you are working with.

[MUSCULAR2]

I will later this evening I cant at the moment

[chuckt12345]

what type of tren you have

[MUSCULAR2]

i dont have the tren yet...but it is easily accessible....what kind would u recommend

[graeme87]

I do have a pct sorted but it is for a longer time peroid...Im gonna have to cut the pct short...should I just cut it short or should I up my mgs due to shorting it.

How much time do you have set aside for your pct?

For example 1 week of nolva at 80mg is not the same as 4 weeks of nolva at 20mg.

[graeme87]

Also when is your show? the more info you give the better the advice we can give.

As a general idea I'd go for something like:

week 1 - 10 Test E
week 11 - 20 test prop
week 11 - 20 tren ace

drop the test and tren about 4 days before the comp and run the winny up to the day of the comp.

[chuckt12345]

Also when is your show? the more info you give the better the advice we can give.

As a general idea I'd go for something like:

week 1 - 10 Test E
week 11 - 20 test prop
week 11 - 20 tren ace

drop the test and tren about 4 days before the comp and run the winny up to the day of the comp.

This is his first cycle ever though,, 20 wk?

[MUSCULAR2]

That is what I was looking to run....i am currently 21 weeks out from my show

[graeme87]

This is his first cycle ever though,, 20 wk?

Ah sorry didn't know this was his first run.

1g of test e and then moving onto tren is a bit much for your first cycle bro. You don't need that to grow.

I got about 20lbs out of my first cycle of test e at 500mg, I doubt 1,000mg would have given me much more as I was growing like a weed and the body can only grow so fast.

10-12 weeks test prop finishing with winny would do the trick (lean bulk diet)

Don't look to be Mr O with your first cycle.

[graeme87]

since you are on week 3 I'd continure with this cycle for 7 more weeks make this all about bulking (14 weeks to the show by the end of the cycle)

4 week PCT (10 weeks to the show by the end of PCT)

Start a new cutting cycle 3 weeks before the show (that will give you 4 weeks PCT plus 7 weeks off, not quite time on = time off but close enough)

If you are starting a cycle 3 weeks before a show (not the best idea but you need time off, you will need something that kicks in fast!)

Test sup and winny would be nice

[Bossman]

You friend might be national level (Im national level also) but he's giving you some bad advice. I would not advise going above 500mg test per week at your level. You may experience excessive bloating, acne as well as other sides from running too much test. You don't want that leading up to a contest. You should run your test right up to a week before the contest. Stop all injectables a week prior to avoid any localized injection site swelling. You'll look stupid with a lump on your ass or elsewhere when you're on stage.

If you're going to run AAs right up to you contest with no break (sounds like that's what you're doing) add tren 8 weeks before the show. Try to get Tren Acetate and inject 150 mgs EOD. I would prefer 75mgs ED but being this is your first real cycle you might not be able to handle Ed injections. Tren ACE starts to act within a few days. This way if you have some bad sides (Ive had some bad sides!) you can quit taking the Tren and it will be out of your system in a week or so and the sides will be gone. If you are going to add the winny, run it 50mgs ED, 6 weeks out from the show. Winny does not burn fat! It will help in hardening your physique only.

If at all possible, get some HCG and run it throughout your cycle, 250 ius twice a week. This will help in your recovery after the cycle is over.


Don't start a cycle 3 weeks before the show, it will be tooooooo late. If that's the case, schedule a different show.

[graeme87]

My origenal idea for cycling 21 weeks would give best results but if you are going to listen to people telling you that is too long for a first cycle etc then go with the second.

cgb - I don't think starting sup and winny 3 weeks before the show is too late to give a hard look on stage. Not the best idea I agree but considering he is 21 and on his first cycle it's the best we can do unless he goes for the long cycle which many would say is not a good idea for a first cycle.

running up until the show would be best for your look on stage but in the long run maybe not the best thing.

[Bossman]

A PCT for 7 weeks and then start a cycle 3 weeks before the contest? He should be dieting and training for 12-14 weeks before the contest. During that time he needs the AAS to help keep as much muscle as he can. AAS is not just for hardening. It brings vascularity, fullness, hardness and maintains muscle mass during contest prep. Any break for PCT needs to be before he starts his contest prep or he should schedule another show, which Im sure he won't do.

[MUSCULAR2]

I think its best to run the complete time. Im thinking the 1000mgs will drop to around 500mg in a few weeks. I plan on running test all the way up to show. But Ill need a short ester test right. To run with the tren and winny? You guys have been very helpful as this is my first show and all, and I have learned alot and have tons more to learn. Thanks

[graeme87]

I agree he would not be in perfect shape that is why I origenaly proposed a 21 week cycle but considering this is his first cycle I decided to offer an alternative, the alternative will not give as good results but it's either that or have him run a 21 week cycle with 1g of test and some tren ON HIS FIRST CYCLE.

The test dose is way to high for a first timer.
21 weeks is too long for a first cycle.
Tren is not adviced for a first cycle.

Also concider he is 181lbs.

The choice he has is to run a bad first cycle (bad as in too advanced for a 181lbs beginer) and look great for his first show OR run a "proper" cycle and not look as good as he could for his show but at least this way he will have a responsible start to using AAS rather than jumping in the deep end and trying to get everything out of one cycle.

[graeme87]

I think its best to run the complete time. Im thinking the 1000mgs will drop to around 500mg in a few weeks. I plan on running test all the way up to show. But Ill need a short ester test right. To run with the tren and winny? You guys have been very helpful as this is my first show and all, and I have learned alot and have tons more to learn. Thanks

You can get long ester tren but the idea of using short esters is they get out of your system quicker. Regarding tren this isn't such a big deal but the test brings water bloat so using a short ester will help you drop the water bloat faster and since you will be using a short ester test you might as well mix the short ester tren in the same injection.

[graeme87]

You'll see I have offered two choices of cycling.

the long cycle (will give best results but not ideal for a beginger)
the short cycle and PCT the onto an other cycle (not the best for results but more routine if you like for a newbi)

If you to decide to go for the long cycle you will have to have a solid PCT and a good amount of time off from using gear.

[MUSCULAR2]

yeah...Im kinda tied on which way to go because this is the third week and I havent seen any sides yet, but I don't wanna see any either ya know.

[MUSCULAR2]

If I go with the long cycle...could you give me an example as to what you call a solid pct?

[graeme87]

Your gear hasn't kicked in yet but I don't think you will get too many sides with just test only. Although 1g is high so maybe drop it to 500mg and call the first 3 weeks a kick start.

Honestly 1,000mg of test isn't going to give you more gains than 500mg on your first cycle because you will be growing as fast as your body can.

In later cycles when you don't grow from 500mg you will need more but 1,000mg isn't going to give you anything but more suides.

Are you using nolva?

[MUSCULAR2]

i was gonna do
wk 1-5 clomid 25-50 mg/ed
wk 1-5 nolva 20 mg/ed
wk 1-5 aromasin or proviron 25 mg/ed

[MUSCULAR2]

no im not running nolva right now....wile on cycle Im just running some species testolyze...i was saving the nolva for pct

[graeme87]

What about during the cycle? What are you taking to control gyno?

[MUSCULAR2]

Dave Plaumbo recommended his testiolyze product to my friend. Its an estrogen blocker and dht. Thats what im running right now.

[Bossman]

I think its best to run the complete time. Im thinking the 1000mgs will drop to around 500mg in a few weeks. I plan on running test all the way up to show. But Ill need a short ester test right. To run with the tren and winny? You guys have been very helpful as this is my first show and all, and I have learned alot and have tons more to learn. Thanks

You shouldn't wait to drop the test to 500, do it now. I would run .25 mg adex per day when you start your contest prep. This will help keep your estrogen low. You don't want any bloat during your prep making it more difficult to access your progess. You don't need to switch to test prop but if you can this is a better alternative. A good time to switch would be about 8 weeks out and at that time add Tren acetate. Add your winny 6 weeks out. Winny can be oral and that might not be a bad idea. Injecting water based winny can really cause soreness and swelling.