Blood Analyses After 36 Days of Oxandrolone at 60/70 mg ED

[BJJ]

CHOLESTEROL TTL: 168 mg/dl (after: 179) (range 140-220) day 36 (205)
CHOLESTEROL HDL: 41 mg/dl (after: 13) (range >=40) day 36 (11)
INDEX RISK HDL: 4,1 (after: 13,76) (range till 5) day 36 (19,2)
CHOLESTEROL LDL: 105 mg/dl (after: 157) (range 130-159, elevated borderline) day 36 (199) (range >190, very elevated)
BILIRUBIN TTL: 1,98 mg/dl (after: 0,83) (range 0,2-1) day 36 (0,78)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT: 0,22 mg/dl (after: 0,1) (range 0,05-0,3) day 36 (0,1)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT: 1,76 mg/dl (after: 0,73) (range till 0,7) day 36 (0,68)
CREATININE: 1,2 mg/dl (after: 1,2) (range 0,8-1,3) day 36 (1,2)
AZOTEMIA: 49 mg/dl (after: 62) (range 15-40) day 36 (57)
AMYLASE: 62 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 25-115) day 36 (63)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT: 41 u/ltr (after: 86) (range 30-65) day 36 (66)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST: 21 u/ltr (after: 55) (range 15-37) day 36 (50)
GAMMA (YGT): 28 u/ltr (after: 29) (range 15-85) day 36 (28)

INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml (after: 3,6) (range 1,9-23) day 36 (3,04)
IGF1: (184) (range 96-424) day 36 (163)
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml (after: 0,72) (range 1,75-7,81) day 36 (0,61)
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml (after: 5,2) (range 8-47) day 36 (4,8)
SHBG: 38 pg/ml (after: 10) (range 13-71) day 36 (<0,1)
FSH: 2,92 micru/ml (after: 2,09) (range 1,27-19,26) day 36 (2,56)
LH: 3,80 miu/ml (after: 2,19) (range 1,24-8,62) day 36 (2,58)
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl (after: 209) (range 106-464) day 36 (209,6)
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml (after: <0,1) (range 0,0-10) day 36 (<0,1)

So, my diet have been not so clean from saturated fats in the last 10 days and this could be the explanation for the bad increase of cholesterol LDL, while the HDL remained almost at the same level.
The bilirubins ttl and indirect keep doing their jobs protecting the liver being used by the organism.
I am glad the azotemia went lower and this was due, I think, because I quit drinking those liquid proteins who also made me feel pangs on my lower back just below the right kidney and above the right ilium.
Regarding the transaminases, they both went down closer to the normal range levels.
Both testosterone (ttl and free) kept decreasing while SHBG is gone!
Good news from FHS and LH, which both raised again closer to my normal levels before the cycle being kept both always within the normal ranges.
I read that oxandrolone had to bring up HGH level but in my case it went down.

Any imput is appreciated, as you may know I have no doctor on my back anymore (so far, at least).
Thank you

[BJJ]

Do you guys think a need a pct with those FSH & LH levels?

Before cycle_____________after 18 days____________after 36 days

FSH: 2,92_______________2,09_______________________2,56
LH: 3,80________________2,19_______________________2,58

They are raising back to normal. Is this due to mesterolone (proviron)?
It should not.
Anyway I was thinking of running 2 weeks clomid 50/50.

Any input...

[marcus300]

Are you still on any AAS?

[BJJ]

Yes, still taking 60 mg oxa ed.
I finish my 6th week right today (I'll update my thread tonight) and I feel not so motivated like at the beginning, due to personal staff.
Thank You

[marcus300]

Its not all that bad, some are elevated but they are going to be your on cycle, if your about to come off cycle i dont think you need clomid IMHO, I think Nolva only will do nicely

[BJJ]

Well actually I was thinking to finish the 7th week which starts tomorrow, then running the pct.
So you think nolva 40/20 or 20/20?

[marcus300]

I think something mild like 20/20 will do fine, I dont know how you recover or how well you rebound but I think you should be ok with a mild pct IMHO

[BJJ]

I think something mild like 20/20 will do fine, I dont know how you recover or how well you rebound but I think you should be ok with a mild pct IMHO

I should start the pct just the day after my cycle ends since oxandrolone has an active life of 8/12 hours.
Is that correct?

[BJJ]

Furthermore, why you chose nolva instead of clomid?

[marcus300]

I should start the pct just the day after my cycle ends since oxandrolone has an active life of 8/12 hours.
Is that correct?

Yes start your pct day after your cycle ends, I would just do a nolva pct because var is mild and i dont think you need the clomid/nolva combo, just looking back over your thread I would do 3 weeks of nolva either 20/20/20 or 40/20/20, clomid can have some bad sides and its harsh on your system so with such a mild cycle I dont think you need to go through that, but thats your choice

[BJJ]

Yes start your pct day after your cycle ends, I would just do a nolva pct because var is mild and i dont think you need the clomid/nolva combo, just looking back over your thread I would do 3 weeks of nolva either 20/20/20 or 40/20/20, clomid can have some bad sides and its harsh on your system so with such a mild cycle I dont think you need to go through that, but thats your choice

Thank you marcus.

Something I do not get clear very well is why my LH and FSH did not go down comparing the values to when I was still natural.
While, obviously, testosterone, testosterone free and SHBG decreased severely.

It is like if my organism was "drained" of testosterone from oxandrolone but at the same time my inner glands did not stop producing testosterone.
Is that correct?

In this case, purely and theoretically speaking, a PCT may not be required since LH and FSH still function.
So, my body should be able, in a longer time, to bring all the values related to testosterone back "in shape".
Yet, the possibility of losing the lean mass acquired is a sureness and this is the reason why a PCT, in this specific case, is also a requirement.
Is that correct?

[marcus300]

Thank you marcus.

Something I do not get clear very well is why my LH and FSH did not go down comparing the values to when I was still natural.
While, obviously, testosterone, testosterone free and SHBG decreased severely.

It is like if my organism was "drained" of testosterone from oxandrolone but at the same time my inner glands did not stop producing testosterone.
Is that correct?

In this case, purely and theoretically speaking, a PCT may not be required since LH and FSH still function.
So, my body should be able, in a longer time, to bring all the values related to testosterone back "in shape".
Yet, the possibility of loosing the lean mass acquired is a sureness and this is the reason why a PCT, in this specific case, is also a requirement.
Is that correct?

What was your TTl and free testosterone levels before the cycle?

If you have normal or high levels of LH then your testicles are not responding to the signaling of the leydig cells to produce testosterone, once you stop the var hopefully the surpession will stop, I've seen alot worse Bloodwork so I wouldnt worry IMHO. Your BW is very similar to a friend of mine who only runs nolva and as no problems in bringing back his Test levels even with normal levels of LH.

I dont really know if you could run no PCT and gain back your full test levels, I am sure in time you would be able to but along side muscle loss and a few other sides.

[BJJ]

What was your TTl and free testosterone levels before the cycle?

If you have normal or high levels of LH then your testicles are not responding to the signaling of the leydig cells to produce testosterone, once you stop the var hopefully the surpession will stop, I've seen alot worse Bloodwork so I wouldnt worry IMHO. Your BW is very similar to a friend of mine who only runs nolva and as no problems in bringing back his Test levels even with normal levels of LH.

I dont really know if you could run no PCT and gain back your full test levels, I am sure in time you would be able to but along side muscle loss and a few other sides.

So what you are saying is that it is not good to have LH in normal ranges while on cycle.

INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml [1,9 - 23]
CORTISOL: 12,53 mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]
HTG: 7,65 ng/ml [0,0 - 35]
PRL: 9,88 ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]
FT3: 3,48 pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]
FT4: 1,26 ng/dl [0,8 - 2]
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml [8 - 47]
SHBG: 38 pg/ml [13 - 71]
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: 36 pg/ml [<20 - 47]
PROGESTERONE: 0,93 ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]
FSH: 4,16 miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]
TSH: 2,92 micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]
LH: 3,80 miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]
DHEA: 7,3 ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl [106 - 464]
DHT: 71 ng/ml [31 - 146]
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml [0,0 - 10]

[marcus300]

So what you are saying is that it is not good to have LH in normal ranges while on cycle.

INSULIN: 3,34 micru/ml [1,9 - 23]
CORTISOL: 12,53 mg/dl [8,7 - 22,4]
HTG: 7,65 ng/ml [0,0 - 35]
PRL: 9,88 ng/ml [2,64 - 13,13]
FT3: 3,48 pg/ml [2,2 - 4,7]
FT4: 1,26 ng/dl [0,8 - 2]
TESTOSTERONE TTL: 3,86 ng/ml [1,75 - 7,81]
TESTOSTERONE FREE: 11,7 pg/ml [8 - 47]
SHBG: 38 pg/ml [13 - 71]
ESTRADIOL 17-BETA: 36 pg/ml [<20 - 47]
PROGESTERONE: 0,93 ng/ml [0,14 - 2,06]
FSH: 4,16 miu/ml [1,27 - 19,26]
TSH: 2,92 micru/ml [0,34 - 5,6]
LH: 3,80 miu/ml [1,24 - 8,62]
DHEA: 7,3 ng/ml [2,5 - 9,5]
DHEAS: 191 mcg/dl [106 - 464]
DHT: 71 ng/ml [31 - 146]
HGH: 0,2 ng/ml [0,0 - 10]

No not at all, its better than low test, low LH and completely shutdown isnt it

[Swifto]

Var is a wierd compound. In some clincial data, low doses can severly effect the HPTA. Supressing both LH, FSH and T.

I dont think Var has had a direct effect on the testes, although it may have done. We still dont know how many of the compounds we use interact with the HPTA fully. I'd say the decline in T is from the lowered LH, FSH Var had in the first 20-25 days, then LH seemed to recover. LH dropped nearly 40% after 18days, thats a fair bit IMHO. Thats why your T has been lowered.

But your BW is very interesting.

[Swifto]

Var is bad on the lipids aswell.

It didnt raise IGF also, thats intresting.

It proves how much it reduces SHBG though. Thats quite a decrease. Data states Var reduces SHBG, this just confirms it.

Did you have any liver function tests?

[marcus300]

Var is a wierd compound. In some clincial data, low doses can severly effect the HPTA. Supressing both LH, FSH and T.

I dont think Var has had a direct effect on the testes, although it may have done. We still dont know how many of the compounds we use interact with the HPTA fully. I'd say the decline in T is from the lowered LH, FSH Var had in the first 20-25 days, then LH seemed to recover. LH dropped nearly 40% after 18days, thats a fair bit IMHO. Thats why your T has been lowered.

But your BW is very interesting.

I agree, its strange how his LH started to come back up to his normal level while on cycle. You thinking the same as me with regards to a weak PCT like nolva only because of his LH level?

[Swifto]

I agree, its strange how his LH started to come back up to his normal level while on cycle. You thinking the same as me with regards to a weak PCT like nolva only because of his LH level?

Yup.

2-3 weeks 20mg/ED.

[BJJ]

I dont think Var has had a direct effect on the testes, although it may have done. We still dont know how many of the compounds we use interact with the HPTA fully. I'd say the decline in T is from the lowered LH, FSH Var had in the first 20-25 days, then LH seemed to recover. LH dropped nearly 40% after 18days, thats a fair bit IMHO. Thats why your T has been lowered.

I agree, its strange how his LH started to come back up to his normal level while on cycle. You thinking the same as me with regards to a weak PCT like nolva only because of his LH level?

Couldn't be due to the fact I added proviron at day 26? 50 mg ed and since then I always took it?

[BJJ]

Var is bad on the lipids aswell.

It didnt raise IGF also, thats intresting.

It proves how much it reduces SHBG though. Thats quite a decrease. Data states Var reduces SHBG, this just confirms it.

Did you have any liver function tests?

_________________________before________18________36

CHOLESTEROL TTL_________168__________179_______205 (range 140-220)
CHOLESTEROL HDL__________41___________13________11 (range >=40)
INDEX RISK HDL____________4,1_________13,76______19,2 (range till 5)
CHOLESTEROL LDL__________105__________157_______199 (range 130-159, elevated borderline, day 18) (range >190, very elevated, day 36)
BILIRUBIN TTL__________1,98_________0,83______0,78 (range 0,2-1)
BILIRUBIN DIRECT_______0,22__________0,1_________0,1 (range 0,05-0,3)
BILIRUBIN INDIRECT_____1,76_________0,73________0,68 (range till 0,7)
CREATININE_______________1,2___________1,2________ _1,2 (range 0,8-1,3)
AZOTEMIA________________49____________62__________ 57 (range 15-40)
AMYLASE_________________62____________55__________ 63 (range 25-115)
TRANSAMINASE GPT/ALT__41__________86__________66 (range 30-65)
TRANSAMINASE GOT/AST_ 21___________55__________50 (range 15-37)
GAMMA (YGT)___________28___________29__________28 (range 15-85)

[BJJ]

Can someone be more stupid than me? I guess NOT!!!

This morning instead of ingesting 30 mg oxandrolone (3 tabs) and 25 mg mesterolone (1 tab) I took CLOMID.
They have the same blister, so I took 150 mg of it and I wondered why I was having a sort of diarrhea during this morning.

I took now 40 mg oxa and 25 mes.
At dinner, I'll take the last 20 mg of oxa.

[Hazard]

BJJ thanks for posting this up - it's very interesting. I took a brief look at it yesterday but had to run...... I havn't been in your other thread yet but if you wouldn't mind..... how much have you gained running var alone?

~Haz~

[BJJ]

These are the results (day 35) from my previous weight data which I took after 16 days and there reached back my previous best natural limit but with less fat on, so I did not consider those gains.

Body Weigth: 98,9 kg (217,6 lbs) +4,66%
Body Fat: 14,6% +4,29%
Water: 63,8% +0,31%
Estimated Muscle Mass: 80,3 kg (170,6 lbs) +3,88%

[Swifto]

Var seems failry hepatoxic too, although those arnt high levels. I used Tbol at 80mg/ED for 14 weeks and got above 100 AST. I also consumed the odd alcoholic drink.

[marcus300]

Var seems failry hepatoxic too, although those arnt high levels. I used Tbol at 80mg/ED for 14 weeks and got above 100 AST. I also consumed the odd alcoholic drink.

Weren't you on WKD's down the park with your mates?

[BJJ]

Var seems failry hepatoxic too, although those arnt high levels. I used Tbol at 80mg/ED for 14 weeks and got above 100 AST. I also consumed the odd alcoholic drink.

14 weeks are a lot, why so long?

[BJJ]

Couldn't be due to the fact I added proviron at day 26? 50 mg ed and since then I always took it?

no clues...

[Swifto]

Weren't you on WKD's down the park with your mates?

Those were the days. Long time ago for you though, right?

14 weeks are a lot, why so long?

My AST/lipids were fine, so I kept on increasing the dose as I went on.

[BJJ]

.....