Looking for First Cycle - Winstrol ?

[bobryan]

Im looking to do first cycle of oral win. I know injectables are safer for the liver, but I prefer oral and I am not looking to inject. I know I need the livercare, milk thistle, and I take stuff for joints now as well before hand. I am an experienced lifter, and Im strong IMO for someone who has not taken anything before. My bench max is 275, cant seem to get past that, I can do 225 for 9 for a max set. My deadlift is 525 lbs at 175 BW (triple BW). MY box squat is 400. I know how to lift and eat right. Im just trying to get faster and more explosive, including cut get a faster 40 time, Im at a 4.75 now , looking to be at a 4.65 or better. MY body fat is 10.5% but Im not really cut. Any advice would be great

[austinite]

Welcome.

At your age, you already have tons of testosterone flowing through your body. You need to take advantage of that. Using AAS now will shut your natural production down and may cause long term damage to your endocrine system, possibly resulting with Erectile Dysfunction, the need for going on TRT for life, and a host of other concerns.

It's in your best interest to wait until youre 25. Use that time to fix your diet and training routine.

If you insist, you can try the alternatives provided here: http://www.buysteroids.com/ , simply follow instructions on the bottles.

Best of luck to you.

[Metalject]

I ran a Winstrol only cycle when I was around 20yrs old. Definitely got stronger, nothing tremendous but it was significant enough. This was at a low dose too, 25mg every other day for 7 or 8wks...can't remember exactly. Anyway, it wasn't anything to write home about or anything like that but it did provide a boost.

Now everyone will say you should always include exogenous testosterone when using Winstrol, I tend to agree. It will suppress your natural testosterone production, not completely but significantly. Will it be the end of the world if you don't? I seriously doubt it. A healthy adult male who has normal testosterone levels should be able to recover his levels after a Winstrol or Anavar only cycle...it will take a few months though. It is also something I wouldn't make a habit of...a lot of athletes do it, a whole lot but there are better options.

As for your age, 20 is a little young. I don't subscribe to the 25yr old mantra some preach, there's nothing magical about that number and it's unrealistic for some people depending on their situation in life. However, based on what you said in your post I don't see you falling into that category. Yes, I did it, my first cycle was EQ only, then Winstrol only and then EQ and Winstrol...three cycles over the period of about 12 months. Wasn't the end of the world by any means but in retrospect I could have approached things differently.

[Lunk1]

I ran a Winstrol only cycle when I was around 20yrs old. Definitely got stronger, nothing tremendous but it was significant enough. This was at a low dose too, 25mg every other day for 7 or 8wks...can't remember exactly. Anyway, it wasn't anything to write home about or anything like that but it did provide a boost.

Now everyone will say you should always include exogenous testosterone when using Winstrol, I tend to agree. It will suppress your natural testosterone production, not completely but significantly. Will it be the end of the world if you don't? I seriously doubt it. A healthy adult male who has normal testosterone levels should be able to recover his levels after a Winstrol or Anavar only cycle...it will take a few months though. It is also something I wouldn't make a habit of...a lot of athletes do it, a whole lot but there are better options.

As for your age, 20 is a little young. I don't subscribe to the 25yr old mantra some preach, there's nothing magical about that number and it's unrealistic for some people depending on their situation in life. However, based on what you said in your post I don't see you falling into that category. Yes, I did it, my first cycle was EQ only, then Winstrol only and then EQ and Winstrol...three cycles over the period of about 12 months. Wasn't the end of the world by any means but in retrospect I could have approached things differently.

What on gods green earth is going through your head my man. This is simply an irresponsible post by a KID who is not thinking about your health. Metel I have said before that you are no doubt knowledgable but that doesn't mean this is appropriate.

[MuscleInk]

Austinite is correct. Orals are simply a bad choice at any age. Milk Thistle won't provide the protection you think it will, you only get one liver, you can't live without it, and liver transplants aren't possible. The potential side effects at your age are considerable and include the following:

SHORT TERM SIDE EFFECTS

The short term, more immediate side effects of steroid abuse are a veritable buffet of problems. Let's start with the men. Acne, testicular atrophy, decreased sperm count, gynecomastia (enlarged breasts in men), high blood pressure, increased LDL (bad) cholesterol, decreased HDL (good) cholesterol, fluid retention, abnormal liver function, and prostate enlargement, just to name a few.

SHRUNKEN TESTICLES

Testicular atrophy, a fancy term for shrunken balls, isn't just a cosmetic problem. Because an outside source of testosterone is being introduced to the body, the testes no longer get the signal to produce their share. The brain is also being told to slow down the sperm factory, and that the body is getting sperm from an outside source, usually the hypodermic needle. The brain then sends a signal back to the testicles to take a break. This new function can cause temporary sterility, and the jury is still out on whether steroids are linked with permanent sterility or not. But why take the chance?

LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS:

STUNTED GROWTH

Studies have shown that adolescents who abuse steroids are at risk of being short for life. Because the body responds to puberty by slowing and eventually stopping growth, the pubescent period of life is crucial to future development. When the adolescent brain senses a certain level of hormones in the body, it will send messages to the bones to stop growing, closing the growth plates in the long bones. Young male abusers can expect to be permanently shorter than average height

NEUROLOGICAL ISSUES

Studies have confirmed steroid abuse has a long term effect on the neurological pathways of the brain. Depending on the age when steroids are taken, the effects can sometimes be permanent. For example, abusing steroids in the teenage years of development has shown to affect the brain's ability to properly produce serotonin, the enzyme tied with our sense of well-being. This tampering with serotonin can lead to permanent increases in depression and aggression. In women, this hormonal tampering can also lead to significantly lower levels of progesterone and estrogen, potentially upsetting the delicate balance of female chemistry and inducing severe anxiety and depression.

[Metalject]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

[Lunk1]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

and AIDS patience but thats because the good out weighs the bad. There is no good ou weighing the bad when it comes to kids using AAS as a rec drug

[Metalject]

Lunk....I simply answered the question at hand. So many of the post on this board never answer any questions...just telling someone they're too young doesn't accomplish anything. And telling someone outright that they will absolutely ruin their natural testosterone production for the rest of their life just because they're under 25, well this is just a lie or ignorance...either way it's not a good answer. The steroid in question affects this answer as does the issue of individuality. Does that mean I'm encouraging a 20yr old to use steroids? No it has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging...it's simply answering a question.

As for the stunted growth comments...my comments were simply stated because the claim holds no absolute proof. Further, as it is merely a theory and not a fact, there's really no reason for using that argument when it comes to adolescent use...there are other, stronger arguments.

I guess my main thing is, I don't care for post's of any kind that do nothing to promote the evolution of understanding for the individual or that use half-truths to promote an opinion even if it's with the best intentions.

[Lunk1]

Lunk....I simply answered the question at hand. So many of the post on this board never answer any questions...just telling someone they're too young doesn't accomplish anything. And telling someone outright that they will absolutely ruin their natural testosterone production for the rest of their life just because they're under 25, well this is just a lie or ignorance...either way it's not a good answer. The steroid in question affects this answer as does the issue of individuality. Does that mean I'm encouraging a 20yr old to use steroids? No it has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging...it's simply answering a question.

As for the stunted growth comments...my comments were simply stated because the claim holds no absolute proof. Further, as it is merely a theory and not a fact, there's really no reason for using that argument when it comes to adolescent use...there are other, stronger arguments.

I guess my main thing is, I don't care for post's of any kind that do nothing to promote the evolution of understanding for the individual or that use half-truths to promote an opinion even if it's with the best intentions.

I feel like we or I have been here before. It's not that you info is bad. I think I have said before that I understand your point about giving the info that is asked for. When dealing with kids..and that's what we are talking about, any advice on the proper use of AAS WILL undoubtedly be taken as a green light to do what they are considering in the first place.

I have seen threads like this where EVERY post is telling some 19 yo that AAS at his age is bad idea and then one post that says mentions a proper cycle or answers the question directly is all it takes for the kid to completely disregard solid advise on the fact he should NOT use steroids at his age.

We are talking about kids who's decision making proccess is no more developed than their endo system. Again I am not nor do I believe I have ever said your advise isn't solid and very well layed out. I just think that you might better serve some of these kids by avoiding giving them steroid info at all or at the very lest telling them simply WHY it is not in their best interest.

I know I have posted this before as well and I think it has served as a great analogy: If an 18 yo kid came on here looking for suicide advise would you offer advise on how and where to place the gun and what the best ammo is just because you want him to nhave the facts and answer his questions directly.I am positive you would not...instead you would tell him not to do mit and maybe offer advise on other things he could do to deal with whatever issue he was dealing with.

[Metalject]

I feel like we or I have been here before. It's not that you info is bad. I think I have said before that I understand your point about giving the info that is asked for. When dealing with kids..and that's what we are talking about, any advice on the proper use of AAS WILL undoubtedly be taken as a green light to do what they are considering in the first place.

I have seen threads like this where EVERY post is telling some 19 yo that AAS at his age is bad idea and then one post that says mentions a proper cycle or answers the question directly is all it takes for the kid to completely disregard solid advise on the fact he should NOT use steroids at his age.

We are talking about kids who's decision making proccess is no more developed than their endo system. Again I am not nor do I believe I have ever said your advise isn't solid and very well layed out. I just think that you might better serve some of these kids by avoiding giving them steroid info at all or at the very lest telling them simply WHY it is not in their best interest.

I know I have posted this before as well and I think it has served as a great analogy: If an 18 yo kid came on here looking for suicide advise would you offer advise on how and where to place the gun and what the best ammo is just because you want him to nhave the facts and answer his questions directly.I am positive you would not...instead you would tell him not to do mit and maybe offer advise on other things he could do to deal with whatever issue he was dealing with.

Not quite the same thing....taking steroids isn't going to kill the guy. I understand your point, but this isn't comparing apples to apples.

Anyway, I've said this before too, explaining something to someone is not the same as encouraging them to use something. It's just not....it's not even close. Explaining to someone how a car engine works isn't encoring them to jump in and drive if they're only 13yrs old. In my opinion, it's just better to answer questions directly. I didn't lay out cycle advise or anything like that...I never said, you should do this and that, take these steroids, these SERM's inject HGH on these days etc. etc.

Last thing, I like this board, but like a lot of boards it has a tendency to become arrogant in spite of itself. Basic ideas and opinions get passed around so much that they become "board fact" regardless of them being facts or not. In many ways, steroid message boards are as guilty as anti-steroid people when it comes to basing advice on emotions. This also tends to take away from the purpose of a steroid message board. Think about it...what are the most common replies to most threads? Look at the stickies, do more research, you just need a test cycle and you're too young so I'm not going to explain things to you. I'd bet a million dollars that this represents nearly half the responses on this message board...maybe more. And that raises the most important question of all? If these are the overwhelming replies, why even have a message board? Just make the main page a few stickies, and then have off-topic sections....see my point?

[MuscleInk]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

Correct and it was a comment on potential side effects in general not specific to winstrol.

Moreover, while there are certainly clinic applications of winstrol and other anabolic agents in infectious diseases and oncology, this is most certainly NOT the case in this instance.

Lastly, for many younger guys a discussion of the potential risks to the endocrine system is meaningless unless you draw a direct connection to the behavioral and physical sequela of endocrine impairment/dysfunction.

Your points are well laid out but the emphasis should be on the significant risks to people of his age messing around with compounds they know little about.

[austinite]

I cant see who you guys are quoting, apparently on my ignore list. But anyone offering advice to an 18 year old, as lunk said is a complete idiot. No wonder my ignore list is getting huge. The only thing you need to educate kids on, are the risks and show them how to eat and train. That's it.

[warmouth]

Ha ha Austinite! And Lunk, why have you not moved up the ranks yet?

[Lunk1]

Ha ha Austinite! And Lunk, why have you not moved up the ranks yet?

Apparently there is a theory going around that I am RUDE!!!

[Shsm]

Apparently there is a theory going around that I am RUDE!!!

You are rude

[Lunk1]

You are rude

Again it's only a theory and has not been proven!!

[Awesome_Archy]

Apparently there is a theory going around that I am RUDE!!!

haha rude or honest?

[Lunk1]

haha rude or honest?

it gets confusing even for me sometiimes

[Lunk1]

Hey OP...I apologize for jacking this thread...hopefully you leave here with some good info and stick around cause there are good ppl with good info like Austin and Metel...and that old bastard Ink

[MuscleInk]

Hey OP...I apologize for jacking this thread...hopefully you leave here with some good info and stick around cause there are good ppl with good info like Austin and Metel...and that old bastard Ink

I heard that.....lucky for you I had my glasses on and my hearing aid in!

[songdog]

Just for the record we are suppose to be trying to stop under age kids from using aas.And while you Metaljet did some off the wall cycles and didnt have any problems.Through the years I have seen kids do a lot lets say not as dumb.Like Var only cycles and develope ED.So I have to say your approach to helping sway kids away from aas use isnt very good.You sound like you are giving them the go ahead.And that isnt wat we are about here.I think we do a pretty good job at trying to stop the young kids.So lets get with the program and help or dont say nothing at all.No disrespect intented.

[austinite]

Just for the record we are suppose to be trying to stop under age kids from using aas.And while you Metaljet did some off the wall cycles and didnt have any problems.Through the years I have seen kids do a lot lets say not as dumb.Like Var only cycles and develope ED.So I have to say your approach to helping sway kids away from aas use isnt very good.You sound like you are giving them the go ahead.And that isnt wat we are about here.I think we do a pretty good job at trying to stop the young kids.So lets get with the program and help or dont say nothing at all.No disrespect intented.

As always, well said, songdog!

[Metalject]

Ha, ignore list^^^^What a tool. I can honestly say after years of posting on message boards and I'm talking all the way back when all that was available was sites you had to pay to post on, I have never seen another person who gets their panties in a wad so easily or so fast like this guy. Nor have I ever seen anyone who parrots more than anyone I've ever come across, whose answer to everything is test only cycles and PCT, take butt loads of AI's and simply racks up countless post a day all by saying absolutely nothing at all. Yes, I know he obviously can't see this post but after years and years of board posting this is the first guy I've ever come across who truly gets under my skin.

[Lunk1]

Ha, ignore list^^^^What a tool. I can honestly say after years of posting on message boards and I'm talking all the way back when all that was available was sites you had to pay to post on, I have never seen another person who gets their panties in a wad so easily or so fast like this guy. Nor have I ever seen anyone who parrots more than anyone I've ever come across, whose answer to everything is test only cycles and PCT, take butt loads of AI's and simply racks up countless post a day all by saying absolutely nothing at all. Yes, I know he obviously can't see this post but after years and years of board posting this is the first guy I've ever come across who truly gets under my skin.

Go take a look at Austinits upcoming cycle in the member cycle section. This is not a parrot talking this is an educated man who knows what he is talking about. I can see where the "parroting" comments come from becuase so many keep saying the same things over and over and over. BUT, is it possible, that it is because it REALLY IS the best advise. It's seems there are some who like to go against the grain if you will just to rattle the parrot feathers. I hope thats not the case here.

I for one love the informative answers you give...I just think that timing is a little off.

[Rwy]

I have to give you guys credit to keep plugging away to the young bucks that post on here about doing aas too early or maybe you need a hobby lol

[warmouth]

I do believe the timing is a bit off here. I love the sound answers from experience, but to inform an 18 year old directly is off, to me that is. And the parroting is truth,and that is why it is preached here. We all want people to be safe, and especially first timers who throw out a crappy first cycle. They tend to avoid stickys and ask direct. All they have to do is literally 30 seconds of research and have exactly what they need, no matter the age they are. They just ask for what they get by ignoring the detailed stickys and hope someone will feed from the spoon. It just shouldnt be that easy. And winny alone is not wise, unless a person is on TRT anyways, which could bring up the case that Test could in theory, never be used, other than what is prescribed. I am in no way bashing, and I love havingsomeone whohas vast knowledge onhere. It is great to read from actual experience. But you even said you would not recommend runnning winny alone, but you said you did at 20, and more likely than not, thats all the kid got from your detailed post. And that is because he saw exaclty what he wanted to see and then move on. Kids haveno business asking cycle advice at all. They have sticky from members far more experienced than half of us who are actively posting. And I do believ that is why the "big dogs" stay away from it for the most part because it is basically advice that we should but on auto-pilot. It is repetitive, and I am sure everyone is tired of "parroting" the same old stuff. But these kids dont read other posts or stickys,which is all they would need to do. I am of age, on TRT, andlove to get advice from people. But I am of age, fairly mature, and understandmy body. So People like me can come here and get sound advice, they way it should be. I want to try masteron, but I amtrying my best not to clutter this up because of the crapload of kids askingabout DBol only, Winnyonly, Anadrol only, etc. Marcus,Bonaparte, StPete and the other mods have spent so much timeand effort into stickys and details posts, that no one should have a basic question like winny only or first cycle advice. Itsall here if they would just look. Thats my 2.00 worth. Nothing against you because I feel you do know your stuff. It isjust a bit ill timed is all I think. Thanks for all of your knowledge though. It has helped me alot!

[bobryan]

im not sure why some people said im 18..im 21 about to be 22 soon. Yes I know that is still young, but I am not some high school kid

[songdog]

Has nothing to do with that.Your endo system isnt fully developed.And doing aas can cause serious problems.Like ED and it dont end there.