Looking for First Cycle - Winstrol ?

[Metalject]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

[Lunk1]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

and AIDS patience but thats because the good out weighs the bad. There is no good ou weighing the bad when it comes to kids using AAS as a rec drug

[Metalject]

Lunk....I simply answered the question at hand. So many of the post on this board never answer any questions...just telling someone they're too young doesn't accomplish anything. And telling someone outright that they will absolutely ruin their natural testosterone production for the rest of their life just because they're under 25, well this is just a lie or ignorance...either way it's not a good answer. The steroid in question affects this answer as does the issue of individuality. Does that mean I'm encouraging a 20yr old to use steroids? No it has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging...it's simply answering a question.

As for the stunted growth comments...my comments were simply stated because the claim holds no absolute proof. Further, as it is merely a theory and not a fact, there's really no reason for using that argument when it comes to adolescent use...there are other, stronger arguments.

I guess my main thing is, I don't care for post's of any kind that do nothing to promote the evolution of understanding for the individual or that use half-truths to promote an opinion even if it's with the best intentions.

[Lunk1]

Lunk....I simply answered the question at hand. So many of the post on this board never answer any questions...just telling someone they're too young doesn't accomplish anything. And telling someone outright that they will absolutely ruin their natural testosterone production for the rest of their life just because they're under 25, well this is just a lie or ignorance...either way it's not a good answer. The steroid in question affects this answer as does the issue of individuality. Does that mean I'm encouraging a 20yr old to use steroids? No it has nothing to do with encouraging or discouraging...it's simply answering a question.

As for the stunted growth comments...my comments were simply stated because the claim holds no absolute proof. Further, as it is merely a theory and not a fact, there's really no reason for using that argument when it comes to adolescent use...there are other, stronger arguments.

I guess my main thing is, I don't care for post's of any kind that do nothing to promote the evolution of understanding for the individual or that use half-truths to promote an opinion even if it's with the best intentions.

I feel like we or I have been here before. It's not that you info is bad. I think I have said before that I understand your point about giving the info that is asked for. When dealing with kids..and that's what we are talking about, any advice on the proper use of AAS WILL undoubtedly be taken as a green light to do what they are considering in the first place.

I have seen threads like this where EVERY post is telling some 19 yo that AAS at his age is bad idea and then one post that says mentions a proper cycle or answers the question directly is all it takes for the kid to completely disregard solid advise on the fact he should NOT use steroids at his age.

We are talking about kids who's decision making proccess is no more developed than their endo system. Again I am not nor do I believe I have ever said your advise isn't solid and very well layed out. I just think that you might better serve some of these kids by avoiding giving them steroid info at all or at the very lest telling them simply WHY it is not in their best interest.

I know I have posted this before as well and I think it has served as a great analogy: If an 18 yo kid came on here looking for suicide advise would you offer advise on how and where to place the gun and what the best ammo is just because you want him to nhave the facts and answer his questions directly.I am positive you would not...instead you would tell him not to do mit and maybe offer advise on other things he could do to deal with whatever issue he was dealing with.

[Metalject]

I feel like we or I have been here before. It's not that you info is bad. I think I have said before that I understand your point about giving the info that is asked for. When dealing with kids..and that's what we are talking about, any advice on the proper use of AAS WILL undoubtedly be taken as a green light to do what they are considering in the first place.

I have seen threads like this where EVERY post is telling some 19 yo that AAS at his age is bad idea and then one post that says mentions a proper cycle or answers the question directly is all it takes for the kid to completely disregard solid advise on the fact he should NOT use steroids at his age.

We are talking about kids who's decision making proccess is no more developed than their endo system. Again I am not nor do I believe I have ever said your advise isn't solid and very well layed out. I just think that you might better serve some of these kids by avoiding giving them steroid info at all or at the very lest telling them simply WHY it is not in their best interest.

I know I have posted this before as well and I think it has served as a great analogy: If an 18 yo kid came on here looking for suicide advise would you offer advise on how and where to place the gun and what the best ammo is just because you want him to nhave the facts and answer his questions directly.I am positive you would not...instead you would tell him not to do mit and maybe offer advise on other things he could do to deal with whatever issue he was dealing with.

Not quite the same thing....taking steroids isn't going to kill the guy. I understand your point, but this isn't comparing apples to apples.

Anyway, I've said this before too, explaining something to someone is not the same as encouraging them to use something. It's just not....it's not even close. Explaining to someone how a car engine works isn't encoring them to jump in and drive if they're only 13yrs old. In my opinion, it's just better to answer questions directly. I didn't lay out cycle advise or anything like that...I never said, you should do this and that, take these steroids, these SERM's inject HGH on these days etc. etc.

Last thing, I like this board, but like a lot of boards it has a tendency to become arrogant in spite of itself. Basic ideas and opinions get passed around so much that they become "board fact" regardless of them being facts or not. In many ways, steroid message boards are as guilty as anti-steroid people when it comes to basing advice on emotions. This also tends to take away from the purpose of a steroid message board. Think about it...what are the most common replies to most threads? Look at the stickies, do more research, you just need a test cycle and you're too young so I'm not going to explain things to you. I'd bet a million dollars that this represents nearly half the responses on this message board...maybe more. And that raises the most important question of all? If these are the overwhelming replies, why even have a message board? Just make the main page a few stickies, and then have off-topic sections....see my point?

[Lunk1]

Not quite the same thing....taking steroids isn't going to kill the guy. I understand your point, but this isn't comparing apples to apples.

Anyway, I've said this before too, explaining something to someone is not the same as encouraging them to use something. It's just not....it's not even close. Explaining to someone how a car engine works isn't encoring them to jump in and drive if they're only 13yrs old. In my opinion, it's just better to answer questions directly. I didn't lay out cycle advise or anything like that...I never said, you should do this and that, take these steroids, these SERM's inject HGH on these days etc. etc.

Last thing, I like this board, but like a lot of boards it has a tendency to become arrogant in spite of itself. Basic ideas and opinions get passed around so much that they become "board fact" regardless of them being facts or not. In many ways, steroid message boards are as guilty as anti-steroid people when it comes to basing advice on emotions. This also tends to take away from the purpose of a steroid message board. Think about it...what are the most common replies to most threads? Look at the stickies, do more research, you just need a test cycle and you're too young so I'm not going to explain things to you. I'd bet a million dollars that this represents nearly half the responses on this message board...maybe more. And that raises the most important question of all? If these are the overwhelming replies, why even have a message board? Just make the main page a few stickies, and then have off-topic sections....see my point?

Can you PROVE it wont result in serious health issues including possible death??? I understand my analogy is a bit over the top but that was the point. I think someday if and when you have kids you will see my point. Expalining to a kid how an engine works isn't going to make them drive it. Telling them HOW to drive when the do hit 16 WILL put the thought of doing it now in their head. It;s just how kids work.

There are alot of things I did as a teenager I would NEVER tell my daughter I did. Why? Because to a kid it's the same thing as giving them permission!!!

As far as the board goes. Of course it sounds like a broken friggin record all day...but every so often there is that one kid who says "thank you, I see now this is a bad idea and I am going to get my diet and workout straight first" and then it makes outting up with the same old"tell me cause I'm going to do it anyway" spoiled bratz worth putting up with.

[Metalject]

Can you PROVE it wont result in serious health issues including possible death??? I understand my analogy is a bit over the top but that was the point. I think someday if and when you have kids you will see my point. Expalining to a kid how an engine works isn't going to make them drive it. Telling them HOW to drive when the do hit 16 WILL put the thought of doing it now in their head. It;s just how kids work.

There are alot of things I did as a teenager I would NEVER tell my daughter I did. Why? Because to a kid it's the same thing as giving them permission!!!

As far as the board goes. Of course it sounds like a broken friggin record all day...but every so often there is that one kid who says "thank you, I see now this is a bad idea and I am going to get my diet and workout straight first" and then it makes outting up with the same old"tell me cause I'm going to do it anyway" spoiled bratz worth putting up with.

Prove it? Absolutely....with nearly 100 years of steroid use behind us there has yet to be a single recorded death directly linked to steroid use. There are many good arguments for not using steroids when you're young and while adolescent use is a bad idea one thing I can't stand is adding in reasons that are not true. You're not going to die if you use some testosterone or Dbol at 18 or 20yrs old. Doesn't make it a good idea...repeating that just to clarify.

[MuscleInk]

Long term side effects: stunted growth - there's never been any concrete data to prove this. There are theories but it is not concrete. I'm not stating this to imply adolescent use is a good idea. You have to keep in mind too, anabolic steroids are sometimes given to adolescents with growth deficiencies. There have been anabolic steroid trials that have accelerated growth in children. However, the damage to the endocrine system, this is the real concern when it comes to adolescents IMO.

Correct and it was a comment on potential side effects in general not specific to winstrol.

Moreover, while there are certainly clinic applications of winstrol and other anabolic agents in infectious diseases and oncology, this is most certainly NOT the case in this instance.

Lastly, for many younger guys a discussion of the potential risks to the endocrine system is meaningless unless you draw a direct connection to the behavioral and physical sequela of endocrine impairment/dysfunction.

Your points are well laid out but the emphasis should be on the significant risks to people of his age messing around with compounds they know little about.