For starters....

[kid tastic1]

I have been doing a lot of reading about all the different kinds of steroids and such. I am not planning on jumping to conclusions without doing my homework like i have read throughout various posts. I am 24 and 5'11. I was just curious to what most people would say a good first cycle would be. I have read many people using d-bol and tren in their first cycle and have read that they are not suppose to. I don't want to look like a dumbass or rush into something i would know nothing about. So the main questions is what would be the best cycle for a first time beginner and so on. Thanks for the help guys.

[Sfla80]

I'm sure vets will chime in, but first please don't use tren as a first cycle. There are threads at the top of this page. Find "beginners cycle" read up on that.

Lot more research to do. A lot of knowledgeable people to help to, if u put in the research yourself.

[MickeyKnox]

Test only for a beginners cycle, to determine the effects on your system. You don't want to complicate the cycle in case you have an adverse side effect or reaction. You can add an oral on the next one.

This is a typical beginners cycle including PCT.

wk 1-12 500mg test e 2/wk @ 250mg every 3.5 days
wk 1-12 aromisin 12.5mg eod and monitor sides
wk 3-14.5 hCG 250iu 2/wk day before test injections

wk 15-19 pct
clomid 75/50/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20

Whats your diet look like? BF%?

[boxa06]

I have been doing a lot of reading about all the different kinds of steroids and such. I am not planning on jumping to conclusions without doing my homework like i have read throughout various posts. I am 24 and 5'11. I was just curious to what most people would say a good first cycle would be. I have read many people using d-bol and tren in their first cycle and have read that they are not suppose to. I don't want to look like a dumbass or rush into something i would know nothing about. So the main questions is what would be the best cycle for a first time beginner and so on. Thanks for the help guys.

Welcome

You sound sensible which is good. The recommended cycle for a beginner is a Test only cycle preferably a long ester like Test E, Test C or Sust so the beginner can become familiar with injecting. Furthermore the beginner will understand how Test effects them as it is the base of all cycles. The recommended dose is usually 400-500mgs per week split into 2 injections per week (200-250mgs per shot). Beginners should have an AI on hand in case they run into sides and a solid PCT planned usually Tamox and Clomid. HCG on cycle is also highly recommended.

All this is well and good but we also recommend a solid base of training and nutrition before use of AAS.

Wow I sound smart

[boxa06]

..... and of course Mickey beat my by .0003636 of a second LOL

[Sworder]

Everybody should be a VET in the gym before becoming a BEGINNER in the steroid world.

Post your stats brother! What is your diet like?

[t-dogg]

Test only for a beginners cycle, to determine the effects on your system. You don't want to complicate the cycle in case you have an adverse side effect or reaction. You can add an oral on the next one.

This is a typical beginners cycle including PCT.

wk 1-12 500mg test e 2/wk @ 250mg every 3.5 days
wk 1-12 aromisin 12.5mg eod and monitor sides
wk 3-14.5 hCG 250iu 2/wk day before test injections

wk 15-19 pct
clomid 75/50/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20

Whats your diet look like? BF%?

Pretty much this.

[MickeyKnox]

..... and of course Mickey beat my by .0003636 of a second LOL

Im Clint Eastwood with the keyboard. lol

Everybody should be a VET in the gym and the kitchen before becoming a BEGINNER in the steroid world.

Post your stats brother! What is your diet like?

Fantastic! I like that quote. But I fixed it for ya

[boxa06]

Im Clint Eastwood with the keyboard. lol

Maybe your net is faster :P

That is a pretty good quote.. Even better with the kitchen part lol

[Metalject]

A test only cycle is always a good bet for a first cycle. A lot of people say it's a good call because it let's you gauge a response but nearly any adult male on earth will have a good response...it's just testosterone, it's not a hormone you're body is unfamiliar with in any way. Bumping your testosterone levels up should give most anyone good results.

Now some will disagree with this and that's fine, but I see no problem in adding an oral like Dianabol or Anavar to a first cycle along with testosterone. A healthy adult should be able to gauge and control a stack like this very easily, however, adding one of those orals is by no means a necessity.

[Lunk1]

Welcome

You sound sensible which is good. The recommended cycle for a beginner is a Test only cycle preferably a long ester like Test E, Test C or Sust so the beginner can become familiar with injecting. Furthermore the beginner will understand how Test effects them as it is the base of all cycles. The recommended dose is usually 400-500mgs per week split into 2 injections per week (200-250mgs per shot). EVERYONE should USE an AI and a solid PCT planned usually Tamox and Clomid. HCG on cycle is also highly recommended.

All this is well and good but we also recommend a solid base of training and nutrition before use of AAS.

Wow I sound smart

Boxa..now you sound even smarter lol

[boxa06]

A test only cycle is always a good bet for a first cycle. A lot of people say it's a good call because it let's you gauge a response but nearly any adult male on earth will have a good response...it's just testosterone, it's not a hormone you're body is unfamiliar with in any way. Bumping your testosterone levels up should give most anyone good results.

Now some will disagree with this and that's fine, but I see no problem in adding an oral like Dianabol or Anavar to a first cycle along with testosterone. A healthy adult should be able to gauge and control a stack like this very easily, however, adding one of those orals is by no means a necessity.

I only disagree because.. Say it's week 3 and you break out in acne, which compound is doing it?

Don't mean to offend, just putting a view across

[boxa06]

Boxa..now you sound even smarter lol

Ok bro you go me LOL I stand corrected.. EVERYONE should have an AI on hand!

[Lunk1]

Ok bro you go me LOL I stand corrected.. EVERYONE should have an AI on hand!

ARggggggg

[Sworder]

I only disagree because.. Say it's week 3 and you break out in acne, which compound is doing it?

Don't mean to offend, just putting a view across

The androgen is Dianabol/testosterone act in the same way, androgens that aromatase. We are here everyday to help him if there was any problems either way. But I share Metalject's view that I don't see a problem with it. Dianabol has a halflife of 4 hours. You can quickly drop it. The Testosterone takes a while to clear, I would be more worried to stick a 5hl ester in my body than something that has a 4hour half-life.

I personally prefer a kick start as well, actually a frontload. Never been a fan of waiting.


EDIT: This is probably getting confusing to OP by this point, too many opinions. I am out.

[Lunk1]

The androgen is Dianabol/testosterone act in the same way, androgens that aromatase. We are here everyday to help him if there was any problems either way. But I share Metalject's view that I don't see a problem with it. Dianabol has a halflife of 4 hours. You can quickly drop it. The Testosterone takes a while to clear, I would be more worried to stick a 5hl ester in my body than something that has a 4hour half-life.

I personally prefer a kick start as well, actually a frontload. Never been a fan of waiting.




EDIT: This is probably getting confusing to OP by this point, too many opinions. I am out.

And..if he uses and AI ON cycle then he lowers his chances of acne due to hormone fluctuation

[boxa06]

The androgen is Dianabol/testosterone act in the same way, androgens that aromatase. We are here everyday to help him if there was any problems either way. But I share Metalject's view that I don't see a problem with it. Dianabol has a halflife of 4 hours. You can quickly drop it. The Testosterone takes a while to clear, I would be more worried to stick a 5hl ester in my body than something that has a 4hour half-life.

I personally prefer a kick start as well, actually a frontload. Never been a fan of waiting.


EDIT: This is probably getting confusing to OP by this point, too many opinions. I am out.

I know people who are fine with test but get acne from Dbol.. That's why I disagree. Dbol and Test are different compounds and he also mentioned to perhaps include anavar into it as a beginner cycle which is even more so different than Dbol.

[Metalject]

I only disagree because.. Say it's week 3 and you break out in acne, which compound is doing it?

Don't mean to offend, just putting a view across

No offense taking. This is the point of a message board. If everyone sat around agreeing with what everyone said it would make a message board pretty pointless and awfully damn boring.

Odds are strong it would be the testosterone. The relative androgenicity of Dbol is very low. There are only trace metabolites produced by the 5AR when it comes to Dbol.

[warmouth]

Welcome to the forum! You got some great advice and now youve got to research as much as you can, then propose a cycle for us to critique, adjust, and tweak.

[Metalject]

I know people who are fine with test but get acne from Dbol.. That's why I disagree. Dbol and Test are different compounds and he also mentioned to perhaps include anavar into it as a beginner cycle which is even more so different than Dbol.

They're really not all that different. Dbol is simply testosterone with an added double bond at carbon 1 and 2...this is what reduces the testosterone hormone's androgenic nature. Well, that and it has an added methyl group, but this simply protects oral administration.

[Sworder]

Metalject is spot on. It's the 5AR concentration in the skin that draws testosterone to that area(converting DHT and then binding to the AR) and then your sebaceous glands start producing oil(sebum) this is the main culprit to acne. DHT/testosterone will produce more oil than dianabol. Estrogen can be inhibitory to lipid production in the skin, but as Lunk says. An AI is necessary.

[boxa06]

I know what you guys are saying and what about the fact that the half life is much shorter causing much more unstable blood levels than for eg test e. This is what may cause acne and other sides. As a beginner he would not know if it is that or the test itself.

[boxa06]

Also as metalject suggested above to perhaps use anavar as an oral on first cycle. This is even more so different to test than Dbol is and could cause acne.. Only reason I'm saying this is because I have seen it happen.

[Lunk1]

I know this is getting the OP confused as hell!

Biggest reason for me to suggest Test only for first cycle is simply the typical level of understanding for most first time steroid users. What I mean is..take Dbol fo example: If the first time user has very limited knowledge and experience with AAS then they often time aslo have un-realistic expectations and limited understanding of the effects and results of each compound. With Dbol for example a new user might expect that the gains achieve from Dbol in 3 or 4 weeks are there to stay and then dissapointed when we ALL know whats going to happen!

Now if a person has experience and understanding then multi stacks or more advanced compounds may be considered. Call it an AAS maturity level!

[Lunk1]

Also as metalject suggested above to perhaps use anavar as an oral on first cycle. This is even more so different to test than Dbol is and could cause acne.. Only reason I'm saying this is because I have seen it happen.

Acne isn't caused by a specific compound..it's brought on by hormone fluctuation (which can be lessened or controlled by the use of an AI)!

[s.e.bowen]

No offense taking. This is the point of a message board. If everyone sat around agreeing with what everyone said it would make a message board pretty pointless and awfully damn boring.

Odds are strong it would be the testosterone. The relative androgenicity of Dbol is very low. There are only trace metabolites produced by the 5AR when it comes to Dbol.

If the androgenicity of Dbol is very low then what makes it good to "kick start" a cycle with a long ester?

[boxa06]

Acne isn't caused by a specific compound..it's brought on by hormone fluctuation (which can be lessened or controlled by the use of an AI)!

LOL still trying to peddle AI's..

OP hasn't even come back yet, I think we confused the sh!t out of him

[Lunk1]

LOL still trying to peddle AI's..

OP hasn't even come back yet, I think we confused the sh!t out of him

I get a cut from every AI purchased lol!

[boxa06]

I get a cut from every AI purchased lol!

Lunk1
''AR'S OFFICIAL AI SALES REP''

Lmao

[Metalject]

Also as metalject suggested above to perhaps use anavar as an oral on first cycle. This is even more so different to test than Dbol is and could cause acne.. Only reason I'm saying this is because I have seen it happen.

You're right, Anavar is not as closely related to testosterone. But it's an even milder compound than Dianabol. Think about it, estrogenic side effects are impossible with this steroid. Androgenic side effects like acne are possible but there are important things to remember. For starters, androgenic side effects are strongly tied to individual predispositions. For example, even with a large amount of related activity from any steroid I won't have any problems with acne, I'm not genetically predisposed, while other guys could have a breakout from just a low level of related activity due to sensitivity. Secondly, when dealing specifically with Anavar we're dealing with a steroid with again very low androgenicity...there's zero interaction with the 5AR.

[Metalject]

If the androgenicity of Dbol is very low then what makes it good to "kick start" a cycle with a long ester?

The fast acting anabolic punch. You get a high level of fast acting anabolic activity while the slower steroids are building in your system.

[boxa06]

You're right, Anavar is not as closely related to testosterone. But it's an even milder compound than Dianabol. Think about it, estrogenic side effects are impossible with this steroid. Androgenic side effects like acne are possible but there are important things to remember. For starters, androgenic side effects are strongly tied to individual predispositions. For example, even with a large amount of related activity from any steroid I won't have any problems with acne, I'm not genetically predisposed, while other guys could have a breakout from just a low level of related activity due to sensitivity. Secondly, when dealing specifically with Anavar we're dealing with a steroid with again very low androgenicity...there's zero interaction with the 5AR.

I know what you're trying to say but you're looking from a theoretical point of view where as I'm taking a practical point of view and have seen both Dbol and Anavar give someone acne but he is completely fine with a test only cycle.

[Metalject]

I know what you're trying to say but you're looking from a theoretical point of view where as I'm taking a practical point of view and have seen both Dbol and Anavar give someone acne but he is completely fine with a test only cycle.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with a test only cycle. I was simply saying I don't see the harm in adding one of those other compounds.

And yes, you're right, acne is possible with Dbol or Anavar...it's possible on some level with most all steroids but in the end it boils down to the individual's genetic predisposition and the relative androgenicity in relation to the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. The latter doesn't change regardless of the person using the steroid.

Final note, if someone is using test with either Anavar or Dbol, if acne is an issue it's likely the high levels of testosterone causing it. If Anavar or Dbol are being used alone, yes acne is possible but it should be unlikely for most people.

[Lunk1]

Sure, there's nothing wrong with a test only cycle. I was simply saying I don't see the harm in adding one of those other compounds.

And yes, you're right, acne is possible with Dbol or Anavar...it's possible on some level with most all steroids but in the end it boils down to the individual's genetic predisposition and the relative androgenicity in relation to the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. The latter doesn't change regardless of the person using the steroid.

Final note, if someone is using test with either Anavar or Dbol, if acne is an issue it's likely the high levels of testosterone causing it. If Anavar or Dbol are being used alone, yes acne is possible but it should be unlikely for most people.

Why would you say it's high levels of test causing acne???

[boxa06]

From my personal experience, I can say unstable levels of test cause acne. I won't make that mistake again!

[Metalject]

Why would you say it's high levels of test causing acne???

Testosterone is highly androgenic due to its reduction to DHT, which directly enhances the response in the target tissue of the skin. This is all due to the hormone being metabolized by the 5AR. Anavar is not metabolized by the 5AR and Dbol only is in trace amounts. Further, both carry very low levels of androgenic action to begin with, particularly Anavar and the androgenic activity of a steroid is the primary cause of acne.

I'm not saying high levels of testosterone will cause acne...again, it's all individualistic to a degree. The most test I've ever used was 1750/wk and 1000mg/wk+ numerous times without any acne. I'm not acne sensitive. Again, individual sensitivity and predispositions plays a huge role.

[Lunk1]

I understand it being more of a predispotioned response just like MPB but your post I highlited said "most likey high levels of testosterone". This would imply that the acne was caused by high test levels yes?????

[Lunk1]

From my personal experience, I can say unstable levels of test cause acne. I won't make that mistake again!

I agree that unstable levels are most likely responsible for acne but it's not just unstable TEST levels..it's unstable hormone levels!

[Metalject]

I understand it being more of a predispotioned response just like MPB but your post I highlited said "most likey high levels of testosterone". This would imply that the acne was caused by high test levels yes?????

Yes. Any time you're using testosterone outside of TRT guidelines you're introducing high levels of testosterone, more of an androgenic hormone, more of a hormone to interact with the 5AR.

[Lunk1]

So...again is it high test or unstable HORMONES????