Avoid cardio first thing in the morning and before a workout

[mattvdh]

watch?NR=1&v=sELPfhf7wdY&feature=endscreen (unable to post urls yet)

Jerry Brainum dispels this common myth

[kelkel]

Words to live by!

[mattvdh]

Words to live by!

impressive calves Kelkel, how did you get those? what kind of exercises?

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

Thought after workout is better than before

[mattvdh]

Thought after workout is better than before

that's correct.

[mattvdh]

I encourage everyone to check out Jerry Brainiums videos, the guy is a real guru on the subject! There's too many Chang's on the net spreading misinformation

[austinite]

Interesting. I disagree. It doesn't matter when you cardio. A calorie burned is a calorie burned. Over Thinking at its best... Besides, he's obviously not taking his own advice, he's fat.

[mattvdh]

Do you even know who Jerry Brainum is? Show some respect, the guy is a legend, he trained with Arnold. In one ear out the other syndrome... He's easily one of the most knowledgeable guys on the subject, he's been BB since '69, only recently stopped. Google his pictures.

[austinite]

Do you even know who Jerry Brainum is? Show some respect, the guy is a legend, he trained with Arnold. In one ear out the other syndrome... He's easily one of the most knowledgeable guys on the subject, he's been BB since '69, only recently stopped. Google his pictures.

lol... You still stuck on arnold, son? I know who he is. I could care less. And arnold sucks, too. Happy?

[mattvdh]

lol... You still stuck on arnold, son? I know who he is. I could care less.

Are you going to make a point sometime today or just troll?

[MuscleInk]

Are you going to make a point sometime today or just troll?

On the subject of (dis)respect, you're accusing one of the most valuable contributors on the board. Wow.

[MuscleInk]

Do you even know who Jerry Brainum is? Show some respect, the guy is a legend, he trained with Arnold. In one ear out the other syndrome... He's easily one of the most knowledgeable guys on the subject, he's been BB since '69, only recently stopped. Google his pictures.

I don't recall coming across as disrespectful. I offered an opinion and added that I would check it out. Untie the knot in your panties and take a few deep breaths. Life will go on.

[Prol]

Do you even know who Jerry Brainum is? Show some respect, the guy is a legend, he trained with Arnold. In one ear out the other syndrome... He's easily one of the most knowledgeable guys on the subject, he's been BB since '69, only recently stopped. Google his pictures.

You don't have to act like a pretentious tawt because people don't have your idols on pedestals .We call that being a C__T .Heres a clue its not cat .

[spywizard]

Since we tend to over train (not all but many) this might help, source is pub med..

Abstract

The importance of carbohydrates as a fuel source during endurance exercise has been known for 60 years. With the advent of the muscle biopsy needle in the 1960s, it was determined that the major source of carbohydrate during exercise was the muscle glycogen stores. It was demonstrated that the capacity to exercise at intensities between 65 to 75% VO2max was related to the pre-exercise level of muscle glycogen, i.e. the greater the muscle glycogen stores, the longer the exercise time to exhaustion. Because of the paramount importance of muscle glycogen during prolonged, intense exercise, a considerable amount of research has been conducted in an attempt to design the best regimen to elevate the muscle's glycogen stores prior to competition and to determine the most effective means of rapidly replenishing the muscle glycogen stores after exercise. The rate-limiting step in glycogen synthesis is the transfer of glucose from uridine diphosphate-glucose to an amylose chain. This reaction is catalysed by the enzyme glycogen synthase which can exist in a glucose-6-phosphate-dependent, inactive form (D-form) and a glucose-6-phosphate-independent, active form (I-form). The conversion of glycogen synthase from one form to the other is controlled by phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions. The muscle glycogen concentration can vary greatly depending on training status, exercise routines and diet. The pattern of muscle glycogen resynthesis following exercise-induced depletion is biphasic. Following the cessation of exercise and with adequate carbohydrate consumption, muscle glycogen is rapidly resynthesised to near pre-exercise levels within 24 hours. Muscle glycogen then increases very gradually to above-normal levels over the next few days. Contributing to the rapid phase of glycogen resynthesis is an increase in the percentage of glycogen synthase I, an increase in the muscle cell membrane permeability to glucose, and an increase in the muscle's sensitivity to insulin. The slow phase of glycogen synthesis appears to be under the control of an intermediate form of glycogen synthase that is highly sensitive to glucose-6-phosphate activation. Conversion of the enzyme to this intermediate form may be due to the muscle tissue being constantly exposed to an elevated plasma insulin concentration subsequent to several days of high carbohydrate consumption. For optimal training performance, muscle glycogen stores must be replenished on a daily basis. For the average endurance athlete, a daily carbohydrate consumption of 500 to 600g is required. This results in a maximum glycogen storage of 80 to 100 mumol/g wet weight.

[mattvdh]

Since we tend to over train (not all but many) this might help, source is pub med..

Abstract

The importance of carbohydrates as a fuel source during endurance exercise has been known for 60 years. With the advent of the muscle biopsy needle in the 1960s, it was determined that the major source of carbohydrate during exercise was the muscle glycogen stores. It was demonstrated that the capacity to exercise at intensities between 65 to 75% VO2max was related to the pre-exercise level of muscle glycogen, i.e. the greater the muscle glycogen stores, the longer the exercise time to exhaustion. Because of the paramount importance of muscle glycogen during prolonged, intense exercise, a considerable amount of research has been conducted in an attempt to design the best regimen to elevate the muscle's glycogen stores prior to competition and to determine the most effective means of rapidly replenishing the muscle glycogen stores after exercise. The rate-limiting step in glycogen synthesis is the transfer of glucose from uridine diphosphate-glucose to an amylose chain. This reaction is catalysed by the enzyme glycogen synthase which can exist in a glucose-6-phosphate-dependent, inactive form (D-form) and a glucose-6-phosphate-independent, active form (I-form). The conversion of glycogen synthase from one form to the other is controlled by phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions. The muscle glycogen concentration can vary greatly depending on training status, exercise routines and diet. The pattern of muscle glycogen resynthesis following exercise-induced depletion is biphasic. Following the cessation of exercise and with adequate carbohydrate consumption, muscle glycogen is rapidly resynthesised to near pre-exercise levels within 24 hours. Muscle glycogen then increases very gradually to above-normal levels over the next few days. Contributing to the rapid phase of glycogen resynthesis is an increase in the percentage of glycogen synthase I, an increase in the muscle cell membrane permeability to glucose, and an increase in the muscle's sensitivity to insulin. The slow phase of glycogen synthesis appears to be under the control of an intermediate form of glycogen synthase that is highly sensitive to glucose-6-phosphate activation. Conversion of the enzyme to this intermediate form may be due to the muscle tissue being constantly exposed to an elevated plasma insulin concentration subsequent to several days of high carbohydrate consumption. For optimal training performance, muscle glycogen stores must be replenished on a daily basis. For the average endurance athlete, a daily carbohydrate consumption of 500 to 600g is required. This results in a maximum glycogen storage of 80 to 100 mumol/g wet weight.

That's all fine and good, however BB's aren't your typical athlete. A great deal of BB's/lifters are on a keto type diet. Sure you might loose some strength and endurance when in ketosis but you'll also shred up nicely.

[MuscleInk]

watch?NR=1&v=sELPfhf7wdY&feature=endscreen (unable to post urls yet)

Jerry Brainum dispels this common myth

Curious to see what he has to say. Can't view it from my phone. I do fasted cardio in the AM everyday so I personally feel his comments may be bs but I'll evaluate his commentary.

[mattvdh]

Yeah definitely check out the video. You're likely burning muscle first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

[gixxerboy1]

Yeah definitely check out the video. You're likely burning muscle first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

why cause 1 old timer said so?

[mattvdh]

nice grammar.

[gixxerboy1]

really? sorry on my phone. didn't realize the grammar police were monitoring this thread.

But back to point, the video isn't correct

[austinite]

nice grammar.

Wow. I'm so happy to watch you shorten your membership span.

Did you even watch the very video you posted? "You're not eating any protein, there's no basic guard"... okaaaaaaaaay. Thanks for the science lesson!

[spywizard]

so science and medicine are incorrect??? low intensity cardio with depleted glycogen stores is not the best way to burn stored fats for energy..

damn, i need to start reading different books..

[mattvdh]

so science and medicine are incorrect??? low intensity cardio with depleted glycogen stores is not the best way to burn stored fats for energy..

damn, i need to start reading different books..

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

[RaginCajun]

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

Sprinters and marathon runners have different types of muscle fibers. Slow twitch vs fast twitch.

Go do some more homework and go to your room NOW!

[spywizard]

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

It's what's taught at the University of Minnesota Sports Science program... i'm not quoting sources, you can google that yourself.. marathon athletes develop more mitochondria and more developed slow twitch muscle fibers, thus more glycogen stores..

with 300-400 cals stored in the liver and far less stored in the muscles, once it's gone, muscle amino are used including organ muscle is broken down for fuel for high intensity cardio..

thus my statement holding that low intensity max hrt rate being 100 (on average, I'm not figuring out your VO2max for ya) during the exertion holds that the majority of the fuel used during a period of time will be stored fats in most part due to depleted levels via the sleep cycle use of stored glycogen in the body..

or in the case of the body builder after 400-600 cals are burned during a training session, should conduct cardio at a max hrt rate of 90-100 bts per minute to insure that fats are used for fuel... 30-60 minutes post workout.. pre workout meal, it also helps with the removal of lactic acid buildup in the muscle. That is in connection to the context of this discussion ..

[austinite]

Are you going to make a point sometime today or just troll?

Really? You that upset over a comment? Why don't you relax and enjoy your stay, before you make it too short. I made my point, what he said is not true. Simple. take it or leave it.

[mattvdh]

I'm not at all upset, I'm just saying you're not making any valid arguments. You're just disagreeing for no reason and you're being disrespectful to the guys who paved the path, not cool!

[mattvdh]

You haven't made any valid points. You just said 'it's over thinking at its best' (not a point, just an opinion), 'a calorie burned is a calorie burned'---not true, if you're in a catabolic state your body will sacrifice muscle tissue instead of burning fat. When you do cardio first thing in the morning your glycogen is low and there's no protection from your body entering a catabolic state.

[gixxerboy1]

You haven't made any valid points. You just said 'it's over thinking at its best' (not a point, just an opinion), 'a calorie burned is a calorie burned'---not true, if you're in a catabolic state your body will sacrifice muscle tissue instead of burning fat. When you do cardio first thing in the morning your glycogen is low and there's no protection from your body entering a catabolic state.

then how do I do morning cardio and burn fat and not muscle? Body composition doesn't lie

[mattvdh]

water loss, muscle loss. I doubt you would notice anything significant after a cardio session. It takes several days to lose a pound of legit fat. body composition isn't always accurate either.

[gixxerboy1]

water loss, muscle loss. I doubt you would notice anything significant after a cardio session. It takes several days to lose a pound of legit fat. body composition isn't always accurate either.

you're correct. I'm new to this and have only done one cardio session

[Rwy]

This guy is funny

[Sgt. Hartman]

You haven't made any valid points. You just said 'it's over thinking at its best' (not a point, just an opinion), 'a calorie burned is a calorie burned'---not true, if you're in a catabolic state your body will sacrifice muscle tissue instead of burning fat. When you do cardio first thing in the morning your glycogen is low and there's no protection from your body entering a catabolic state.

It doesn't matter what type of cal you burn while you're performing your cardio. Like aus said a calorie burned is a calorie burned. You have fat cells moving in and out of your fat stores all day long, lose some fat cells during cardio and gain them back at breakfast. Your body composition will be determined by your macro split, total cals, and training routine, etc. not when you do cardio.

[baseline_9]

Interesting. I disagree. It doesn't matter when you cardio. A calorie burned is a calorie burned. Over Thinking at its best... Besides, he's obviously not taking his own advice, he's fat.

It doesn't matter what type of cal you burn while you're performing your cardio. Like aus said a calorie burned is a calorie burned. You have fat cells moving in and out of your fat stores all day long, lose some fat cells during cardio and gain them back at breakfast. Your body composition will be determined by your macro split, total cals, and training routine, etc. not when you do cardio.

I havnt seein the video... I don't need to...

I do however know that the above posts are correct....

[mattvdh]

I havnt seein the video... I don't need to...

I do however know that the above posts are correct....

You should probably watch the video before forming an opinion. How can you be so sure that 'the above is correct' if you haven't considered an opposing opinion?

[baseline_9]

You should probably watch the video before forming an opinion. How can you be so sure that 'the above is correct' if you haven't considered an opposing opinion?

Because I understand basic metabolism

[mattvdh]

Because I understand basic metabolism

I don't like using the term ignorant, because people often misunderstand it as some sort of highly insulting term, but to me it means someone who ignores the evidence being presented. It's like a cigarette smoker is ignorant for smoking even though they clearly understand that it is a detriment to their health.

[gixxerboy1]

sure, why not
but only on Tuesdays when its raining

[austinite]

sure, why not
but only on Tuesdays when its raining

No. Rain is a very small factor. It would have to hail to make a difference.

[Lunk1]

I highly doubt any of us are really reaching a TRUE catabolic state and if we are it isn't for a long enough time period to cause any real issue. If you are a pro athlete working out for hours a day, several days a week...sure!