Training twice a day?

[yeahbuddy289]

How do you guys feel about training twice a day? My split has always been-

monday- chest
tuesday- back
wednesday-legs
thursday-shoulders/traps
friday- tris/bis
saturday/sunday- off

I have always gone to a gym near my work and trained on my lunch break. But I recently moved and now I also have a really good gym near my house. So I was thinking maybe I can lessen the days I spend in the gym by combining a couple workouts into one day. For example, tomorrow I can train shoulders and traps on my lunch break, then later in the day I can go to the other gym and train legs.

[KINGKONG]

How do you guys feel about training twice a day? My split has always been-

monday- chest
tuesday- back
wednesday-legs
thursday-shoulders/traps
friday- tris/bis
saturday/sunday- off

I have always gone to a gym near my work and trained on my lunch break. But I recently moved and now I also have a really good gym near my house. So I was thinking maybe I can lessen the days I spend in the gym by combining a couple workouts into one day. For example, tomorrow I can train shoulders and traps on my lunch break, then later in the day I can go to the other gym and train legs.

I can only muster the amount of energy I need in a workout once a day..I have no urge to train each body part more than once a week as well..

[Proximal]

I have done 2x/day, but when I'm bumping up the volume of my sets and hitting body parts 2x/week. That means multiple body parts per work-out.

Sometimes around the one hour mark, like if you just destroyed back from every conceivable angle - you're wasted (mentally and physically). BUT, you still have biceps and perhaps abs left. Don't want to do a half-assed bicep workout just then - so go home/work, fuel up and then go back to the gym later.

[< <Samson> >]

Tried it, it's okay - but, for the moderate juicer it's a waste of time


I have been working on the intensity of my workouts for about a year now. After a under one & a half hour workout now I have to drag myself out of the gym. This is between 15 mins of cardio & a little bit over an hour of lifting - I do this now EOD. . . . Been good so far. . . . . So, I really see no need for a second session a day. . . .Shit, plus I have been working outside in this insane 110 degree heat at least 3x a week.

[Mr.BB]

Training twice a day is fine if you go there just to look at gurls.

If you have any intensity in your workout is kinda impossible.

[< <Samson> >]

Training twice a day is fine if you go there just to look at gurls.

So true. . . lmao


I use to do the morning rush, then the after work rush - the after work classes have the best asses

[yeahbuddy289]

I feel like the workouts would be spaced out far enough so there is plenty of time to rest and eat before heading back to the gym. I would not be training the same muscle group twice a day just to clear up any confusion on that. Plus I'm also not spending hours at a time in the gym. I train for 30-45 minutes. I hit it hard then leave.

[xnotoriousx]

Listen to your body. Get a timer, drop your rest periods down between sets. Start at a strict 60sec then after a couple weeks go to 50 then 40... Play with it and ALWAYS end the last set of each exercise on failure. I promise you there is no need for 2x a day when you're doing this! If you feel like you can do 2x a day then your intensity is nowhere near where it should be. Rest is very important also. I would relax and focus on diet during your lunch break and save your energy for a INTENSE workout in the evening. Good luck!

[Proximal]

Training twice a day is fine if you go there just to look at gurls.

If you have any intensity in your workout is kinda impossible.

Got to disagree with you. And although I'm sure you weren't trying to be negative, it can come of as being offensive to those who you don't know how they workout.

Looking at your statement "kinda impossible". How exactly? I've been making a point of asking some of the "beasts" at the gym if they favor 1x/wk vs. 2x/wk workouts. The answer is predominantly 2x/wk so you have to work multiple body-parts in a workout. So why would it be kinda impossible to have just thrashed your back intensely and be frayed to the point of shutting down, so you don't do biceps half-assed?

Speaking of asses Samson. Most of the girls with the best asses at my gym are in fact there 2x/day. You'll find them @ the power-racks, squatting and deadlifting

[Mr.BB]

Got to disagree with you. And although I'm sure you weren't trying to be negative, it can come of as being offensive to those who you don't know how they workout.

Looking at your statement "kinda impossible". How exactly? I've been making a point of asking some of the "beasts" at the gym if they favor 1x/wk vs. 2x/wk workouts. The answer is predominantly 2x/wk so you have to work multiple body-parts in a workout. So why would it be kinda impossible to have just thrashed your back intensely and be frayed to the point of shutting down, so you don't do biceps half-assed?

Speaking of asses Samson. Most of the girls with the best asses at my gym are in fact there 2x/day. You'll find them @ the power-racks, squatting and deadlifting

Just my opinion Prox, dont take it so seriously

Kinda impossible cause 1. your muscles will be sored 2. Your CNS will get fried and will not be able to lift the weights, and have the intensity, you would if the CNS was rested.

If you want to go to the gym and hang out its fine, just dont occupy the machines with endless sets resting 5 minutes (or more) in between while browsing facebook, some guys go there just to train.

You grow in the kitchen and resting, not in the gym.

[Proximal]

Just my opinion Prox, dont take it so serious No I understand BB. You're a good guy, understand where you're coming from
Kinda impossible cause 1. your muscles will be sored 2. Your CNS will get fried and will not be able to lift the weights, and have the intensity, you would if the CNS was rested.
This is where I think your physiology is flawed however. First off the whole CNS thing is overblown, and honestly, I have not found satisfactory documentation discussing this, except short term. What I mean is that the nervous system runs on ATP and that ATP recovers in a matter of minutes, which is why you see longer rest between sets when doing plyometrics or pure max strength training. Yes, if you are going at it hard, sweating profusely, then electrolytes play a role. However, this confirms what I am saying about 2x/day. If you are mentally fatigued (call it CNS if you will, I'm not buying it), you go home, refuel, maybe nap, then hit the gym a second time.

If you want to go to the gym and hang out its fine, just dont occupy the machines with endless sets resting 5 minutes (or more) in between while browsing facebook, some guys go there just to train.

Here is where I more than agree with you. I've made a couple of enemies in the gym when I've gone up to someone whose clearly just sitting there and with a bit of a glare ask them if they ever are going to be done with the equipment - because I've just knocked off 2 other exercises waiting for the damn thing

You grow in the kitchen and resting, not in the gym.

Always a pleasure Mr. BB, hope all is well with you! Love your avatars by the way - they must squat plenty!

[Mr.BB]

This is where I think your physiology is flawed however. First off the whole CNS thing is overblown, and honestly, I have not found satisfactory documentation discussing this, except short term. What I mean is that the nervous system runs on ATP and that ATP recovers in a matter of minutes, which is why you see longer rest between sets when doing plyometrics or pure max strength training. Yes, if you are going at it hard, sweating profusely, then electrolytes play a role. However, this confirms what I am saying about 2x/day. If you are mentally fatigued (call it CNS if you will, I'm not buying it), you go home, refuel, maybe nap, then hit the gym a second time.

Have nothing scientific for you, just my own experience, maybe im different. Cannot really nap through the day, wish I could

[ghettoboyd]

cns in my opinion is not just mental fatigue imho I work 60+ hrs a week in a very physical job, work out 4 days a week for the last 12 yrs religiously and also cross-country mountain bike at least 20 miles a week...with all that activity it is hard not to burn out and feel over trained because I absoluty am but I love what I do so I deal with it but yea it taxes the csn I don't see how its bullshit... its a term someone much smarter than you and I came up with in the scientific community...anyways respect brother...

[MuscleScience]

There was several papers I read on this years ago. Basically training the same body part twice a day is of little benefit. You are creating micro trauma to the myofibril when you exercise. If you hit the same body part twice, you effectively hinder recovery from the first bout of exercise and hit the muscle at a vulnerable period in the acute phase of growth and repair process.

I think there is no problem hitting say legs in to morning and back at night though.

[Proximal]

cns in my opinion is not just mental fatigue imho I work 60+ hrs a week in a very physical job, work out 4 days a week for the last 12 yrs religiously and also cross-country mountain bike at least 20 miles a week...with all that activity it is hard not to burn out and feel over trained because I absoluty am but I love what I do so I deal with it but yea it taxes the csn I don't see how its bullshit... its a term someone much smarter than you and I came up with in the scientific community...anyways respect brother...

I see where you are coming from but 60 hours is significantly different than an hour or two the gym. Respect right back at you btw.

[Proximal]

There was several papers I read on this years ago. Basically training the same body part twice a day is of little benefit. You are creating micro trauma to the myofibril when you exercise. If you hit the same body part twice, you effectively hinder recovery from the first bout of exercise and hit the muscle at a vulnerable period in the acute phase of growth and repair process.

I think there is no problem hitting say legs in to morning and back at night though.

I know you've made comments on this subject on other threads MS, glad you're here.

As you probably know I have a medical background and I also teach Anatomy & Physiology, so we both have a similar base of knowledge.

Would love to see the papers, but I'm just hard pressed understanding what has to recover. As I mentioned to Mr. BB, the ATP is going to be recovered in minutes. Electrolytes (sodium & potassium in particular) I can understand, but they must be be lost through profuse sweating or diet imbalances - so that is pretty much a non-issue to me for guys in the gym.

How do you guys explain Olympic athletes training throughout the day, similar with professional athletes, etc. There is definitely repetition to similar muscle groups occurring multiple times per day and on a daily basis.. I would challenge you and say that the CNS and PNS is working one hell of a lot harder if you are an Olympic swimmer or gymnast who is using practically every muscle in their body compared to a bodybuilder who is only hitting their deltoids.

As a physical therapist working is sports medicine, training someone to come back from a knee injury - trust me, exercises are done repetitively throughout the day and they recover just fine.

But hey, with all of that just said - if there is documentation out there (and as you must know MS, there must be more than a few that substantiates the same thing, because research findings are all over the place for just about everything) - then I'll step back from my position. I personally have only found radom loose references out there with nothing to back it up.

Peace to you all - I am NOT trying to be an A-hole - just digging the conversation with my fellow members.

[MuscleScience]

I know you've made comments on this subject on other threads MS, glad you're here.

As you probably know I have a medical background and I also teach Anatomy & Physiology, so we both have a similar base of knowledge.

Would love to see the papers, but I'm just hard pressed understanding what has to recover. As I mentioned to Mr. BB, the ATP is going to be recovered in minutes. Electrolytes (sodium & potassium in particular) I can understand, but they must be be lost through profuse sweating or diet imbalances - so that is pretty much a non-issue to me for guys in the gym.

How do you guys explain Olympic athletes training throughout the day, similar with professional athletes, etc. There is definitely repetition to similar muscle groups occurring multiple times per day and on a daily basis.. I would challenge you and say that the CNS and PNS is working one hell of a lot harder if you are an Olympic swimmer or gymnast who is using practically every muscle in their body compared to a bodybuilder who is only hitting their deltoids.

As a physical therapist working is sports medicine, training someone to come back from a knee injury - trust me, exercises are done repetitively throughout the day and they recover just fine.

But hey, with all of that just said - if there is documentation out there (and as you must know MS, there must be more than a few that substantiates the same thing, because research findings are all over the place for just about everything) - then I'll step back from my position. I personally have only found radom loose references out there with nothing to back it up.

Peace to you all - I am NOT trying to be an A-hole - just digging the conversation with my fellow members.

As I remember it, multiple bouts of exercise were detrimental to those that had higher volume and higher repetition. Obviously a powerlifter, and a bodybuilder have much different rep ranges. Bodybuilders' aim is to stimulate and break down as much of the myofibril content of a muscle as they can per session to stimulate hypertrophy. I can't see how hitting biceps with 5 exercise in the morning and then doing the same in the evening gives you any benefit, and I could see where it could give you all the risks of over training and injury. To me the risk versus benefit is not in favor for multiple bouts.

Divergent muscle functional and architectural responses to two successive high intensity resistance exercise sessions in competitive weightlifters an... - PubMed - NCBI

Also with rehabbing an athlete, muscle hypertrophy isn't nessisarily the end goal. Rebuilding strength, proprioception, endurance, neural feedback etc is to get them back into competion as quickly as possible. I don't think on the short term twice a day is a problem, if it was part of a 12 week plan though. I think if they were purely doing it for bodybuilding, they would be pretty worn out by the end of that training period.

[MuscleScience]

Il

Would love to see the papers, but I'm just hard pressed understanding what has to recover. As I mentioned to Mr. BB, the ATP is going .

Outside of micro and macro nutrient recovery, there is physical damage to the muscle fibers, cell membrane, mitochondria and others cellular components from the mechanical forces as well as the highly acute oxidative damages that occurs. During and after exercise bouts there is several methods in research that are used to measure overall stimulation of a muscle and a recovery period.

Some of the more obvious lab test are creatine kinase isomer type (mm) GH, C-reactive protein, super oxide dismutatase and T release. There is an established range post exercise for these values and are highly correlated to muscle recover post exercise. For example CK is probably what most are familiar with. Post exercise CK-mm should drop of in a very linear fashion. If it is elevated after a certain period of time, then we know that the individual hasn't fully recovered from a particular bout or training as CK is still "leaking," at least in theory from damaged muscle tissue. As a PT I am not sure if you guys test that in clinic. But it's also used medically after massive traumatic injury to tell if a person is healing and can be a predictor of morbidity/mortality much like CK isomer type MB for cardiovascular damage.

Interestingly, in ultra endurance athletes. There has been documented individuals that after competition show CK-mb as high as those that suffered from MI. But that's my own person factoid I found cool.

Then there is measurable effects on strength and such that can be performed. Strength decreases don't seem to appear right away once you account for lactate levels. You can sometimes strength test individuals in the lab multiple times in a day. Which we did in university as it helps with data collection tremendously.

[yeahbuddy289]

Guys I am not talking about training the same body part twice a day.... That would be pretty dumb for lack of a better word. What I am saying is I could train shoulders on my lunch break from 12-1pm then hit the gym near my house around 7pm and train legs. I would be training two completely separate muscle groups.

[Proximal]

As I remember it, multiple bouts of exercise were detrimental to those that had higher volume and higher repetition. Obviously a powerlifter, and a bodybuilder have much different rep ranges. Bodybuilders' aim is to stimulate and break down as much of the myofibril content of a muscle as they can per session to stimulate hypertrophy. I can't see how hitting biceps with 5 exercise in the morning and then doing the same in the evening gives you any benefit, and I could see where it could give you all the risks of over training and injury. To me the risk versus benefit is not in favor for multiple bouts.

Not sure we're addressing the same things here. I fully agree with you regarding hitting the exact same muscle a second time in a day. I think the original idea is just training a second time in a day. Granted if you do back in the a.m. the biceps will be involved, so appreciate the idea about them getting worked a second time. And if a person is building strength, they are breaking down the myofibrils as well, only to have them re-build, so not sure where you are coming from with this.

Divergent muscle functional and architectural responses to two successive high intensity resistance exercise sessions in competitive weightlifters an... - PubMed - NCBI

Also with rehabbing an athlete, muscle hypertrophy isn't nessisarily the end goal. Rebuilding strength, proprioception, endurance, neural feedback etc is to get them back into competion as quickly as possible. I don't think on the short term twice a day is a problem, if it was part of a 12 week plan though. I think if they were purely doing it for bodybuilding, they would be pretty worn out by the end of that training period.

Again, we might not be addressing the same question here. You are correct, hypertrophy is not the main goal of rehab, but believe me it does occur, because of the level of atrophy that the client started with. But back to the point, they are still breaking down and rebuilding the myofibrils - and they are able to do this quite well with multiple workouts per day. Do you think Adrian Peterson from the NFL didn't bust his ass repeatedly, every day. Look at his strength and size gains.

[Proximal]

Guys I am not talking about training the same body part twice a day.... That would be pretty dumb for lack of a better word. What I am saying is I could train shoulders on my lunch break from 12-1pm then hit the gym near my house around 7pm and train legs. I would be training two completely separate muscle groups.

I know, I'm not sure how/why they took it in that direction myself. BTW, I hope you don't think I'm hijacking your thread - please forgive me if I have, thanks!

[Proximal]

Outside of micro and macro nutrient recovery, there is physical damage to the muscle fibers, cell membrane, mitochondria and others cellular components from the mechanical forces as well as the highly acute oxidative damages that occurs. During and after exercise bouts there is several methods in research that are used to measure overall stimulation of a muscle and a recovery period.

Some of the more obvious lab test are creatine kinase isomer type (mm) GH, C-reactive protein, super oxide dismutatase and T release. There is an established range post exercise for these values and are highly correlated to muscle recover post exercise. For example CK is probably what most are familiar with. Post exercise CK-mm should drop of in a very linear fashion. If it is elevated after a certain period of time, then we know that the individual hasn't fully recovered from a particular bout or training as CK is still "leaking," at least in theory from damaged muscle tissue. As a PT I am not sure if you guys test that in clinic. But it's also used medically after massive traumatic injury to tell if a person is healing and can be a predictor of morbidity/mortality much like CK isomer type MB for cardiovascular damage.

Interestingly, in ultra endurance athletes. There has been documented individuals that after competition show CK-mb as high as those that suffered from MI. But that's my own person factoid I found cool.

Then there is measurable effects on strength and such that can be performed. Strength decreases don't seem to appear right away once you account for lactate levels. You can sometimes strength test individuals in the lab multiple times in a day. Which we did in university as it helps with data collection tremendously.

This is all great, but you're addressing muscles - I thought we were discussing CNS (and PNS) non-recovery issues as being the focus as to why a person should not do a second workout in a day.

I think you and I might be addressing different things perhaps.

Want to thank you again for this very nice conversation - much appreciated!

Yeahbuddy, thank you for this thread!

[< <Samson> >]

Guys I am not talking about training the same body part twice a day.... That would be pretty dumb for lack of a better word. What I am saying is I could train shoulders on my lunch break from 12-1pm then hit the gym near my house around 7pm and train legs. I would be training two completely separate muscle groups.

I think it would be totally fine.

When I really got into this juicing & lifting thing I would do 45 mins fasted cardio in the AM, then go back to lift late in the afternoon. Or, do completely different muscle groups - legs, then upper body.


There are many ways to do this shit, it's figuring out what works for you.


It's pretty much like cycling itself, just because it works for someone else doesn't mean you'll like it or it do the same for you.

[MuscleScience]

This is all great, but you're addressing muscles - I thought we were discussing CNS (and PNS) non-recovery issues as being the focus as to why a person should not do a second workout in a day.

I think you and I might be addressing different things perhaps.

Want to thank you again for this very nice conversation - much appreciated!

Yeahbuddy, thank you for this thread!

Idk I'm lost now...lol

[Proximal]

Me too. Afraid I've come off as a know-it-all, douche-bag - twat, though definitely NOT my intention. Guys, great discussing this with you. Thanks again yeahbuddy!

[Euroholic]

Alot of the old time body builders trained twice a day. Chestin the morning arms and calfs and night etc etc

[MuscleScience]

Me too. Afraid I've come off as a know-it-all, douche-bag - twat, though definitely NOT my intention. Guys, great discussing this with you. Thanks again yeahbuddy!

Welcome to my life...lol

[Mr.BB]

Guys I am not talking about training the same body part twice a day.... That would be pretty dumb for lack of a better word. What I am saying is I could train shoulders on my lunch break from 12-1pm then hit the gym near my house around 7pm and train legs. I would be training two completely separate muscle groups.

In my opinion if I squat in the morning, I will not be able to bench press the same weight in the afternoon as if I was fresh.

Would I be able to train? Sure, but not with same intensity. Our goal is not to train the muscle to do a certain task like all other sports, the goal is hypertrophy.

Would there be advantages to train morning and evening? Cant see any advantage, you dont grow in the gym. Unless of course you are a professional and have a bunch of steroids, HGH, insulin, IG1 etc, running in your veins.

Dont think other sports, or professional sports, or rehab fits in this discussion and you wont find medical studies about lifters who live the lifestyle and/or which objective is hypertrophy.

[600@50]

This sounds a lot like the old Bulgarian split routine from back in the 90s. It was kind of new for the day but it consisted of twice a day training for no more than 30 to 45 minutes per session. You worked 1 or at most 2 body parts per session. You just had to hit it hard and fast and there was no way to have high volume. It is basically like the HIIT training of today. The key is to really hit failure which most people think they do but actually don't. Short intense workouts are about intensity not volume.

[ChiefLee]

The only reason I go to the gym twice a day is if I was trying to spit up a hiit cardio session, or to train again with my ex boyfriend (bonding time).

[Marsoc]

How do you guys feel about training twice a day? My split has always been-

monday- chest
tuesday- back
wednesday-legs
thursday-shoulders/traps
friday- tris/bis
saturday/sunday- off

I have always gone to a gym near my work and trained on my lunch break. But I recently moved and now I also have a really good gym near my house. So I was thinking maybe I can lessen the days I spend in the gym by combining a couple workouts into one day. For example, tomorrow I can train shoulders and traps on my lunch break, then later in the day I can go to the other gym and train legs.

Unless I was on a massive diet to fuel this "2 a days" option or on a super physiological supplement of sorts ( a test cycle etc, which in never cycled ever in. My life ) I personally felt I wanted all my focus and fuel going to one chosen muscle group for that day, didn't want to spread the effort let alone the fuel to more then one large muscle group. We did "2 a days" when conditioning for football or wrestling season in middle school or high school.

I'm heard working that same muscle 2 times a week is ok if you can handle the stress and not turn into a ball or coritsol. But I never want to have any other muscle broke down and repairing if I just training my legs, etc etc.

[Marsoc]

Got to disagree with you. And although I'm sure you weren't trying to be negative, it can come of as being offensive to those who you don't know how they workout.

Looking at your statement "kinda impossible". How exactly? I've been making a point of asking some of the "beasts" at the gym if they favor 1x/wk vs. 2x/wk workouts. The answer is predominantly 2x/wk so you have to work multiple body-parts in a workout. So why would it be kinda impossible to have just thrashed your back intensely and be frayed to the point of shutting down, so you don't do biceps half-assed?

Speaking of asses Samson. Most of the girls with the best asses at my gym are in fact there 2x/day. You'll find them @ the power-racks, squatting and deadlifting

I don't think he meant impossible literally but rather just not effective or efficient way of gains due to the thresholds of ones mental or physical endurance. Sure you can do two a days but for example I was so driven ( still am) I couldn't get enough of the gym or the park to run or ruck.
After an intense gym session I would still be craving more training like its my friking job or I'm addicted in a healthy way.
But I had to reason and tell myself that considering time in a day, good sleep, daily diet intake that it was best to rest up, rather keep going and going wether I wanted to or could.
Some things in life are just written unofficially in stone, and I say that one can do what they want. But I didn't want to spread my fuel out to more then that targeted area for the day wether I was down or not because of optimizing my gains..
Keep in mind personally it's easier to say that the hardest part of doing something is actually getting up and doing it aside from contemplating. And just to let you know, love when I'm sweating, dirty, physically/ mentally grinding it out, I feel most alive then... Nothing more gratifying then going beyond any limits. But even with that I must recognize things that just "are"

PS: I guess the fact that some muscle will be pre exhausted from the prior workout that when training the 2nd time that day it will act as an " intensity increaser" them stabilizer muscle or secondary muscles involved in a compound lift will be worn out and put more stress on the direct muscle being trained. So yeah in a way it will help in ways like that. But it comes down to is it worth the extra fuel, stress, time etc..

[Cuz]

You will grow alot more...if you rest and eat...eat sleep then worry about your training...assuming you know how to train you have been around awhile. A proper short and sweet but highly intense training session along with good diet and rest is all you need man depending on your goals.
My best results came from working out 3- 4 times a week

[Proximal]

Well, I'm back on my regular work schedule, which does not allow for 2 a days. Plus, recently switched to a pure HIT approach for most body-parts.

The emphasis on the eccentric portion really adds to the DOMS - so I'm finding that 4-5 days rest for each body part is mandatory.

Interested to see how my body responds to this.