Trt Blood test results -- could use some advice

[xyt]

Testosterone, serum:. 1429 (264-916)

Free testosterone: 30.1 (8.7-25.1)

Estradiol, sensitive: 44.6 (8-35)

SHBG, serum: 53.3 (16.5-55.9)


So I've been on Trt since July 27. Im self administering, although I do have a prescription so it's pharm grade.

My dose is 52mg every 2.5 days which equates to 145mg/wk or so. Pretty arbitrary to be honest.. just going by feel but I recently started feeling bad so I decided to get tested. That was my dose when I was tested last Thursday.

I've attached my results. My test and estradiol were both above range and my shbg was surprisingly high.. it used to be low a few years back.

So my question is, given those numbers, how would you guys recommend I titrate my dose in terms of both quantity and frequency of injection?

Thanks much!

[fossilk1]

You can try 50mg every 3 days. But you missed Prolactin on your labs. I would include a very low dose of AI and like .125 and take it twice a week on the days of your injection.

And if that doesn’t work, might want to look at your thyroid and just make sure everything is good there. T3, T4, RT3, TSH, Antibodies.

[kelkel]

XYT first thing you need to do is edit your post and redact your personal information from the report, then post it again.

[xyt]

Crap good call.. thanks

[kelkel]

Take a minute and read this thread xyt:

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...ower-shbg.html

[xyt]

The idea of adding anavar sounds interesting. It's pretty expensive though right? Plus not sure how to get my hands on something I can trust is actually anavar.

With an shbg of 50+, could I get away with an injection frequency of e5d or even e7d? I was reading that helps lower shbg too.

[fossilk1]

The idea of adding anavar sounds interesting. It's pretty expensive though right? Plus not sure how to get my hands on something I can trust is actually anavar.

With an shbg of 50+, could I get away with an injection frequency of e5d or even e7d? I was reading that helps lower shbg too.

Try every 3 or 3.5, with 50mg. 1400 is asking for higher RBC, Hematocrit... thicker blood possibly. And elevated BP.

I liked staying around 1000 borderline.

[Youthful55guy]

I agree with much of the advice already given. You have room to reduce the dose. I'd start with a 20% reduction and go from there. You can continue with the 2.5 day interval, but I find that confusing and difficult to maintain. I much prefer the E3D protocol, but whatever works for you as long as it's broken down into at least 2 injections per week.

Your SHBG is not all that high and I'd not worry about mucking with it. Anavar and Winstrol are both very effective in bringing down high SHBG but doses can be tricky with borderline cases like yours. You don't want to crash SHBG as this will make things much worse. With the levels you posted, which are at the high end of the normal range, you can simply saturate the protein with T and monitor/adjust your dose based on Free T. A 20% reduction in the T dose should help to bring Free T within range. More than likely, you will always be at the high end of normal for Total T because SHBG will bind and protect T from liver metabolism which pushes up Total T. A 20% reduction in dose should also help bring your borderline high E levels into range too without having to resort to an AI, which is also difficult to dose.

[xyt]

Awesome. Thank you everyone for your input. I'm adjusting dose to 48mg e3d, which equates to about 115/WK think.. a 20% decrease from my 145/wk. I will update in 6 weeks

[Youthful55guy]

Awesome. Thank you everyone for your input. I'm adjusting dose to 48mg e3d, which equates to about 115/WK think.. a 20% decrease from my 145/wk. I will update in 6 weeks

That's close to what I do. My current protocol is 44mg E3D. I have Very high SHBG (~95 nmol/L when not controlled) and control it with 0.25mg oral Winstrol 2X per day. This keeps my SHBG about 35 nmol/L and my free T a bit high at 28.7 pg/mL (upper end of normal = 24) and my total T around 1000 ng/dL (upper end of normal = 916). I plan on reducing the dose after my upcoming annual doc visit in a couple weeks. I'll probably leave the Winstrol where it is but drop the T-cyp dose to about 40mg E3D).

[xyt]

*labs update*

I just had my blood drawn 7 or so weeks after dropping my dose from about 145mg/wk to 112mg/wk. Protocol has been 48mg of test cyp every 3 days. No hcg or arimidex.

These are the results:

Testosterone total: 998 (264-916)
Testosterone free: 21.5 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol sensitive: 41.5 (8.0-35.0)

Blood was drawn a couple hours before scheduled e3d injection.

Any recommendations? Drop dose even more? Add a tiny bit of arimidex?

I appreciate any suggestions

[Chrisp83TRT]

Youthful is the king of TRT ... your level seems good , your E is a tad higher then the standard normal.

Are you getting e2 sensitive testing ?

ask yourself these questions as well

How are you feeling ?
Are you more focused ?
Better sleep?
How’s your libido ?
Are you noticing changes in the mirror ?

Everyone is different and sometimes less is more, for others may need more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[almostgone]

Why did you drop the original protocol of 48mg 2x/week? Just out of random curiosity, did you pull SHBG as well?

Edit: I see you originally pulled SHBG, have you pulled it again on newest labs?

[xyt]

Youthful is the king of TRT ... your level seems good , your E is a tad higher then the standard normal.

Are you getting e2 sensitive testing ?

ask yourself these questions as well

How are you feeling ?
Are you more focused ?
Better sleep?
How’s your libido ?
Are you noticing changes in the mirror ?

Yes it was an e2 sensitive test.
I feel ok but certainly not great. My sleep has actually been pretty decent as of late but could be better. Libido is non-existent but I have anxiety and depression so that could be due to those things. I havent noticed significant changes in the mirror but I stay in shape year round, T or not.


@almostgone
I didn't pull shbg this time around as I just assumed it would still be around the same point and wanted to save some money.
My original protocol was 52mg e2.5d. 48mg e3d has been current protocol.

Just not quite sure where to go from here. I feel like I should feel better... I don't feel confident like I have before on previous stints of try. so either it's an e2 issue or never was a T issue to begin with (I am hypogonadal without it or at least teeter on the very low end of normal)

[Youthful55guy]

*labs update*

I just had my blood drawn 7 or so weeks after dropping my dose from about 145mg/wk to 112mg/wk. Protocol has been 48mg of test cyp every 3 days. No hcg or arimidex.

These are the results:

Testosterone total: 998 (264-916)
Testosterone free: 21.5 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol sensitive: 41.5 (8.0-35.0)

Blood was drawn a couple hours before scheduled e3d injection.

Any recommendations? Drop dose even more? Add a tiny bit of arimidex?

I appreciate any suggestions

Your labs look great. I wouldn't much with the dose at this point. As you pointed out, it may not be totally a T issue at play. People can feel bad and have low libido for many reasons other than Low T. Fixing low T levels is a good and probably necessary step in fixing your problem, but it's just a first step. I'm not experienced enough in anxiety and depression to advise you on where to go from here. Certainly living a "healthy lifestyle" with good nutrition and exercise is warranted.

Regarding borderline high E, it is very trick to treat without crashing E levels and making things worse. If you do decide to do it, I suggest going to the "Best Practices in TRT" sticky and about midway down the first post there's a link I posted to my "Vodka/Eye Dropper" method. It works well for dispensing very low levels of anastrozole. The basic problem with the drug is that it was designed (and approved) to treat women who have much higher E levels than men. Therefore, the lowest dose tablet (1mg) is way too much for men and it is so small that it is difficult to cut accurately without crushing it. Dissolving the drug in vodka and dispensing it a few drops per day worked well for me.

However, I have since eliminated it entirely from my protocol. Before anastrozole, I was around 32pg/mL (8-35 normal). 3 to 5 drops per day brought me down to the lower 20 range, but was a little variable. I need to retest soon to see where I'm at without using it. I may or may not add it back in down the road. Remember that the drug loses potency over time in polar solvents like alcohol/water solutions (e.g. vodka). So, some of my variability may have been a shelf life issue. I need to sort that out more.

[kelkel]

Your numbers look great.
I would not touch your E level. It's always better a little higher than lower imho. Higher means better IGF-1 and GH levels.

[Hydrolex]

Why not take 12.5mg of Arimidex and see how you feel. If you feel better, means your E2 is high, if nothing changes then E2 is irrelevant

[xyt]

Why not take 12.5mg of Arimidex and see how you feel. If you feel better, means your E2 is high, if nothing changes then E2 is irrelevant

Actually not a bad idea. I do have a bottle of liquidex handy

[Hydrolex]

Actually not a bad idea. I do have a bottle of liquidex handy

don't take too much tho because if it crashes your E2 then you'll still feel like shit and think E2 wasn't playing a role. take a tiny dose, give it two days, if it didn't work, take another tiny dose. do this like 3 times and if nothing changes then E2 is irrelevant

[Youthful55guy]

don't take too much tho because if it crashes your E2 then you'll still feel like shit and think E2 wasn't playing a role. take a tiny dose, give it two days, if it didn't work, take another tiny dose. do this like 3 times and if nothing changes then E2 is irrelevant

Just to add to this. NEVER dose anastrozole without methodical follow up labs to give you direction and feedback. Establish baseline levels without it. Then take a small dose. I suggest with borderline cases 0.1 to 0.3 mg/week divided into daily doses (the half life is about 2 days). To accomplish this, the best way that I know is the Vodka/Eye Dropper method. Here's a copy/paste of a prior post I wrote on the subject:

TRT Forum Post on 03MAY2018: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...astrozole.html

Directions for Vodka/Eye Dropper Method of Dosing Arimidex (Anastrozole) 
1) Obtain Medicine Eye Dropper & Bottle: Several Options are available from Amazon. I've only calibrated the drop size to dose for the Boston 30 mL Bottle + Measured Marked Dropper Top.
2) Place 1 (1 mg) tablet into bottle.
3) Add 1.5 mL vodka. Draw up to 0.75 mL twice with Boston measured dropper (~ 65 drops with Boston measured dropper)
4) Allow to dissolve completely (relatively quick). Final concentration is about 0.015 mg/drop
5) Dispense in first glass of drinking water every day. Amount depends on desired weekly dose. I find that with a T dose of ~117 mg per week using E3D dosing (~50 mg E3D) that between 3 to 5 drops per day is sufficient to keep my E levels within 50% to 75% of the upper end of the normal range.

1 drop/day = ~0.1 mg/week
2 drops/day = ~0.2 mg/week
3 drops/day = ~0.3 mg/week
4 drops/day = ~0.4 mg/week
5 drops/day = ~0.5 mg/week

Supply List
Anastrozole - I use Alpha Pharma Anazole™ brand obtained through alternative sources.

Vodka - Any brand 80 Proof (40% alcohol)

Measured Marked Dropper Top for 30ml 1oz Ounce Boston Round Bottles *10 Pack* ($10.95 Amazon Prime)
From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01604GLRU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01604GLRU&pd_r d_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN 130>
&
Boston Round Bottles, 1 oz. Pack of 12 ($9.26 Amazon Prime)
From <https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Round-Bottles-oz-Pack/dp/B003FXOUOQ/ref=pd_bxgy_121_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003F XOUOQ&pd_rd_r=2AFAMTZDW6S4CXB7FXB9&pd_rd_w=s8sYM&p d_rd_wg=5OxwH&psc=1&refRID=2AFAMTZDW6S4CXB7FXB9>

Other Eye Dropper Options (I have not tried or calibrated):
Infinity Jars 10 Ml (.34 fl oz) Black Ultraviolet Glass Bottle w/ Glass Eye Dropper (1X 10 mL $9.00 Amazon Prime)
From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VTYX9DQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00VTYX9DQ&pd_r d_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN 130>

Infinity Jars 5 Ml (.17 fl oz) Black Ultraviolet Glass Bottle w/ Glass Eye Dropper (1X 5 mL $8.00 Amazon Prime)
From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VTYWXG0/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00VTYWXG0&pd_r d_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN 130>

1 Oz (30 ml) Amber Glass Bottles Boston round with glass eye dropper 4 pack + Include LABELS for your marking (4X 30 mL $9.65 Amazon Prime)
From <https://www.amazon.com/Bottles-dropper-Include-marking-convenience/dp/B00RFGLCX6/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1525365858&sr=8-3&keywords=medicine+eye+dropper>

WARNING
Arimidex (Anastrozole) in not stable in a polar solvent like water or alcohol. Therefore, do not make up any more than 1 table solution at a time. Use it to completion and then begin fresh with a new tablet and vodka diluent. I do not rinse out my container with each fresh batch, but with time, some of the insoluble tableting material may build up on the rim of the bottle. You may wish to rinse it for appearance and/or dispose of the bottle and start with a new bottle.

Notes
Most guys way over dose on Aromatase Inhibitors (AIs) like Arimidex (Anastrozole) because of locker room wisdom handed down by bodybuilders and recreational steroid users. Guys need Estradiol too for normal erections, libido, and growth hormone secretion. Without it, we go limp with a really bad case of ED and develop other symptoms of Low T.

Bodybuilders are paranoid of developing gynecomastia (Bitch Tits), and with good reason. Compared to our use in TRT, they use ridiculously high doses of testosterone and often stack this with synthetic anabolic steroids that also have progesterone-like activity. Estradiol is made from testosterone in the body (via an aromatase enzyme). Therefore, the higher testosterone levels go, the higher estradiol will go. It's a simple mass-action conversion. High estradiol in itself puts an individual at risk of gynecomastia, but when it is combined with high progesterone (as occurs during the 3rd trimester of pregnancy in women), there is rapid development of mammary tissue. If you throw high levels of prolactin into the mix, guys can actually begin to lactate. Not exactly what you had in mind for being beach buff with steroids.

My point is, don't let this hand-me-down locker room wisdom send you down of path that crashes your estrogen levels. Use labs as your guide to dose AIs, and make sure you are getting the correct "sensitive" test using the LC/MS/MS method. Don't let your doc order the standard female test, you will always test high. Here is a link to get the test yourself if your doc can't or won't order it: https://www.discountedlabs.com/estra...itive-lc-ms-ms.

Also, be smart with synthetic anabolic steroids if you chose to go down that road. Do your research. Remember too, that I do not provide advice on them, so please don't ask. My advice will always be the same. JUST SAY NO!