Do squats or you wont grow myth

[adamjames]

I was looking for some proof to support my decision to leave leave squats out of my workout entirely!! im 6 ft and leaning towards an ecto shape, although im more mesomorph now ; ) and ive had trouble making progress with my squats over the last few months and ive also tweaked my back a few times over the last couple of years, anyway ive switched from 8 sets squats to 8 sets of leg press followed by some hamstring curls and calf raises

I can have a better workout using leg press it seems, im loving it!! maybe its my body type, anyway...still using deadlifts on back days so im sure my progress wont come to a grinding halt all of a sudden because i dont squat anymore like some might claim!! heres why i think that, got this from some website, its good enough evidence for me!!




Squat vs. Leg Press for Big Legs

Question: I was wondering if, for hypertrophy purposes, there is any real advantage using bar bell squats instead of leg presses. Looking at things from perhaps an oversimplified perspective, the leg press seems to have the same joint movements and muscle lengthening/stretching as the squat � plus it�s a lot safer for the lower back.
I�m guessing it may come down to maximum load that can be moved. But can people squat more than they can leg press? Also, I�d be surprised if it were practical to use loads >1RM (negatives) for a squat, whereas on a leg press machine with a partner or two it is quite easily done.
I�m thinking the squat just �feels� harder because of all the stabilizers that are used and there is more need for proper technique to make it safe. I know a lot of power lifting purists will scream that the squat is the king of exercises, yada yada yada, but for leg/glute hypertrophy, what is the advantage? Some people also seem to think squatting causes more testosterone and or GH release but is there any solid evidence of this? I would doubt it.
Answer: First and foremost, while I�m sure my answer will offend the hardcore/hardheaded lifters, there is no requirement to perform squats (back or front) to build big legs (or even build leg strength). I know that this contradicts everything that has ever been written on the Internet but the idea that someone must squat to get big is mainly a lot of macho nonsense.
Historically, the reason that squats probably became popular was that, early in the days of weight training, that�s all there was to do. Leg presses didn�t exist (at least not in any form that wouldn�t cripple you) and if you wanted to train your legs that pretty much meant squatting.
Which isn�t to say that squatting isn�t an excellent exercise. It has arguably been responsible for more gains in strength and size than almost anything else. But it�s not the right exercise for all people; and it�s certainly not required to get big or strong legs (it�s worth mentioning in this vein that the Australian track cycling team, which absolutely dominated the world scene for a few years there, used the one leg leg press as their primary leg training exercise).
Quite simply, the only people who must squat are powerlifters, for whom it�s a competition lift (except in the push/pull meets where it�s not), and Olympic lifters where it�s a key assistance exercise (and there is even some theorizing that modern Olympic lifting will get rid of the back squat with only the front squat being used to support recovery from the clean).
Nobody else has to squat.
And, again, for people with certain types of mechanics (usually very long femurs), back squatting can be a very non-productive exercise for strength or size. They�ll end up so bent over that their low back will give out long before their legs get a training stimulus or they�ll wreck their knees because the only way to remain upright is to push the knees so far forwards that the shear is massive.
Beyond that, let�s take a quick look at reality: Anyone reading this can go into any gym in the world and see the following
A guy squatting who never adds weight to the bar: His legs will not be growing.
A guy doing leg presses who is adding weight to the machine: His legs will be growing.
The exercise clearly isn�t the determinant of growth here. Because exercise selection per se isn�t the primary determinant of growth; rather as I�ve discussed in recent articles such as Reps Per Set for Optimal Growth, progressive tension overload is the primary stimulus for growth.
Exercise selection is purely secondary outside of a given exercise allowing someone to apply progressive overload safely and effectively. You can build strength or mass with almost any exercise if the loading parameters and progression are there (which isn�t to say that exercises don�t vary in how well or how poorly they lend themselves to progression).
Put differently, if someone has really horrible mechanics for squatting, they won�t be able to add weight effectively and or will get injured. That makes squatting a poor exercise choice for them. If in contrast, someone has good mechanics for squatting, meaning that they can add weight progressively in good form, that will make squatting a good exercise choice for them.
Tangentially, it�s worth noting that usually when people say things like �Exercise XXX is the best for growth� what that usually means is �I�m built to do exercise XXX effectively.� People assume that since an exercise is good for them (since they are built well to do it), it must be the best for everyone.
For some people, or in some specific situations, the leg press might actually be superior to the squat (yes, I know heresy) for training the legs. Some of those situations include what I mentioned above, people who have terrible levers for squatting for whom things like low back will be limiting long before legs are trained. By taking the low back out of the movement, the legs may get a better training effect in that situation.
Related to this, leg presses can often be used as a secondary leg exercise after back squats (assuming the person is built to back squat in the first place); to get a greater leg stimulus after the low/upper back is fatigued from squats. Again, hardhead lifters/coaches tend to shit on this approach but enough athletes (including some very strong powerlifters) do this to make me think that the hardheads are full of it.
It�s worth noting that your comment about the leg press being safer on the low back isn�t automatically true. Done incorrectly, the leg press can be a low back death trap. People with poor flexibility and/or who try to bring the sled too far back will round their low back terribly; under heavy compression load this is an excellent way to herniate a disk.
It�s worth mentioning that doing leg presses one leg at a time (with the other leg on the floor) makes it nearly impossible to round the low back and this may be the safest way of all to do them. It also saves you a lot of time loading the machine since you won�t have to put as many plates on.
As far as comparing loads between the two movements, this isn�t really accurate. The leverages on the leg press will allow almost anyone to move more weight (in absolute terms) than squatting. But what we are concerned with in terms of the growth and strength response is not just the absolute load on the bar, we are interested in the tension in the muscle. The mechanics of the leg press will let folks move more weight (in terms of plates on the machine) but that doesn�t automatically mean more tension on the target muscles.
It�s also worth noting that people who get on the leg press and move a ton of weight through a tiny range of motion aren�t doing themselves any favors either. Not only is it much more stressful on the joints, by working only in the strong range, they are actually decreasing the amount of tension that their muscles are being exposed to.
Assuming the flexibility is there, I want people taking their leg presses to at least parallel (e.g. the angle between upper leg and shin should be a minimum of 90 degrees). For most macho leg pressers, this will mean stripping about half the weight off the machine to get depth.
As to the hormonal response, who cares. Nobody has ever shown that the small hormonal spikes to training mean a thing and recent research is starting to show that it is simply meaningless. Whether squats or GH raises hormones a little bit more simply isn�t relevant as far as I�m concerned.
Summing up, the fact is that the leg press is a compound movement that works a large number of muscles through a decent range of motion. Trainees can apply progressive tension overload on a leg press as safely and effectively as in squatting.
And for some people, usually those with mechanics that make squatting a problem, the leg press may actually be a superior choice because it takes limiting muscle groups (low-back is the common issue) out of the equation. In a related vein, it is often the upper body that fails during squatting (especially higher repetition sets); if the goal is to train the legs, it makes little sense to me to let an ancillary muscle group limit that goal.
Finally, since I can only imagine the comments that this article will generate, I�m in no way anti-squatting. I happen to love squatting, I�m also built well for it (short with short femurs). For people who can squat progressively and effectively, it�s an excellent exercise; and for those with poor mechanics it�s often not worth the time and effort because the results simply won�t be there.
The leg press, properly performed (meaning keeping your ego in check, taking the sled to parallel or slightly below) in a progressive fashion is an excellent way to train the lower body while avoiding some issues that can make squatting problematic for some trainees.
Oh yeah, keeping with my comment way above about the historical development of squatting, I wanted to show you how guys used to �leg press� back in the day (this picture originally appeared on the cover of Hardgainer, just for the record). You either had to have two guys lift the bar to put it on your feet or do it yourself (use your imagination).
Given the choice, you�d have squatted too.

[jypoll]

tbh i didnt read past Squat vs. Leg Press for Big Legs, but i squats when done properly, and obviously they must be done properly or will cause alot of problems.

but for proper strength stability and to stay away from injury i believe squats are 100x better than leg press,
but strictly for muscle size i do not know,

but if leg press is better for size, you will have short term benefit from doing press, but in the long term you wont have the same strength and stability and will have increased risk of injury which may make squat the better choice. squat also allows a better range of motion and works whole body wheres leg press does not, but that may not influence muscle size

[BigBadWolf]

Sorry I can't help my ADD kicked in hard about that third paragraph. Lol

[DanB]

I do both

Pyramid the weight for squats down to a 2rep max

high rep legpress 15-20 reps 3 or so sets, to completely burn out quads after finish squats

no science to back it up, just what i have found to work best for myself

front squats are very effective if done correctly aswell

[DanB]

and yeah im same as honkeykong, add kicked in after 3 lines so if that wasnt even your question then sorry lol

[songdog]

Yeah I dont read essays either but a lot of guys dont like to put forth the effort on squats.But like deads they build over all mass.And you dont need to do 8 sets thats tooo much.But you aint a pro so who cares if you do them or not.

[slfmade]

I can't do squats due to a lower back injury. So I've started doing leg press in a hit style and I've noticed good gains in mass. The way I do it.

Warm Up 15-20 reps
Rest 60 sec
Do 1 dropset followed immediately by 3 sets of rest pause.

I then superset 3x10's of leg ext, leg curl, and calf raises

If it doesn't make you almost puke then you're doing it wrong.

[mirin_serratus]

leg press = pretty much just quads
squats done properly = hits everything
if you squat heavy and to depth = bishes mirin

[mightym451]

I would have to agree with Mirin. I do both on my leg days. I have seen BB that do no squats and have huge legs. Most of the big names these days seem to do both. If you have a bad back and you can't do heavy leg work out via SQUATS... Go heavy on the leg press and extensions. I always liked doing wide squats when I was younger and now most do standard width as the wide ones seem to effect my hips and i'm not a flexible as I once was. Ill do squats as long as i can for the over all body move there is nothing better... IMHO!

[Awesome_Archy]

I can't do squats due to a lower back injury. So I've started doing leg press in a hit style and I've noticed good gains in mass. The way I do it.

Warm Up 15-20 reps
Rest 60 sec
Do 1 dropset followed immediately by 3 sets of rest pause.

I then superset 3x10's of leg ext, leg curl, and calf raises

If it doesn't make you almost puke then you're doing it wrong.

I was talking to a guy at the gym a couple months ago who was telling me that he has lower back issues and instead of squats with a barbell he gets a weighted dip belt and does squats like that. he kept swearing that it was the best thing to do for anyone with back issues.

[havehotasianwife]

Squats seemed to hurt my back and I switched to barbell hack squats since de***ber and my thighs jumped alittle more than 3inches my buddy that makes my suits let me know I grew haha.

[ironbeck]

Nothing beats a well executed squat for over all strength, stability, many ppl don"t do them because it requires a certain ...well because they are hard. Technique! its all about Technique. If your doing Deadlifts then you can train squats, just don"t go as heavy. I personally love the leg press and squats. example I just trained legs
Leg press 8 sets final set 1000lbs for ten reps, then switched to squats only 225 6 sets x 15reps...my gluts(ass) were sore to sit on the pot the next day! lol. Make sure your Technique is right, thats probably whats screwing up your back, but hey, injuring yourself is not the goal....I also find jogging good for my legs(not knees)

[abbot138]

I was looking for some proof to support my decision to leave leave squats out of my workout entirely!! im 6 ft and leaning towards an ecto shape, although im more mesomorph now ; ) and ive had trouble making progress with my squats over the last few months and ive also tweaked my back a few times over the last couple of years, anyway ive switched from 8 sets squats to 8 sets of leg press followed by some hamstring curls and calf raises

I can have a better workout using leg press it seems, im loving it!! maybe its my body type, anyway...still using deadlifts on back days so im sure my progress wont come to a grinding halt all of a sudden because i dont squat anymore like some might claim!! heres why i think that, got this from some website, its good enough evidence for me!!




Squat vs. Leg Press for Big Legs

Question: I was wondering if, for hypertrophy purposes, there is any real advantage using bar bell squats instead of leg presses. Looking at things from perhaps an oversimplified perspective, the leg press seems to have the same joint movements and muscle lengthening/stretching as the squat � plus it�s a lot safer for the lower back.
I�m guessing it may come down to maximum load that can be moved. But can people squat more than they can leg press? Also, I�d be surprised if it were practical to use loads >1RM (negatives) for a squat, whereas on a leg press machine with a partner or two it is quite easily done.
I�m thinking the squat just �feels� harder because of all the stabilizers that are used and there is more need for proper technique to make it safe. I know a lot of power lifting purists will scream that the squat is the king of exercises, yada yada yada, but for leg/glute hypertrophy, what is the advantage? Some people also seem to think squatting causes more testosterone and or GH release but is there any solid evidence of this? I would doubt it.
Answer: First and foremost, while I�m sure my answer will offend the hardcore/hardheaded lifters, there is no requirement to perform squats (back or front) to build big legs (or even build leg strength). I know that this contradicts everything that has ever been written on the Internet but the idea that someone must squat to get big is mainly a lot of macho nonsense.
Historically, the reason that squats probably became popular was that, early in the days of weight training, that�s all there was to do. Leg presses didn�t exist (at least not in any form that wouldn�t cripple you) and if you wanted to train your legs that pretty much meant squatting.
Which isn�t to say that squatting isn�t an excellent exercise. It has arguably been responsible for more gains in strength and size than almost anything else. But it�s not the right exercise for all people; and it�s certainly not required to get big or strong legs (it�s worth mentioning in this vein that the Australian track cycling team, which absolutely dominated the world scene for a few years there, used the one leg leg press as their primary leg training exercise).
Quite simply, the only people who must squat are powerlifters, for whom it�s a competition lift (except in the push/pull meets where it�s not), and Olympic lifters where it�s a key assistance exercise (and there is even some theorizing that modern Olympic lifting will get rid of the back squat with only the front squat being used to support recovery from the clean).
Nobody else has to squat.
And, again, for people with certain types of mechanics (usually very long femurs), back squatting can be a very non-productive exercise for strength or size. They�ll end up so bent over that their low back will give out long before their legs get a training stimulus or they�ll wreck their knees because the only way to remain upright is to push the knees so far forwards that the shear is massive.
Beyond that, let�s take a quick look at reality: Anyone reading this can go into any gym in the world and see the following
A guy squatting who never adds weight to the bar: His legs will not be growing.
A guy doing leg presses who is adding weight to the machine: His legs will be growing.
The exercise clearly isn�t the determinant of growth here. Because exercise selection per se isn�t the primary determinant of growth; rather as I�ve discussed in recent articles such as Reps Per Set for Optimal Growth, progressive tension overload is the primary stimulus for growth.
Exercise selection is purely secondary outside of a given exercise allowing someone to apply progressive overload safely and effectively. You can build strength or mass with almost any exercise if the loading parameters and progression are there (which isn�t to say that exercises don�t vary in how well or how poorly they lend themselves to progression).
Put differently, if someone has really horrible mechanics for squatting, they won�t be able to add weight effectively and or will get injured. That makes squatting a poor exercise choice for them. If in contrast, someone has good mechanics for squatting, meaning that they can add weight progressively in good form, that will make squatting a good exercise choice for them.
Tangentially, it�s worth noting that usually when people say things like �Exercise XXX is the best for growth� what that usually means is �I�m built to do exercise XXX effectively.� People assume that since an exercise is good for them (since they are built well to do it), it must be the best for everyone.
For some people, or in some specific situations, the leg press might actually be superior to the squat (yes, I know heresy) for training the legs. Some of those situations include what I mentioned above, people who have terrible levers for squatting for whom things like low back will be limiting long before legs are trained. By taking the low back out of the movement, the legs may get a better training effect in that situation.
Related to this, leg presses can often be used as a secondary leg exercise after back squats (assuming the person is built to back squat in the first place); to get a greater leg stimulus after the low/upper back is fatigued from squats. Again, hardhead lifters/coaches tend to shit on this approach but enough athletes (including some very strong powerlifters) do this to make me think that the hardheads are full of it.
It�s worth noting that your comment about the leg press being safer on the low back isn�t automatically true. Done incorrectly, the leg press can be a low back death trap. People with poor flexibility and/or who try to bring the sled too far back will round their low back terribly; under heavy compression load this is an excellent way to herniate a disk.
It�s worth mentioning that doing leg presses one leg at a time (with the other leg on the floor) makes it nearly impossible to round the low back and this may be the safest way of all to do them. It also saves you a lot of time loading the machine since you won�t have to put as many plates on.
As far as comparing loads between the two movements, this isn�t really accurate. The leverages on the leg press will allow almost anyone to move more weight (in absolute terms) than squatting. But what we are concerned with in terms of the growth and strength response is not just the absolute load on the bar, we are interested in the tension in the muscle. The mechanics of the leg press will let folks move more weight (in terms of plates on the machine) but that doesn�t automatically mean more tension on the target muscles.
It�s also worth noting that people who get on the leg press and move a ton of weight through a tiny range of motion aren�t doing themselves any favors either. Not only is it much more stressful on the joints, by working only in the strong range, they are actually decreasing the amount of tension that their muscles are being exposed to.
Assuming the flexibility is there, I want people taking their leg presses to at least parallel (e.g. the angle between upper leg and shin should be a minimum of 90 degrees). For most macho leg pressers, this will mean stripping about half the weight off the machine to get depth.
As to the hormonal response, who cares. Nobody has ever shown that the small hormonal spikes to training mean a thing and recent research is starting to show that it is simply meaningless. Whether squats or GH raises hormones a little bit more simply isn�t relevant as far as I�m concerned.
Summing up, the fact is that the leg press is a compound movement that works a large number of muscles through a decent range of motion. Trainees can apply progressive tension overload on a leg press as safely and effectively as in squatting.
And for some people, usually those with mechanics that make squatting a problem, the leg press may actually be a superior choice because it takes limiting muscle groups (low-back is the common issue) out of the equation. In a related vein, it is often the upper body that fails during squatting (especially higher repetition sets); if the goal is to train the legs, it makes little sense to me to let an ancillary muscle group limit that goal.
Finally, since I can only imagine the comments that this article will generate, I�m in no way anti-squatting. I happen to love squatting, I�m also built well for it (short with short femurs). For people who can squat progressively and effectively, it�s an excellent exercise; and for those with poor mechanics it�s often not worth the time and effort because the results simply won�t be there.
The leg press, properly performed (meaning keeping your ego in check, taking the sled to parallel or slightly below) in a progressive fashion is an excellent way to train the lower body while avoiding some issues that can make squatting problematic for some trainees.
Oh yeah, keeping with my comment way above about the historical development of squatting, I wanted to show you how guys used to �leg press� back in the day (this picture originally appeared on the cover of Hardgainer, just for the record). You either had to have two guys lift the bar to put it on your feet or do it yourself (use your imagination).
Given the choice, you�d have squatted too.

You guys who didnt read the article should really take the time to read it. It is a good read, and not just from a squat versus leg press point of view. But the overall message of the article, which is the importance of choosing exercises that you are comfortable with and that you can make consistent, safe increases in weight and/or reps....The reason this applies specifically to squatting is that as mentioned above, squatting is a skill that must be mastered, more so than any other exercise. And if you suck at them, it is in fact a big waste of time and a good way to hurt yourself.

[Bobby B]

If you know; can you tell me who wrote the article? I think that leg press is a great secondary exercise because it targets the quads heavily and compliments the squat. That said; hamstring curls are also a great excercise ater the squat, but theres not a lot of functionality there. I have lower back problems also( to the point that if it goes out Im on the floor) Ive never had a problem with squats though when I went on deployment I decided to spend the year doing only powerlifting exercises and nedless to say the squat was involved. I started off with a pretty small weight because Ive never really devoted myself to the squat. I learned to perfect my form and at the expence of ego it took about two months and then I started adding weight. I went from 5x5 with 225 to working with 375, by the end of the year. After my squats i would hit the sled and burn out my quads wich was always fun because you can stack of the plates. I for one believe the squat to be king, not just because thats what the majority of people say but because it works. Im doing crossfit right now to get ready for the summer and its intense, a lot of olympic lifts that Ive never done before. Squats are in everything we do, very rarely do you put something on a 45 degree angle to lift it. If you suck at something then you should take a step back and say; what am I doing wrong here, maybe I need to approach this from a different angle.

[yannick35]

I have been to many profesional sport doctors, chiros, massage therapist and more they are all unanimous saying that heavy squats are very dangerous. I still do light squats and very light deadlift for core training. Light i mean around 50 pounds or less. But i will never ever go to 3 plates on each side again.

Amazing post

[jypoll]

I have been to many profesional sport doctors, chiros, massage therapist and more they are all unanimous saying that heavy squats are very dangerous. I still do light squats and very light deadlift for core training. Light i mean around 50 pounds or less. But i will never ever go to 3 plates on each side again.

Amazing post

they are dangerous because very few people actually know how to do them properly and will continue to do them when they are fatigued and their form deteriorates. But if you know what you are doing then they are not that dangerous.

[kolaking]

If you use proper technique, are comfortable while doing the movements, and take it slow adding in weight you should have no problems. People with spinal injuries will have to approach it subjectively.

[Far from massive]

As to your whole ectomorph thing, I assume what you are trying to achieve is long well defined muscles without a wide ass and waist so common in plate monkeys.

Squats are fine for most once proper musculature had been achieved to allow for proper form.

Once you are able to do a squats with an unloaded bar with proper form then you can start to add plates, always do squats when you are fresh and never do squats if you feel fatigued. I feel the most common mistake most people make is to be intimadated to do a squat with say a 25lb plate on each side so they go ahead and load up 75 pounds on each end and wind up using terrible form. Whatever weight you can squat with good form is what you should be using, also depending on your distribution of slow to fast twitch you may get great results from sets of 18 reps or you may find 5 works well...experiment and use what works. Do not do a whole lot of sets till your body becomes comfortable ...remember form is king.

Another great thing for many who are not heavily muscled in the traps and shoulders is the "Manta Ray" http://www.amazon.com/Body-Solid-Too.../dp/B002EEOOB6 this is a simple device that clips to the bar and allows the bar to rest comfortably without impinging on the neck or forcing the neck forward as will happen if you wrap the bar with a towel etc.

Anyway thats my short speal on squats work up slowly, don't be afraid to start light and only squat when feeling good. These things will allow you to move up safely without problems common to those who squat.

Ohh forgot to mention, yes of course you can grow without squatting. I think a better saying is you wont grow much without including a lower body workout.