Thread: Generation Broke
11-23-2004, 08:00 AM #1
I ran across this in the St. Pete Times and thought I’d get some opinion on the matter from those of you in college. Will those of you in college, once you graduate, will you be drowning in debt?
And for us parents.......it seems as though we'll have to prepare ourselves for the chance that our kids just might have to move back home to recover from their debt.
Copyright Times Publishing Co. Nov 22, 2004
Ah, to be young, footloose and . . . drowning in debt.
That's the grim, new-millennium reality for young U.S. adults who increasingly find themselves entering the job market with unprecedented levels of student loan and credit card debt, zero savings, fast-rising living costs and a tougher road to the so- called American Dream.
Consider the typical college graduate who has managed to get a $36,000 job, which provides $2,058 of monthly take-home pay after taxes and a health care contribution. Now start subtracting the expenses of student loans and minimum credit card payments, rent or mortgage and utilities, food and transportation. What's left?
Just $34 a month. That's not much of a cushion to cover - you pick - child care or entertainment or clothing or furniture or Internet access or some unexpected emergency.
Broke, for some good reasons:
The average person leaves college with $18,900 in student loans, compared with $9,000 for 1992 graduates.
College graduates have an average $3,262 in credit card debt. That's a 134 percent increase since the mid 1990s.
The bankruptcy rate of adults ages 25 to 34 ballooned 19 percent from 1992 to 2001, when 12 of every 1,000 adults in this age group were filing for bankruptcy.
This list could go on and on. Let's just say the evidence is overwhelming that young adults have borrowed too much and have increasing difficulty paying back what they owe.
How did this generation fall into such a money trap? Larger public policy shifts played a prominent role.
The biggest culprit is the rising expense of college. This is the first generation to shoulder the costs of college mostly through loans rather than grants. The study notes that in the 1992-93 school year, 42 percent of students borrowed money for college. By the end of the 1990s, nearly two-thirds were borrowers.
I don't get it. Every politician and business leader bemoans the mediocre U.S. educational system and insists a better-educated population is key to keeping this country competitive in the future. Yet here we are, describing how college educations are getting so expensive that they undermine the financial stability of their own graduates.
Once out of college and working, what did young adults encounter? Slow wage growth - bad news for someone trying to pay their way out of debt - and underemployment. In 1999, for example, one of every four contingent workers (those holding temporary jobs) was between 25 and 34. In addition, young adult workers are more likely to lack health benefits, adding to their physical and financial risk.
Finally, the study looked at housing and transportation costs. Anyone who has bought, sold or dreamed of a home in Florida knows how rapidly housing prices have appreciated in the past five years. Now imagine a young adult, already in substantial debt, trying to buy one of those homes. Young renters in 2001 spent an annual average of $6,815 on rent and $8,423 on transportation.
Unlike established homeowners, young adults are especially vulnerable to a financial fall. That's because young adults cannot tap the cushion of equity in homes that has built up as housing prices have soared, says Ted Janger, a Brooklyn Law School professor and resident scholar at the American Bankruptcy Institute.
The ripples of a generation broke extend well beyond young adults.
Many parents of young adults, already accustomed to their grown kids returning home to live, can find themselves on the financial hook by continuing to subsidize their children. That's money for many aging parents that should be used instead for their own retirements, says Draut. Based on her research, Draut is writing a book due out in 2006 from Doubleday with the working title of Strapped: The New Economic Challenges to Becoming an Adult.
By far the biggest concern is what happens to the young and in- debt if they enter middle age still struggling to pay off ancient loans. That could make the American Dream look more like the American Nightmare.
11-23-2004, 10:20 AM #2ttuPrincess Guest
ill get out pretty easy.. I have about $15,000 in loans for school...
11-23-2004, 10:49 AM #3
I certainly agree with the fact that the cost of a college education is a tremendous contributor to the 'generation broke' phenomenon, but a substantial chunk of the blame for that lies in what we, as a culture, have allowed a college education to become.
It is seen by far too many people (if not nearly everyone by this point) as the natural and even entitled progression of *formal* education - it has become, in effect, the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th grades. A frightening portion of students who are taking on even 10,000 in debt, are doing so quite unnecessarily and largely because our culture tends to stigmatize and somewhat marginalize those that do not partake in that (now viewed as) natural progression of education. You *need* a college education to be a pharmaceutical salesman? No. To work in customer service? No. Truth be told, many post-college jobs do not require that full college education in the least. Admittedly, employers now use college as a pre-screening evaluation and in lieu of a mentor/apprentice system, so it's come full circle and even those who do not *need* that college education to perform their job exceptionally well do need that college education to convey the *image* that they can perform well; and that's not only sad, but the source of an unneccessary collective financial burden.
Additionally, this 'college as natural extension' movement has given rise to a great many private colleges that exist purely to rubber stamp diplomas, provide very little education, and turnover money. I can personally attest to how absrud this has become on the east coast, where private college education is seen as more desirable than public, and students incur great debt to attend private colleges simply not worth the cost. Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Dartmouth, Amherst etc worth the approximately 40 grand/year? Possibly...maybe or maybe not - but with many colleges that were little more than preprofessional trade schools a decade or two ago disguising themselves as colleges and charging comparable tuition, it is certainly the case that a huge percentage of these pricey schools are not worth it.
Certain state universities (Texas, Virginia, California, Wisconsin, Michigan, Massachusetts come immediately tom mind) have amazing and envious institutions (cali in particular), but a shift away from the allure of private education and back towards public must take place if this cycle is to be broken.
11-23-2004, 10:54 AM #4
i'm pretty fortunate to have parents that pay for my school, and i'm responsible enough not to get myself into credit card debt. It's gonna be nice to have a job out of college and have it be pure profit, no debts. MY parents worked hard to do that for me and i as well hope to do the same for mine.
11-23-2004, 11:14 AM #5
il be in debt to my parents for like 10,000 for a car, and probably another 10,000 for the rest of my schooling. i wont graduate till fall of 2006.
11-23-2004, 12:20 PM #6Originally Posted by BigGreen
Which makes one wonder......will the job you get after graduation make up for the amounts of monies you go into debt for earning the degree? Say I were to get an engerneering degree and spend 40k over a four to five year period. Once out I find the only job I can get pays 35k per year....even with increases in pay over a ten year span as well as factoring in cost of living increases it doesn't seem worth it. Granted you can move from one job too another and increase your outlook. This might not be so bad for someone whom is single but for someone with a family the numbers don't look too good.
11-23-2004, 12:46 PM #7Originally Posted by Juggernaut
You know this is clearly the most disturbing part of the entire post Juggy. The fact that a.) someone allowed you to copulate with them is saddening, b.) you are someone's father is disheartening, c.) your children actually are moderatly intelligent enough to be enrolled in college is shocking.
I had no clue you had kids I'm sure the Juggy household is quite an interesting one.
11-23-2004, 01:03 PM #8Originally Posted by TheChosenOne
Shame of the matter is both of my kids want nothing to do with higher education. My son who is now 22 didn't want to go at all and would rather work like a slave as his old man did and my daughter can't stand school at all. I kid you not I've offered both coutless times that I would cover the whole cost....including room, board and books....but alas no go. Now I ask you, who the hell is going to take care of me when I get even older?!!!! Looks as though my retirement preparation will consist of choosing the best tasting dog food. hahahahaha
11-23-2004, 01:07 PM #9Originally Posted by Juggernaut
Personally, I can't blame companies for going this route. Why bother discovering for yourself (and incurring the financial risk inherent with it) if someone is or is not willing to spend hours at a time on a task, can write marginally well and understands how to complete undertakings on time when a college will do all that screening for you. I am strongly of the opinion that an unnecessarily high plurality of colleges in this country are 'employment tryouts' where you pay (and often dearly) for the chance to show that you can do mundane work and stay on task, not to actually learn anything of real merit or substance. Not saying there are numerous and significant exceptions, but I do strongly believe this to be the case.
11-23-2004, 01:17 PM #10Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
The importance of what my father did wasn't clear until I had been out of school for several years. Every once in a while, I read things like this post or I have a conversation with a friend who is still paying off ridiculous debts and I become ever more thankful that my father put my brothers, sitster and me through college. We graduated with zero debt. That has made a HUGE difference.
I honestly don't see how people are able deal with the debt schools cause these days.
11-23-2004, 01:18 PM #11
There is one other way BigGreen.....you can go to work for a company, dosen't matter for what positition just as long as it's a decent sized company and one that incourages it's empoyees to advance their education. My company is one like that....they'll foot part of the bill as long as you hold a 3.0 average....and they could care less what it is you're going to college for.
11-23-2004, 01:23 PM #12Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
- Join Date
- May 2002
If I could find a company that would foot my entire grad education no matter the subject, I'd definitely take courses in a completely different subject than I'm pracicing now in order to secure a second career back up plan.
11-23-2004, 01:26 PM #13Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
But you're the exception to the norm.....your dad paid for the ticket but you didn't just go through the motions.....you gave him bang for his bucks. I've seen lots of kids going to college on dads dime and flunk every class. My brother worked part time and went to college and paid every dime for his education. Only real diffence is he never had a credit card and paid down his debt on loans with every dime he could scrape up. When all was said and done he had maybe 5k in outstanding loans.
11-23-2004, 01:27 PM #14Member
- Join Date
- May 2004
Its really hard paying for my college, books,the cost of living, nd tranportation all by my self. I work full time, attend college 3/4 time, and then try to find time to study. Since I am not 25- I do not qualify for any govermnet grants, nor do my parents help me any because they are divorced(excuse). I tell you man it is not easy at all.
11-23-2004, 01:35 PM #15Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
11-23-2004, 01:40 PM #16Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
- Join Date
- May 2002
My father is one of those guys that saves and saves and doesn't like a bunch of superfluous things (except for homes)--he now has three (well, one time share and two sprawling homes). So, gifts for Christmas and birthdays have always been bit of a brainteaser.
Although the debt caused by school is high, I must say that it certainly makes those who work for it appreciative. Just about anyone born into a middle class family after 1965 has leanred a sense of entitlement that this debt issue certainly threatens--in a good way. I don't wish large debt on anyone, but I believe shool debt (or the threat of it) certainly and effectively will do one of two things: 1. Create a sense of fiscal responsibility while banishing entitlement issues; 2. Completly burry those who don't learn how to use money responsibly.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 11-23-2004 at 01:50 PM.
11-23-2004, 01:54 PM #17Originally Posted by BASK8KACE
I agree there is an advantage to paying for your education yourself for families that can't afford to put their kids through college. Makes one really learn how to budget cash flow. If you ask me I think it should be a required course and taught the first year to help every college student out. I learned how to manage money from my father....by far his greatest gift to me...he couldn't afford to send me to college so I paid for it myself.....but his teaching me how to manage my money has helped me troughout my entire life. I can't tell you how many friends I have that are buried, and I do mean buried, in debt they will never get out from underneath.
11-23-2004, 02:00 PM #18
personally...it looks like ill have about 15-20k in loans...and about 3k in credit card debt...
11-23-2004, 02:03 PM #19Originally Posted by ColdStone
11-23-2004, 02:07 PM #20Originally Posted by Juggernaut
but i agree...ill have like 6 months till i have to start paying off the loans so hope fully i can knock out 1,000 or more on my cc in that time...then lock it away after i get some decent pay checks
11-23-2004, 02:13 PM #21Originally Posted by ColdStone
11-23-2004, 02:17 PM #22ttuPrincess GuestOriginally Posted by Juggernaut
11-23-2004, 02:17 PM #23Originally Posted by Juggernaut
but yeah...part of our problem is luxurys...like cable, high speed internet, a nice apartment, dog, and of course the 150 in gorcerys every week about...not to mention 1 brand new car, and mine is only 2 years old...on top of supplements and gear
11-23-2004, 02:23 PM #24
I'm 28 and I still with my parents. I coulda bought a house with what I paid for my 'vette, but then I wouldn't have a car. I need that to get to work as the transit system here sucks, They break down a lot and don't run 24 hours. I work from 3pm to 11:30pm or later if I put in OT. Last night I left this moring at 1am. My credit card debt is at $6.1K. I'm paying for school until April (I believe) of 2007. Almost done with that. But what I'm paying for school won't even cover rent, let a lone a house payment.
11-23-2004, 02:26 PM #25
My bad bro and broette! hahahaha Well it sounds like you two have it going in your direction.......but skip over what you can live without for now....trust me it'll pay off ten fold in the long run. Pay off the house for a few years then refinance and you'll get those luxury items you want only at a lower intrest rate...and lower monthly payment too boot. More for less is always best.
And congrates to you both!
11-23-2004, 02:29 PM #26Originally Posted by Juggernaut
You sound like my old man Juggy. Do you mind if I from now on refer to you as Daddy?
11-23-2004, 02:30 PM #27Originally Posted by 63190
11-23-2004, 02:31 PM #28Originally Posted by Juggernaut
11-23-2004, 02:33 PM #29Originally Posted by TheChosenOne
Sounds like you've a smart old man TCO. I take it you followed his advice?
11-23-2004, 02:39 PM #30Originally Posted by Juggernaut
I've never carried a credit card debt nor has he. Its kinda funny he puts literally everything he buys on credit card (for the airline miles, car discounts, etc.) and pays it off every single month on time. He also keeps track of 95% of his money the only thing he doesnt know that gets spent are things that costs small amounts of cash like McDonalds or other things along those lines. I had 2 cars while I was in highschool (d*mn nice cars for a 16yr old kid) that I paid for myself because he wasnt going to and I wasnt going to drive a piece of sh*t. I find that I am alot like he is, I dont spend much money outside of food, gear, and supplements. And with the price of homebrew and internet supplements I hardly even have to spend any money on that either.
11-23-2004, 02:46 PM #31Originally Posted by TheChosenOne
11-23-2004, 03:00 PM #32Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
- Join Date
- May 2002
Thanks for the compliment, bro. I actually have written a very serious note to my father thanking him for the sacrifices he has made and the guidance he has given. Even after sending him that letter and spelling it out for him, I doubt he fully knows in what high regard I hold him. But that's life...and I digress.
Just wanted to thank you for the idea, Jugg.
11-23-2004, 03:15 PM #33
Where do people get off thinking everyone has a right to go to college???
and if they do.. why would anyone get a degree in a field no one is hiring for???
example, we had movers come and move (of coarse) our office, of the 4... 3 of them had at least a 4 year degree.. 1. Biology 2. Liberal Arts 3. History...
Please people.. and yes.. my daughter did complete school.. on grants, and school loans..
total $36,000 for a 2 yr degree in radiology... after 1 year... she earns $44,000 per year... and is paying off her school loans, and lives on her own..The answer to your every question
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
Why the Police will Kick your ass
11-23-2004, 03:45 PM #34Anabolic Member
Originally Posted by spywizard
- Join Date
- May 2002
According to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), education is a right--including higher education (college).
BTW...here's some info on the UDHR
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration.One of the rights spelled out in this declaration is:
Article 26:If education becomes so overpriced that it is only available to the rich or puts the non-rich at a great disadvantage after obtaining it, then it limits a person's access to education--a basic right.
(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Since the USA is the country of rights and equality (per our constitution) and opportunity (per heavily influential ledgend), Americans take their rights very seriously. Since The Universal Declaration of Human Rights says education is a right, Americans expect access to that right.
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 11-23-2004 at 04:11 PM.
11-23-2004, 04:15 PM #35
I go to a private school... approx. 22,000$ a year, but I get a 7,000$ scholarship a year, so it comes to around 15 g's a year plus books... my parents helped alittle at first, but now i take out private bank loans to cover it all... Im sure my loans will be pretty high once I get out, especially if I opt for grad school upon graduation.
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)