Thread: what would god say? clones?
12-23-2004, 04:56 PM #1
what would god say? clones?
boy if this stuff keeps up what are religions gonna do to keep people believing that only god can create life?
12-23-2004, 04:59 PM #2
thats an expensive pussy!
12-23-2004, 05:03 PM #3Originally Posted by jcstomper
12-23-2004, 05:06 PM #4Originally Posted by Prime
12-23-2004, 05:10 PM #5
cloning is good, think of all the benefits, you could clone peeps to harvest organs, but i guess most would be against that.
12-23-2004, 05:15 PM #6
Take the bible, it was written in a day and age when life was very different. Some of the commandments, laws etc are irrelevant today. People dont follow it to the letter even those that are catholic etc, they 'interpret' it as to how they think its relevant to todays life. What doest this mean? well as 'thou shalt not clone' isnt in the bible i guess they dont have a leg to stand on. i contsantly covet my neighbours donkey.............am i going to hell
12-23-2004, 05:26 PM #7
im not against it to be honest
12-23-2004, 05:32 PM #8Originally Posted by jcstomper
Creating life would be if you take something life less and makes it live. Create a primitive organism from lifeless matter.
Until we can do that I think the religious people can claim only god can create life. We only modify.
Why would that be wrong btw. Can anyone oposing cloning, stem cell research ect give any valid argument to why its wrong?
12-23-2004, 05:51 PM #9
im ok with anything that is for helping sick ppl or ppl who need help, i see no problems with cloning.. but then the entire debate about if you create a clone and someone kills it, is that murder? do they get the same treatment as other ppl or are they slaves, or looked down upon.
12-23-2004, 06:02 PM #10Originally Posted by MESSY_UK
12-23-2004, 06:02 PM #11Originally Posted by Decadbal
12-23-2004, 06:09 PM #12Originally Posted by jcstomper
To be serious I dont even know how anyone could even consider them anything else then human. If I copy a movie its still a god **** movie and if I copy a human its still a human.
12-23-2004, 06:10 PM #13
yea, but what would be the point of cloning someone, if they were the same as us... we have a natural method for that. the only cloning i see would be for parts for ppl with problems..
12-23-2004, 06:12 PM #14Originally Posted by johan
12-23-2004, 06:12 PM #15Originally Posted by Decadbal
Some people would proably like a clone of themself as there kid instead of a "real" kid or wierd stuff like that.
A real clone wouldnt be needed for organs anyway. We could probably just grow limbs in labs or something along those lines instead of creating a breathing, living clone.
12-23-2004, 06:13 PM #16Originally Posted by Decadbal
12-23-2004, 06:17 PM #17Originally Posted by jcstomper
But I dont se how they could argue that with any kind of reasoning behind the arguments. They cant prove they have a sould themself so arguing that no other has it is moronic. Not to mention cells are cloned in millions daily in there own bodies.
12-23-2004, 06:59 PM #18
i agree, it would be another reason for ppl to hate ppl over something simple..
12-23-2004, 07:25 PM #19Originally Posted by Decadbal
12-23-2004, 07:26 PM #20
you may be able to copy the gentics but you cannot copy the soul, they each will have their own unique soul/personality whatever you want to call it like it says here in the article
"“The thing that many people do not realize is that the cloned cat is not the same as the original,” said Bonnie Beaver, a Texas A&M animal behaviorist who heads the American Veterinary Medical Association, which has no position on the issue. “It has a different personality. It has different life experiences. They want Fluffy, but it’s not Fluffy.”
so we may be able to make another living body or whatever but the soul/personality seems to be coming from somewhere else, God is not the only one that creates life, you get a man and a women together and they have sex and have a baby they created life together..but God gave it a soul...thats my beliefe anyway..just like with the clones.
12-23-2004, 07:50 PM #21
imo personality is just how the experiences you have been through has molded you. Thats why a clone will never be exactly like the original. For that to happen the clone has to live a duplicated life.
But I bet the clone would share most traits with the original and probably react in similar ways. It all depends on how much of the personality is geneticly determined.
I wouldnt count conciving a child as creating life from nothing...Its still not making lifeless matter into life.
12-23-2004, 08:01 PM #22Originally Posted by johan
12-23-2004, 10:33 PM #23
Actually you now what would be cool, is modifying the genes of a human and creating some super humans, could use them in the military or some other stuff.
12-23-2004, 10:44 PM #24Originally Posted by geoneo
12-23-2004, 10:51 PM #25
12-23-2004, 10:57 PM #26
if you believe in the bible as it is written then you believe that gods greatest gift to mankind was and still is free will. if we can create life with our free will ( a gift given to us) then this should be a non issue and people should lighten up about it.
12-24-2004, 04:28 AM #27Originally Posted by geoneo
That I think woulde be so horribly wrong. Your talking like blade runner now.
Only if we could turn of all emotions in them and turn them into machines would it be right. But cloning a army of killer humans that still have emotions would be like asking for alot of crap not to mention it would be the worst kind of abuse ever. It would be more ****ed upp then slavery.
I say rather use genetic enginering to evolve regular human beeings so we dont have to wait for ****ing evolution to take its time
12-24-2004, 04:43 AM #28
Yeah this sh*t kinda makes you think... reminds me of that movie "Sixth Day" I think its called... the one were arnold gets cloned, they clone by creating lifeless bodies and tranfering memories and sh*t. That would be against the bible (I think... im not a religious person so I have no idea?, does creating a new host body for your memories and thoughts go against god?) I just say who knows who cares its saving lives now... if there is a god I will deal with him when I die...
12-24-2004, 04:48 AM #29Originally Posted by Angelis
The problem I had with that movie was that they claimed you can live forever by cloning yourself and copying the memories ect. But its not ME living on its just a copy. Didnt understand the logic in that movie.
12-24-2004, 04:54 AM #30
yeah technically you live forever but its not you its your hopes, your dreams, your "soul"... So technically instead of just a memory of you living on after you die a replica of you lives on instead... its you but not you.
I know what im trying to say I just cant explain it.
12-24-2004, 05:02 AM #31
It realy touches on the whole soul stuff atleast. A copy of me will be me but not ME. If I die and he lives on it wont be ME living but still be me.
He will think he is ME but I will know that he isnt ME. Even if hes thoughts are 100% identical to mine when I die I die no matter how many copies I have.
I hope memory scanning like that will never be possible that would be to god **** wierd....
But interesting. It would kind of be proff that a soul does/doesnt exists. If the clone is exactly alike the original in everyway and impossible to separate from the original then it will prove that the soul if it exists atleast dont effect personality.
12-24-2004, 05:11 AM #32Originally Posted by johan
I have to admit the memory scan they talk about in the movie are very similar to stuff we have now... changing on type of memory to another.
instead of Solar energy to electrical energy for instance we will be turning neural energy into computer energy capable of being transfered and stored.
I believe the soul does exist... I believe the soul is a "package" word meaning (Personality / Thoughts / Dreams / Memories / etc...) therefor it does exist but wont live on once we are forgotten... unless it can be tranfered but either way... YOUR dead but your "soul" will live on until the Clone(s) dies.
Just some food for thought.... LOL
12-24-2004, 06:37 AM #33
well wouldnt it be a copy of my soul lol. I know exactly what you mean.
But I mean that if my sould was to live on then it has to mean I will live on. My consciousness is what I consider my soul and you can copy it a million times if you like but when I die my consciousness disaperes(I hope it doesnt die).
When I think of it I guess I have a religious point of view on this. I guess its because I belive in ghosts and that in turn make me belive we have some kind of soul that can be seperated from the body....
We are basicly saying the same things to eachother now with different words My stance is just that the soul as I percieve it cant be copied and the 6th day style clone of me would be exactly like me but have another soul. The soul would make him a different entity from me.
Gosh Im getting a headache thinking about this
12-24-2004, 07:22 AM #34
I just hope I am long gone before this stuff starts to become mainstream. I know that may sound messed up, but thats how I feel. I dont have any facts, or evidence or any of that stuff. I just dont like the idea of a living thing, that was created by scientist in a lab, and not by two people in love (well hopefully in love).
PS: there are already a lot of kids that parents are not responsable enough to take care of, why over-crowd the population even MORE?
JUST my opinion
12-24-2004, 08:27 AM #35
I say proceed on into the belly of the beast and let's get it over with. Clone away and reap the consequences.
12-24-2004, 10:18 AM #36
1victor plz respond to my genetic enginering thread in the religion forum
12-24-2004, 02:12 PM #37
I think its facinating and I would love to see human cloning/genetic manipulation become a reality in my lifetime.
12-24-2004, 02:19 PM #38Senior Member
- Join Date
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i want a clone of myself, so i can have a good spotter in the gym maybe..........
12-24-2004, 06:12 PM #39Originally Posted by wildcatslady
12-24-2004, 09:49 PM #40Originally Posted by johan
well, now that we've sequenced the human genome, we could almost surely use current technology to replicate it without using standard "cloning" methods.
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