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  1. #1
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    First Scientific Proove of Stacking!; Androgenconstruction predicts best options!

    Androgenconstruction predicts which steroids in theory go well with each other!

    The science behind Stacking Multiple steroids!

    The German Scientist used Genetically Manipulated Hamstercells which therefore produced androgen-receptors, they were able to see what happened through promotors and labeled proteins.

    They used a variety of different promotors to ensure accurate testing!
    They used MMTV, (ARE)2TATA en GRE-OCT binded to a plasmide-ring to get them in the cells and then exposed the cell to different concentrations of all sorts of compounds (AS and Prohormones!).

    The results were calculated by the computer and they programmed it to divide the compounds and classes...

    used compounds:

    Precursors:
    DHEA
    Androstenedione

    Naturally Occuring:
    Testosterone
    DHT
    Nandrolone

    Rest:
    Stanozolol (Winstrol )
    Oxandrolone (Anavar )
    R1881

    Good combos according to research:

    Testosterone/Oxandrolone
    Testosterone/Stanzolol
    Testosterone/Androstenedione
    Nandrolone/Oxandrolone
    Nandrolone/Stanzolol

    Bad combos:
    Testosterone/Nandrolone (!!!!)
    Oxandrolone/Stanzolol

    Offcourse this isn't 100% what would happen in Human cells but still it is much more accurate than just to see which steroid has the most affinity for the Androgen Receptor (since this includes the entire chain of processes).

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

    Complete article!
    Holterhus PM, Piefke S, Hiort O. Anabolic steroids, testosterone-precursors and virilizing androgens induce distinct activation profiles of androgen responsive promoter constructs. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2002 Nov;82(4-5):269-75.

    BTW:
    R1881 = Methyltrienolone (the very toxic oral Trenbolone !)

    Attachment:
    The Scheme that predicts which compounds go well with each other!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    daos is offline Associate Member
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    so that being said, noone should run test with nadrolone decca?

  3. #3
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    Androstenedione is just plain a bad product, don't stack it with anything.......Converts to estrogen more so than anything else. I have never used test/Nandrolone myself, but some guys really like it, so who knows? Computers probably aren't the best for understanding how the human body works anyway......if everything worked in such a 'text book' fashion, everyone would be miles ahead of the game, rather than just a select few.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by daos
    so that being said, noone should run test with nadrolone decca?
    I personally never saw the use of Bulking or Bulking drugs like Deca and Dbol .
    Why not use something that will provide Quality gains!
    (like Boldenon or Trenbolone ).
    I don't know why one rather have 20 lbs gains with about
    7 lbs water and fat, while a Quality-gain steroid can deliver 15 lbs MUSCLE while most of the times decreasing Bodyfat!

    Deca and Dbol are so popular due to their availability I guess...

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

  5. #5
    PT's Avatar
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    PT is offline DUNAMIS ~ AR-Elite Hall of Famer~
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    i always run test and deca and get better results then any other combo i have ever tried.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
    Androstenedione is just plain a bad product, don't stack it with anything.......Converts to estrogen more so than anything else. I have never used test/Nandrolone myself, but some guys really like it, so who knows? Computers probably aren't the best for understanding how the human body works anyway......if everything worked in such a 'text book' fashion, everyone would be miles ahead of the game, rather than just a select few.
    Well the computer just calculated the results of the proteins!

    Actually this is as close to the reality as a research can get without involving unethical testing on humans...

    Androstenedione is taken because it is a precursor so they would have material to compare it with
    (obviously the researchers thought that they would get five divided groups
    --> Testosterone , Nandrolone , Precursors, methyltrienolone and DHT with its derivatives; This actually is what you get if you read TEXTBOOKSTUFF as you mentioned it!).

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofmasters
    Actually this is as close to the reality as a research can get without involving unethical testing on humans...

    Unethical? If that is the case I would love to be an unethical test subject. I mean, its for the better of man kind, right? I am willing to sacrifice.


    -B

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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro75
    i always run test and deca and get better results then any other combo i have ever tried.
    Actually that mainly is because most people use Test to combat the suppresiveness of Deca
    (Still a Deca-only cycle is what most novices at the gym do and still they get about 20-30 lbs of gains!; so one would think adding Test should give even more but that isn't the case in practice).

    Also Test and a DHT-derivative is what I advice the most as a first cycle, since that means most benefits (gains, qualitymuscle, muscledefinition and fatloss) with the least sides!

    Too bad they only took Human Grade steroids
    (or else we would have some Boldenone , Trenbolone , Oxabolone etc.)
    in the comparison!.

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by twosocks40
    Unethical? If that is the case I would love to be an unethical test subject. I mean, its for the better of man kind, right? I am willing to sacrifice.


    -B
    They are actually numerous studies out there with steroids being tested with human participants, most of which I have seen came after steroids were illegalized in the U.S.........

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
    They are actually numerous studies out there with steroids being tested with human participants, most of which I have seen came after steroids were illegalized in the U.S.........
    I haven't seen any; you are probably referring to researches on people on HRT
    children with stunted growth or microphallus or other medical conditions! (AIDS, Firevictims, Muscledystrophy patients etc.)
    I yet have to see the first real-time study on BodyBuilders
    (there are some that compare their bodyvalues to "normal" humans, but this is after years; so not they give them a steroid and see what happens!).

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

  11. #11
    iNvid's Avatar
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    Everyday an interesting thread KOM. Keep it up

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofmasters
    I haven't seen any;
    Greets
    Kingofmasters

    The Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol 281, No. 1; 93-102, 1997.

    This is the only one I could find in 2 minutes, but there were numerous studies conducted within this journal. I assure you, there are many more like this.


    Edit: Here are a few more:


    Martikainen H, Ruokonen A, Ronnberg L, Vihko R. Short-term effects of testolactone on human testicular steroid production and on the response to human chorionic gonadotropin . Fertil Steril 1985 May;43(5):793-8

    Fox M, Minot AS, Liddle GW. Oxandrolone: a potent anabolic steroid of novel chemical configuration. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1962;22:921-924

    Matsumoto AM. "Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1990 Jan;70(1):282-7

    Tan, RS, Vasudevan D. "Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse ." Fertil Steril 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5

    Kadi F, et al. "Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of stength-trained athletes." Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov;31(11):1528-34

    Hobbs CJ, et al. "Testosterone administration increases insulin -like growth factor-I levels in normal men." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Sep;77(3):776-9

    Masonis AE, McCarthy MP. "Effects of the androgenic /anabolic steroid stanozolol on GABBA receptor function: GABA-stimulated 36Cl-influx and [35S] TBPS binding." J Pharmacol Exp Therap 1996 Oct;279(1):186-93



    There are a few more , but they were on things like Ephedrine, thyroid hormones and such. And a ton more that used rats and such......
    Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-01-2004 at 02:10 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
    The Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol 281, No. 1; 93-102, 1997.

    This is the only one I could find in 2 minutes, but there were numerous studies conducted within this journal. I assure you, there are many more like this.


    Edit: Here are a few more:
    Vigersky RA, Glass AR. Effects of delta 1-testolactone on the pituitary-testicular axis in oligospermic men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1981 May;52(5):897-902

    Nagler HM, deVere White R, Dyrenfurth I, Hembree WC. The effect of delta 1-testolactone on serum testosterone and estradiol in the adult male rat. Fertil Steril 1983 Dec;40(6):818-22

    Vigersky RA, Mozingo D, Eil C, Purohit V, Bruton J. The antiandrogenic effects of delta 1-testolactone (Teslac ) in vivo in rats and in vitro in human cultured fibroblasts, rat mammary carcinoma cells, and rat prostate cytosol. Endocrinology 1982 Jan;110(1):214-9

    Martikainen H, Ruokonen A, Ronnberg L, Vihko R. Short-term effects of testolactone on human testicular steroid production and on the response to human chorionic gonadotropin . Fertil Steril 1985 May;43(5):793-8

    Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol -induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9

    Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102

    Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7

    Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64

    Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age dependent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51

    Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51

    Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8

    James JS., Wasting syndrome: oral oxandrolone re-released in U.S., AIDS Treat News 1995 Dec 22;(no 237):3-4
    You must be kidding me!

    I said ON NONE-MEDICAL DISEASES and half of your researches are about rats or are in vitro!

  14. #14
    UrbanLegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofmasters
    You must be kidding me!

    I said ON NONE-MEDICAL DISEASES and half of your researches are about rats or are in vitro!
    Sorry, those slipped past me during the cut and past process. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or anything, just saying there are other studies out there. I will delete the ones with rats and about diseases. There are more than you would expect to find on normal and weight trained men, I only searched for like 3 minutes to pull up the ones I did.
    Last edited by UrbanLegend; 10-03-2004 at 09:43 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
    I know. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or anything, just saying there are other studies out there. I will delete the ones with rats, those got past me because I was cutting and pasting the pages. Just giving you ideas for future research is all bro, letting you know whats out there.

    Whats in vitro btw?
    Yes thanks bro, but these are of little value for BB/recreational AS users...
    And they never stack in those researches
    (except for Clenbuterol and L-Dopa but they both aren't AS).

    In Vitro = In a Test Tube (in latin literally means: in glass)
    In Vivo = In a real living Organism

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofmasters
    Well the computer just calculated the results of the proteins!

    Actually this is as close to the reality as a research can get without involving unethical testing on humans...

    Androstenedione is taken because it is a precursor so they would have material to compare it with
    (obviously the researchers thought that they would get five divided groups
    --> Testosterone , Nandrolone , Precursors, methyltrienolone and DHT with its derivatives; This actually is what you get if you read TEXTBOOKSTUFF as you mentioned it!).

    Greets
    Kingofmasters

    Cough cough, crap.

    They could have done an in vitro study instead of this bullsh!t. This is one of the lamest studies I've ever seen. Do you have a link to the original full article?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC78
    Cough cough, crap.

    They could have done an in vitro study instead of this bullsh!t. This is one of the lamest studies I've ever seen. Do you have a link to the original full article?
    And you say that with what scientific background?
    Would you please elaborate on your findings instead of just cursing and asking for me to send you a PDF?

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