08-01-2004, 12:05 PM #1
First Scientific Proove of Stacking!; Androgenconstruction predicts best options!
Androgenconstruction predicts which steroids in theory go well with each other!
The science behind Stacking Multiple steroids!
The German Scientist used Genetically Manipulated Hamstercells which therefore produced androgen-receptors, they were able to see what happened through promotors and labeled proteins.
They used a variety of different promotors to ensure accurate testing!
They used MMTV, (ARE)2TATA en GRE-OCT binded to a plasmide-ring to get them in the cells and then exposed the cell to different concentrations of all sorts of compounds (AS and Prohormones!).
The results were calculated by the computer and they programmed it to divide the compounds and classes...
Stanozolol (Winstrol )
Oxandrolone (Anavar )
Good combos according to research:
Offcourse this isn't 100% what would happen in Human cells but still it is much more accurate than just to see which steroid has the most affinity for the Androgen Receptor (since this includes the entire chain of processes).
Holterhus PM, Piefke S, Hiort O. Anabolic steroids, testosterone-precursors and virilizing androgens induce distinct activation profiles of androgen responsive promoter constructs. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2002 Nov;82(4-5):269-75.
R1881 = Methyltrienolone (the very toxic oral Trenbolone !)
The Scheme that predicts which compounds go well with each other!
08-01-2004, 12:13 PM #2Associate Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
so that being said, noone should run test with nadrolone decca?
08-01-2004, 12:15 PM #3
Androstenedione is just plain a bad product, don't stack it with anything.......Converts to estrogen more so than anything else. I have never used test/Nandrolone myself, but some guys really like it, so who knows? Computers probably aren't the best for understanding how the human body works anyway......if everything worked in such a 'text book' fashion, everyone would be miles ahead of the game, rather than just a select few.
08-01-2004, 12:17 PM #4Originally Posted by daos
Why not use something that will provide Quality gains!
(like Boldenon or Trenbolone ).
I don't know why one rather have 20 lbs gains with about
7 lbs water and fat, while a Quality-gain steroid can deliver 15 lbs MUSCLE while most of the times decreasing Bodyfat!
Deca and Dbol are so popular due to their availability I guess...
08-01-2004, 12:20 PM #5
08-01-2004, 12:21 PM #6Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
Actually this is as close to the reality as a research can get without involving unethical testing on humans...
Androstenedione is taken because it is a precursor so they would have material to compare it with
(obviously the researchers thought that they would get five divided groups
--> Testosterone , Nandrolone , Precursors, methyltrienolone and DHT with its derivatives; This actually is what you get if you read TEXTBOOKSTUFF as you mentioned it!).
08-01-2004, 12:26 PM #7Originally Posted by kingofmasters
Unethical? If that is the case I would love to be an unethical test subject. I mean, its for the better of man kind, right? I am willing to sacrifice.
08-01-2004, 12:27 PM #8Originally Posted by pietro75
(Still a Deca-only cycle is what most novices at the gym do and still they get about 20-30 lbs of gains!; so one would think adding Test should give even more but that isn't the case in practice).
Also Test and a DHT-derivative is what I advice the most as a first cycle, since that means most benefits (gains, qualitymuscle, muscledefinition and fatloss) with the least sides!
Too bad they only took Human Grade steroids
(or else we would have some Boldenone , Trenbolone , Oxabolone etc.)
in the comparison!.
08-01-2004, 12:29 PM #9Originally Posted by twosocks40
08-01-2004, 12:33 PM #10Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
children with stunted growth or microphallus or other medical conditions! (AIDS, Firevictims, Muscledystrophy patients etc.)
I yet have to see the first real-time study on BodyBuilders
(there are some that compare their bodyvalues to "normal" humans, but this is after years; so not they give them a steroid and see what happens!).
08-01-2004, 12:34 PM #11
Everyday an interesting thread KOM. Keep it up
08-01-2004, 12:42 PM #12Originally Posted by kingofmasters
The Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol 281, No. 1; 93-102, 1997.
This is the only one I could find in 2 minutes, but there were numerous studies conducted within this journal. I assure you, there are many more like this.
Edit: Here are a few more:
Martikainen H, Ruokonen A, Ronnberg L, Vihko R. Short-term effects of testolactone on human testicular steroid production and on the response to human chorionic gonadotropin . Fertil Steril 1985 May;43(5):793-8
Fox M, Minot AS, Liddle GW. Oxandrolone: a potent anabolic steroid of novel chemical configuration. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1962;22:921-924
Matsumoto AM. "Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1990 Jan;70(1):282-7
Tan, RS, Vasudevan D. "Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse ." Fertil Steril 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5
Kadi F, et al. "Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of stength-trained athletes." Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov;31(11):1528-34
Hobbs CJ, et al. "Testosterone administration increases insulin -like growth factor-I levels in normal men." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Sep;77(3):776-9
Masonis AE, McCarthy MP. "Effects of the androgenic /anabolic steroid stanozolol on GABBA receptor function: GABA-stimulated 36Cl-influx and [35S] TBPS binding." J Pharmacol Exp Therap 1996 Oct;279(1):186-93
There are a few more , but they were on things like Ephedrine, thyroid hormones and such. And a ton more that used rats and such......
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-01-2004 at 01:10 PM.
08-01-2004, 12:53 PM #13Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
I said ON NONE-MEDICAL DISEASES and half of your researches are about rats or are in vitro!
08-01-2004, 12:59 PM #14Originally Posted by kingofmasters
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 10-03-2004 at 08:43 PM.
08-01-2004, 01:03 PM #15Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
And they never stack in those researches
(except for Clenbuterol and L-Dopa but they both aren't AS).
In Vitro = In a Test Tube (in latin literally means: in glass)
In Vivo = In a real living Organism
08-01-2004, 01:08 PM #16Originally Posted by kingofmasters
Cough cough, crap.
They could have done an in vitro study instead of this bullsh!t. This is one of the lamest studies I've ever seen. Do you have a link to the original full article?
08-01-2004, 01:11 PM #17Originally Posted by MMC78
Would you please elaborate on your findings instead of just cursing and asking for me to send you a PDF?
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