Seriously Confused!!!!

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 01:01 PM

I'm getting ready for my FIRST cycle in the coming months and have a few things i need clearing up.
I've been fitness training my whole life and weight training just over one year.

I'm 22 yrs
6ft tall
180lbs
10% fat

My question probably has an obvious answer but i can't figure it out.

All the posts in the forum say it's important to run test as the base for any cycle (sounds good, no problems so far)

I've read the example cycles for novices on this site and they all contain test (still no problems)

But when i go to the steroid profiles and look at Test Eth is says
"...we recommend that steroid novices stay away from all testosterone compounds..."

Now i'm really confused!!! One set of advice seems to contradict the other.

My first cycle was going to be as follows:

Dianabol -20mg for first 4 weeks
Deca -200mg first 10 weeks
Sus250-250mg first 10 weeks
Nolvadex -10mg per day during cycle
Clomid-pct

But now i'm unsure if this is suitable.
Is this too much for a first cycle?
Should i be using Sus in my first cycle?

I've heard people say you need to give yourself room to change and adapt.

AS I PLAN TO DO A MAXIMUM OF 2 CYCLES PER YEAR WHERE DO I STAND ON TAKING TEST/SUS? AND AM I OK TO STACK STEROIDS ?

I would be most appreciative if someone could share their experiences with me so i don't make any nasty mistakes.

Thankyou to anyone able to help me.

**nitro_fusion** · 04-28-2005, 01:17 PM

That sounds like a good cycle for later on:

Dianabol -20mg for first 4 weeks
Deca -200mg first 10 weeks
Sus250-250mg first 10 weeks
Nolvadex -10mg per day during cycle
Clomid-pct

But for your first cycle, your body has never had steroids and you could make huge gains using less gear. Just Dianabol and Test e would shock you to grow. Personally I think the novice cycle 1 listed on the main site would be great. I plan to do that one as my first as well.

It is:
Test e 500mg/week (2 shots during the week of 250 each) for 10 weeks
Dianabol 30mg/day (spread throughout the day) for 4 weeks
Nolvadex during the whole cycle and for an aditional 5 weeks
Finish with clomid therapy

Do the cycle you listed as your second.
Maybe someone else can give you some better advice
peace bro

**Swifto** · 04-28-2005, 01:30 PM

As nitro fusion said stick to one compound, that being Test E or Test Cyp. This will mean less frequent injections (2x week) rather than EOD on Sus. Your body has never experienced AS before so injecting 2 compound such as Test/Deca will only complicate things further. Sustanon is also a blend of 4 testosterones, this may also prove a problem.

The example I have written below is a good 1st cycle with correct PCT:

(wk 1-4 Dbol 30mg/ED the choice is yours to jumpstart with dbol, its only an option)
wk 1-12 Test E/Cyp 350-500mg/wk (2x 250mg Mon/Thurs)
wk 1-12 Nolvadex 10mg/ED

PCT

wk 14-16 Clomid 100mg/ED
wk 16-18 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 14-18 Nolvadex 20mf/ED
wk 14-18 Creatine 5-10g/ED (depending on bodyweight)
wk 14-18 Tribulas 3-5g/ED

I hope this helps, good luck

**toc67guru** · 04-28-2005, 01:31 PM

good advice from nitro and bigswiftos.
sus can be overpriced and deca can cause libido problems.try the cycle suggested by nitro or bigswiftos and see how you get on.you may need to add arimidex to help lessen aromatisation from the test a dose of 0.25mg every other day or every day should be enough.

**JMLH** · 04-28-2005, 01:32 PM

A,

Check in the profiles unders Sus and read what it says..your sus has prop in it, which means it will kick in faster than Test Enan...this being your first cycle you are stacking quite a bit, but go for it I prob would have for my first one to, i would not run d-bol for four weeks since your running Sus. Run the d-bol for two weeks. you need to run the sus two weeks longer then your deca . Its a good idea to run twelve weeks anyway. Eat clean and take your protein and you will see some good gains man, good luck!

**Swifto** · 04-28-2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by JMLH

A,

Check in the profiles unders Sus and read what it says..your sus has prop in it, which means it will kick in faster than Test Enan...this being your first cycle you are stacking quite a bit, but go for it I prob would have for my first one to, i would not run d-bol for four weeks since your running Sus. Run the d-bol for two weeks. you need to run the sus two weeks longer then your deca. Its a good idea to run twelve weeks anyway. Eat clean and take your protein and you will see some good gains man, good luck!

Many of the profiles on the main site are out of date, read hooker's profile on Test Enanthate :

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=165040

As i said before, stick with a single ester test such as Enan or Cyp, this is the safest test to take for a 1st time

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 02:16 PM

Thanks for the advice.

If possible i want to avoid using Test Eth. I've heard it gives serious water retention!

Some of my friends run Dbol and Deca together and tell me it's good.
Thing is they haven't done much research and can't explain why the use what they do or why they use the doses that they do!

Also, bigswiftos montioned mixing two compounds isn't advisable for a first cycle. What is meant by compounds? (sorry for the stupid questions, i'm only trying to learn)

Whilst i do want to increase my size, i don't want to look puffy and ballooned!
i'm 180lbs now at 10% fat, i'm aiming for 210 ripped (no fat or water)
Could i use Dbol and Deca for my first cycle or maybe Dbol and Sus?

As i said previously i won't be doing more than 2 courses per year. Will that have any effect on what i should use or the dosage taken?

Thanks again.

**palumbo** · 04-28-2005, 02:20 PM

well if ur worried about getting bloated i wouldnt be taking dbol just my two cents

**BigJames** · 04-28-2005, 02:26 PM

[QUOTE=ant_8u]Also, bigswiftos montioned mixing two compounds isn't advisable for a first cycle. What is meant by compounds? (sorry for the stupid questions, i'm only trying to learn)[\QUOTE]

By "compounds" we mean individual steroids ...Test E is one compound, Dbol is another compound, Deca is another compound. A general rule for a first cycle is to use ONE COMPOUND, i.e. Test E, to see how your body reacts to it.

**JMLH** · 04-28-2005, 02:29 PM

thanks Bigs, forgot about hookers....

JMLH

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 02:36 PM

Ok, so if i use 1 compound at a time, what should it be?

I don't really like the idea of the water retention with Teat Eth.
Can't use Deca due to the dreaded Deca d!ck.
Dbol is too toxic for long periods so i was only using it to kick start my cycle.
Is Deca and Sus ok for my first cycle? (i know its 2 compounds and Sus has 4 tests in it)
It's harder than you think this steroid game is!!!!
Glad i found this sight otherwise i'd be completely f***ed!

**palumbo** · 04-28-2005, 02:41 PM

like everyone said i would just stick with one test compund either test e or prop and use nolvadex and clomid pct

**toc67guru** · 04-28-2005, 02:44 PM

sus is not 4 tests, test is test what it is is a blend of 4 different esters(releasing agents) which allow it to release testosterone within a day or so and is active up for to 28 days.it was designed for replacement therapy for less frequent injections.
go with the test e if you bloat use arimidex and nolvodex to offset estrogen sides.you will not bloat more on test e rather than sus imo.

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 02:56 PM

Everyone is telling me to start with Test Eth (It's ok, i'm starting to get the hint)
I guess Test is the thing to go for.
But one thing i would like to know is, Why is this the steroid to go for first?
What makes this the steroid to start off with?
Does my body react better with it? Is it more of an all rounder? Or is it more mild acting for my body to get used to? (please don't get annoyed at my questions, remember i'm only tryign to learn)

Thanks to everyone out there helping to educate me!!!!!!!! :-)

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-28-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by nitro_fusion

That sounds like a good cycle for later on:

Dianabol -20mg for first 4 weeks
Deca -200mg first 10 weeks
Sus250-250mg first 10 weeks
Nolvadex -10mg per day during cycle
Clomid-pct

But for your first cycle, your body has never had steroids and you could make huge gains using less gear. Just Dianabol and Test e would shock you to grow. Personally I think the novice cycle 1 listed on the main site would be great. I plan to do that one as my first as well.

It is:
Test e 500mg/week (2 shots during the week of 250 each) for 10 weeks
Dianabol 30mg/day (spread throughout the day) for 4 weeks
Nolvadex during the whole cycle and for an aditional 5 weeks
Finish with clomid therapy

Do the cycle you listed as your second.
Maybe someone else can give you some better advice
peace bro

I have to disagree. I don't like that cycle now, nor down the road.

Here is a perfect cycle for your first

Weeks 1-10 Test Enan 500mg (shoot 250mg on Mon. 250mg Thurs.)
Nolva - 10mg ED
Ldex - .25ED
PCT - CLOMID 2 weeks after last test injection

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the advice "buylongterm"
You said you don't like that cycle and never will.
What is it that makes you dislike that cycle?
There must be something somewhere that i've got completely wrong!
It's very similar to the novice cycle at the start of this site.
Do you not like the cycle on this thread because the Test is substituted for Sus?
Or do you just dislike both cycles?
Would you recommend using Sus in my first course or should i stay well clear?

**palumbo** · 04-28-2005, 03:16 PM

i dont know how much more clear we can be he gave u the perfect first time cycle if that isnt what u want to hear i dont understand

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 03:22 PM

His advice is perfectly clear.
He has posted nearly 7,000 threads, so he definately knows his stuff.
All i am asking is why are people giving the advice they are?
My friends are using Dbol and Deca , but when i asked them why they chose to use them or how they decided on the dosage to use they were unable to tell me.
I'm sure with that muck knowledge "buylongterm" is giving me sound advice.
But as i said my friends could give me advice but couldn't back it up.
I believe what i am being told on this forum.
I would just appreciate some background into how people come to there conclusions.
Sorry if i made anyone think i was just dismissing their opinions. i wasn't doing that at all.

**toc67guru** · 04-28-2005, 03:23 PM

keep it simple for the first course.
buylongterm's cycle is good to go:-

Weeks 1-10 Test Enan 500mg (shoot 250mg on Mon. 250mg Thurs.)
Nolva - 10mg ED
Ldex - .25ED
PCT - CLOMID 2 weeks after last test injection

if you want add dbol at 20-30mg/day spread out over the day for 4 weeks.test e is slow to bulid up so the dbol will kickstart the course untim
l test e kicks in.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-28-2005, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by ant_8u

Thanks for the advice "buylongterm"
You said you don't like that cycle and never will.
What is it that makes you dislike that cycle?
There must be something somewhere that i've got completely wrong!
It's very similar to the novice cycle at the start of this site.
Do you not like the cycle on this thread because the Test is substituted for Sus?
Or do you just dislike both cycles?
Would you recommend using Sus in my first course or should i stay well clear?

The reason I don't like it is this. I personally think one needs to run 25/30mg of DBOL to see decent results. I don't think Sust should be used for a first cycle simply because It needs to be shot EOD. Because of the different esters, I truly believe one is a lot better off running a type of Test that fits ones needs.. Meaning if someone wants to cut, use PROP for example. People have to remember, TEST is TEST. Sust to me is over rated, but again, this is just my opinion. Now, my first cycle I only did 250mg of Enan and got good results, but I did have to up the dose. So, for me the rule of thumb should be 400/500mg of Test for a first cycle. Also, I don't think 200mg of DECA is enough as well. If someone where going to run a cycle with all those compounds I'd run it like this...

Week 1-4 DBOL 30mg
Week 1-12 TEST E. 500mg
Week 1-11 Deca 400mg
Nolva - 10mg ED
Ldex - .25mg ED
PCT - CLOMID

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-28-2005, 03:37 PM

Your first cycle is basically a learning experience.
The main reason it's best to just run test for a first cycle is because you want to see how your body reacts to it. Now, say you were using DECA , and DBOL , and you ran into issues, you will have no idea what is causing your problems. Keep it simple. Remember: NO STERIOD in the world will get you big unless your diet is perfect. You better be ready to eat 4000+ clean calories. Make sure you eat close to 2g of protein per body weight and don't fully rely on protein shakes. People who are disappointed with their cycles, usually had a bad diet.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-28-2005, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by ant_8u

His advice is perfectly clear.
He has posted nearly 7,000 threads, so he definately knows his stuff.
All i am asking is why are people giving the advice they are?
My friends are using Dbol and Deca , but when i asked them why they chose to use them or how they decided on the dosage to use they were unable to tell me.
I'm sure with that muck knowledge "buylongterm" is giving me sound advice.
But as i said my friends could give me advice but couldn't back it up.
I believe what i am being told on this forum.
I would just appreciate some background into how people come to there conclusions.
Sorry if i made anyone think i was just dismissing their opinions. i wasn't doing that at all.

I can't speak for your friends, but i can bet if one were to look at there cycles, they'd be way off. You have done the best thing you can. You did NOT listen to your friends off the bat. You are here doing your research and I applaud you for it. Make your own decisions based on what you've learned. Steroids are a very serious matter, and I"m glad your not taking this lightly. Keep learning, and don't rush into anything.

Let me know what I can do bro!

Welcome to AR

BLT

**ant_8u** · 04-28-2005, 03:41 PM

Thankyou "buylongterm" for giving the background and reasons behind your advice.
I do truly appreciate all advice that is given to me.
No doubt it will save me from getting into all sorts of trouble in the future.
As i said before, anyone can give advice, but it's knowledgable advice i'm after, and i'm 100% sure you've provided me with that.
Thanks again "buylongterm"

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-28-2005, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ant_8u

Thankyou "buylongterm" for giving the background and reasons behind your advice.
I do truly appreciate all advice that is given to me.
No doubt it will save me from getting into all sorts of trouble in the future.
As i said before, anyone can give advice, but it's knowledgable advice i'm after, and i'm 100% sure you've provided me with that.
Thanks again "buylongterm"

Anytime bro...I only speak from experience and countless hours of research. I have done just about as many steroids as one could think of. HGH, DBOL , TEST, DECA , WINNY, ANAVAR , TREN , boy, just to name a few...

There are a ton of bro's on this site will tons of knowledge as well. Just make sure you sift through the good posts and make a responsible well educated decision. We are here if you need us...

BLT