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  1. #1
    topgun1983's Avatar
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    best mass building stack?

    any ideas for best mass building stack?

  2. #2
    stocky121's Avatar
    stocky121 is offline VET~ Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    d/boll test deca

  3. #3
    BE_STRONG is offline Senior Member
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    dbol 50mg/day wks 1-6
    test 600mg/wk 1-20
    deca 500mg/wk 1-20
    tren E 500mg/wk 1-20
    winny 75mg/day wks 17-23

  4. #4
    hosam4ever's Avatar
    hosam4ever is offline Anabolic Member
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    dbol or anadrol with test any kind of it with deca

  5. #5
    Benches505's Avatar
    Benches505 is offline 75% HGH 25% Testosterone
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    Quote Originally Posted by BE_STRONG
    dbol 50mg/day wks 1-6
    test 600mg/wk 1-20
    deca 500mg/wk 1-20
    tren E 500mg/wk 1-20
    winny 75mg/day wks 17-23
    That is a good bit of tren E ! If he can take the sides I'm sure it would make him grow

  6. #6
    Alpha-Male's Avatar
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    anadrol /prop/deca

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benches505
    That is a good bit of tren E ! If he can take the sides I'm sure it would make him grow
    Same here..I'd drop the tren e to around 300mg/week, shorten the length of the tren E to about 14-16 weeks and ditch the deca ....
    Last edited by almostgone; 06-25-2005 at 04:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BE_STRONG
    dbol 50mg/day wks 1-6
    test 600mg/wk 1-20
    deca 500mg/wk 1-20
    tren E 500mg/wk 1-20
    winny 75mg/day wks 17-23

    I have to say, that looks outright FRIGHTENING! But that could be good.

    Test 500 - 750mg/wk 1 - 18 (front load at 1gm first week)
    Tren 300 - 500mg/wk 1 - 10
    EQ 500 - 700mg/wk 1 - 18 (front load at 1gm first week)
    DBol 20 - 40mg/day 1 - 4
    Winny 75mg 12 - 18


    20mg Nolvadex per day
    .5mg Arimidex per day
    B6
    RU486 on hand for progesterone
    Dostinex

    Running the Deca AND Tren at the same time might be risky unless you've done it before. Use short esters to figure out your dosing unless you already know from previous experience.

  9. #9
    scotttiger54's Avatar
    scotttiger54 is offline Senior Member
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    i'm going to be hitting up a good ole' test enth and tren ace pretty soon for some good lean mass

  10. #10
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Why do people do enanthate with Acetate? If you're doing ED, do ED...?

  11. #11
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Unless of course, the prop hurts... I found when I was doing prop that mixing it with EQ made it less painful. I wonder, does Acetate add to prop main, act neutrally, or have that positive EQ affect... Hmmmmm

  12. #12
    Moosepellet's Avatar
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    Sustanon , Deca , D-bol. Gained 35lbs on my first

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stocky121
    d/boll test deca
    this the perfect stack nicely done and for more water retentioned mass add more test and thats perect

  14. #14
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Okay, to the DBol Test Deca statement... how about this instead...

    Diana
    Test
    NPP

    But still, NPP (Nandralone) is a highly anabolic compound, yes, but not more so per se than EQ, which is at least not a progestenic hazard. If you're going to risk prog sides, use Tren , it's WAY better than Deca, although when considering Nandralone compouds the PP version is preferred. But still, EQ is GREAT in the RBC department, which is great for recovery, everywhere. By little back aches returned (albeit to a lesser degree) after discontinuing the EQ. But at least EQ's side affects are easily managed and include hunger. lol.

  15. #15
    BE_STRONG is offline Senior Member
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    running almost same cycle right now, except
    test 750mg/wk
    EQ 600mg/wk in place of deca

    we'll see how it works boys


    Quote Originally Posted by BE_STRONG
    dbol 50mg/day wks 1-6
    test 600mg/wk 1-20
    deca 500mg/wk 1-20
    tren E 500mg/wk 1-20
    winny 75mg/day wks 17-23

  16. #16
    RoNNy THe BuLL's Avatar
    RoNNy THe BuLL is offline Anabolic Member
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    Food.

  17. #17
    jucinator is offline Associate Member
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    Week 1-20 600 mgs deca week 1-22 750 mgs ultra test week 1-4 d-bol week 12-16 40mg winnitab i per day. HCG at 2000 iu evey 5th week for 2 injects. plus letro 1.25 ed and noval and clomid for pct. you should grow!!!! last year I put on 33 lbs with this stack. (solid Muscle)

  18. #18
    The Baron's Avatar
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    Hard to go wrong with the good ol' dbol /test/deca stack. Winny at the end only helps to "clean up" a bit, IMHO, unless you are doing very high (and slightly risky) dosages. The dbol will give you some initial water gains which of course you will lose quickly, but the fluid retention helps your joints a bit and there is a strength increase that will improve your training sessions. Deca works great if you have a very high caloric surplus. Run the test a bit higher than the deca, and continue it a week or two beyond cessation of deca use. The deca should be run a minimum of 10 weeks, and 12 weeks is much better even for relative newbies. Advanced users will run this 16 weeks up to as long as 24 weeks. Hcg is needed for longer cycles, but can be dispensed with for a 12 weeker or so.

    Tren is not necessary with test/deca, and can lead to progestin-type gyno. I say if you are gonna run tren, run tren and test and no deca, and if you're gonna run deca, run deca and test, no tren. It is heartbreaking to realize 6 weeks into a cycle that you have to drop one or the other. If your goal is pure bulking, and you must drop one or the other, drop the tren. The deca is a more powerful bulking drug. Tren is better known for it's hardening-up effects and for modest but high quality gains. A tren/test cycle would probably be an excellent idea after a heavy bulking cycle and after cutting down to 10 or 12% BF.

    The test/deca stack is probably the most popular stack for mass building, and has a proven track record. This, at moderate (500/400) doses is an excellent choice for a second or third cycle, after an initial test-only cycle or two. Advanced users will want to go as high as 600mg on the deca and often to over a gram per week of the test. At anything over 400mg/week of deca, progestin type gyno becomes a concern, and appropriate countermeasures must be on hand such as dostinex or B6

  19. #19
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Baron! How does Dostinex curtail progestin gyno? I thought RU486 did that... And I couldn't agree more with picking one or the other, but I didn't realize that Tren was a runner up to Deca in gaining mass..? And finally, why the preference for the Decanoate Ester over NPP?

  20. #20
    BE_STRONG is offline Senior Member
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    prog sides is exactly why i choose EQ over deca . besides EQ works very well for me. i use it in every cycle. it is hard to beat dbol /test/deca i have done that a few times, just dont really like deca except for the joint lubrication.
    Last edited by BE_STRONG; 06-27-2005 at 12:09 PM.

  21. #21
    XXXTicTocXXX is offline New Member
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    What is a good stack for a first timer.The lad at work says I can just use D_BOL for up to 10 weeks.I did not wish to correct him as he says he uses it himself,but all the info on site says its a pretty bad idea.I told him i would get gyno but couldn't hold a educational conversation as he built like a mini rino and ime just stepping in to the zone.

  22. #22
    Alpha-Male's Avatar
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    just cuz a dood's swole, doesnt mean he knows his shit...i would not suggest running dbol for 10 weeks...4-6weeks max and do some bloodwork if you can, as well as milk thistle/rla/SAMe, something for liver...

    why doesnt anyone else like DROL???!!! dood, if you havent tried it, throw it in instead of dbol, check it out...for me at least, it tops the list in mass builders...

    letro can combat progestenic sides according to Hook's profiles...mentions it to use with Tren , but not sure if those sides are similar to the Deca ones, cuz i remember he mentioned using the RU pill...eh, hafta check on it...

    DROL i tells ya...DROL

    peace

  23. #23
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Does ANYONE believe that Deca will give you greater NET gains than EQ or Tren ?

  24. #24
    The Baron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Baron! How does Dostinex curtail progestin gyno? I thought RU486 did that... And I couldn't agree more with picking one or the other, but I didn't realize that Tren was a runner up to Deca in gaining mass..? And finally, why the preference for the Decanoate Ester over NPP?
    I am not at all familiar with the actual mechanism by which it helps with prog type gyno. But there are several countermeasures that are popular. The cabergoline (dostinex) of course, viamin B6, and oh there is another that was popular for a while but the name slips me right now. Anyway all those are reported to help. I myself have no experience with the Ru486. Ah I just remembered... bromocriptine. Winny has been reported to help with progestin gyno but some will cheerfully call BS on those claims. Intuitively, it would seem like any DHT derivative would help with any type of gyno, but I haven't seen any iron clad results.

    Deca seems to better utilize a caloric surplus than tren , for building mass. YMMV of course, but this seems to be the general true-ism. Possibly someone who can tolerate tren sides better and who can use a higher dosage of tren would see deca-like results. However, if I had tren and test on hand, I would probably rather use them than to save the tren and buy deca. Total mass gains might be less on the tren but tren gains keep quite well. With just a modest caloric surplus, the tren would give you a harder look, especially if you were lean going into the cycle. So iin many ways, the tren can be preferable to the deca... but not, generally, for the sole purpose of bulking.

    I have never used NPP but in general I personally prefer long esters when given a choice, at least through the bulk of the cycle, simply for convenience in dosing. Some exceptions exist... I like tren ace because I can quickly correct my dose if sides get out of hand. Generally I just like the long esters so I can shoot E3D or E4D.

  25. #25
    Alpha-Male's Avatar
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    i know this isnt a popular answer to that question, but it really depends on your diet and PCT, as i'm sure you're aware...i havent been able to find any research on Tren or EQ, but have seen lots, of course, on deca , test, and var...i would have to put deca ahead of EQ, but since ive never run Tren, and dont know too much about it, my ENeducated guess would still be in favor of deca...JMO

  26. #26
    stocky121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXXTicTocXXX
    What is a good stack for a first timer.The lad at work says I can just use D_BOL for up to 10 weeks.I did not wish to correct him as he says he uses it himself,but all the info on site says its a pretty bad idea.I told him i would get gyno but couldn't hold a educational conversation as he built like a mini rino and ime just stepping in to the zone.

    i take it your from the uk bro by the way you speek

    don't listen to that tool d/boll only for 10 week's all i can say is wow

    don't correct him bro don't even speek to that joke he will be dead soon enough

  27. #27
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Okay, so all said and done the opinion of this threads readers/posters is that Deca will give you more LBM gains AFTER all is said and done ... (cycle completed, water gone, PCT completed, 12 weeks later... still more LBM?) I could see that as being true for it's comparison to EQ but a slight margin, after all, the anabolic value for EQ and Deca are similar... and the estrogen supposedly might aid in anabolism. But I am under the impression that Tren is still a more powerful "builder" if you did a side by side comparison of equal length cycles, completed them, and then looked at the results 6 months after starting. If my thoughts on this are wrong, PLEASE correct me before I get near my next cycle... Or maybe I should do some convaluted shit like this...

    Test-P @ 75mg 1 - 15 (ED)
    NPP @ 50mg 1 - 6 (EOD)
    DBol @ 20mg 1 - 6 (ED)
    Tren-A @ 60mg 7 - 14 (ED)

    That would seem to be a pretty hefty bulking cycle, no? Lots of jabs, but only the Prop is reported to often cause pain during injection, and that's normally if it's by itself, no?

  28. #28
    pitbull27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron
    I have never used NPP but in general I personally prefer long esters when given a choice, at least through the bulk of the cycle, simply for convenience in dosing. Some exceptions exist... I like tren ace because I can quickly correct my dose if sides get out of hand. Generally I just like the long esters so I can shoot E3D or E4D.
    Hey Baron,
    Correct me if I'm wrong....but can't NPP be shot every 3-4 days? I was under the impression that if you are running a long estered test and shooting every 3.5 days, and wanted to better manage any nandralone sides in your cycle, that NPP would be the way to go instead of Deca because it can be shot every 3-4 days (and is quickly out of your system if you need to stop due to sides). I am pretty sure I read that in hookers NPP profile.

  29. #29
    Alpha-Male's Avatar
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    pitbull--yes

    Truman--yeah, on paper, that's a mean cycle, but i'm from the "more isnt better" camp, and i just dont see the need for all those compounds...

  30. #30
    Darkness's Avatar
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    Some of those cycles will run more than $1000!!!

  31. #31
    GridIronDevil is offline Associate Member
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    man, lol guys trowin down whole grams of testa week, 24 week long cycles stacked with 4 other compunds, i dunno i personally belive that with the perfect diet and training methods, you can get excellent gains from shorter mild cycles, i just dont see the need for that many drugs at such high doeses for that long of periods of time, and actually i dont belive that somone running that extreme of cycles is in any better a posistion to talk then somone running d-bol only cycles, but hey thats just my 2cc's

  32. #32
    Alpha-Male's Avatar
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    Amen!!

  33. #33
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    needbigguns is offline Once Human and Inferior - Now Beast-Like and Superior
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    Im into week 5 of Dbol Deca Sust...
    Gained 16lbs
    Still got 6 weeks left then PCT
    Started at 500mg Sust per week and 400mg Deca but upped it to 750mg Sust 600mg Deca,,,Strengths gone through the roof !
    Im a natural hard gainer...im loving this stack allready
    Should start to see the weight gains from the Sus and Deca from this week onwards, the 16lbs is from the Dbol i recon...Things can only get better !
    Not used any nova as i havent needed to, eating eggs like a mofo...farting like iv got a rat up my arse, my sex drive is second to non, great pumps...its all good

  34. #34
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well, you can say all you want about stacking. It's dizzying to look at before you have good reason to mix and match them. But, when you think about the anticatabolic affects of Diana and the Anabolic affect of Nandrolone , coupled with test... it's just supposed to be pure ****ing hypertrophe. I'm thinking of being mellow with the Diana experiment, and of course, dropping the oral towards the end and using the hardening compound to get shredded. I am imagining that the Tren and Diana could be harsh, which is why I'm really going with conservative dosages... and the NPP could be also, but again, mild dosage, and not running the Nandrolone at the same time as the Tren, wich again could be a nightmarish episode if someone did... but, this should amount to some excellent gains, with overall discomfort kept to a minimum at any one time. However, throughout the cycle there would be a multitude of actions hopefully each taking advantage of the body's virginity to each action and thus getting good (and sustained) rates of change without ever having spiked risks...

    Thoughts?

  35. #35
    The Baron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Okay, so all said and done the opinion of this threads readers/posters is that Deca will give you more LBM gains AFTER all is said and done ... (cycle completed, water gone, PCT completed, 12 weeks later... still more LBM?) I could see that as being true for it's comparison to EQ but a slight margin, after all, the anabolic value for EQ and Deca are similar... and the estrogen supposedly might aid in anabolism. But I am under the impression that Tren is still a more powerful "builder" if you did a side by side comparison of equal length cycles, completed them, and then looked at the results 6 months after starting. If my thoughts on this are wrong, PLEASE correct me before I get near my next cycle... Or maybe I should do some convaluted shit like this...

    Test-P @ 75mg 1 - 15 (ED)
    NPP @ 50mg 1 - 6 (EOD)
    DBol @ 20mg 1 - 6 (ED)
    Tren-A @ 60mg 7 - 14 (ED)

    That would seem to be a pretty hefty bulking cycle, no? Lots of jabs, but only the Prop is reported to often cause pain during injection, and that's normally if it's by itself, no?
    Actually, you seem to be onto something. I could see that cycle working very well indeed, though it would still not be a pure bulking cycle... more like initially bulking and then hardening up with the tren phase. That still will depend a lot on diet, though... a bulking diet will turn any cycle into a bulking cycle. Just a matter of degree. But back to your hypothetical cycle... maybe extending that a bit... running the NPP for 8 weeks, taking a few days off the NPP before starting the tren? And for a long-ish cycle, I would probably go with a long ester of test, at least until the last 3 weeks or so, switching then to prop. Maybe also running prop to help jumpstart the cycle, the first three weeks. I would probably up the dbol a hair but that's me... I love dbol. I will cheerfully do 50mg/ED for 5 or 6 weeks. Makes me happy!

  36. #36
    donmega's Avatar
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    Whatever it ends up being just make sure you got the Test E in there.

    Thats the mass building super drug

    Anadrol is the bizzy but its hard to keep the gains.

    Heres a coo little site that seems pretty acurate you might like as well.

    http://www.domesticgear.com/steroidranking.htm
    Last edited by donmega; 06-28-2005 at 02:59 AM.

  37. #37
    tylerdurden is offline Junior Member
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    well if its your first cycle then pretty much any test combined with dbol will get u massive,im not a fan of deca at all and tren in my opinion is unneccesary 4u as the test/dbol combo will make any first timer grow.the biggest advice i can give u is to eat MASSIVE.plenty of meat,potatoes,eggs...screw your tuna,keep that for cutting.use a good weight gainer with plenty of good carbs,such as cytogainer by cytomax.train hard,lay off cardio and eat huge and u cant fail to bulk up very satifactorally(although i dont think thats a real word,lol)

  38. #38
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well, I've done Test-Enanthate ... and definitely prefer less frequent jabs, but once you are shooting ED, there's no sense trying to run long esters if you've got room to use Prop in the 3cc's of space. :-) Baron, GOOD idea waiting a few days inbetween the NPP and the Tren , forgot about that, if not, you'd have a spiked period of Progesterone risks maybe... Something like giving it a week to clear. My idea was to run the NPP and the DBol in a manner that allows the anti catabolic affect to be inccurred DURING the anabolic affect of the NPP... so when the Diana ends, I'm okay with discontinuing the NPP... or running it until a week before I switch over to the tren. I'm a ***** I guess, so I'm not looking to go crazy on the Diana, I want to keep water to a minimum. Is 30mg of Diana still concervative?

    Gotta say, THANKS for the endorsement... particularly like getting it from you!

    Actually tho, since the NPP is about an E3D protocol, yeah, I could go with enanthate... I would front load it this time.. Would you frontload NPP? I need to find out where I can get to hookers profiles and what the PW is... But yeah, I'll need to look at the half life's of those closely.

    Would Arimidex keep the water gains to a minimum? I don't hold much water on Test, I was doing up to 700mg per week during my last cycle, didn't gain a pound of water. I wouldn't expect that to be possible on DBol, but, with good acillaries, maybe something similar. I hate the idea of gaining a bunch of bloat. I don't want to be known as an AAS user...

    Thoughts?

  39. #39
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Maybe I'll revert to Prop once I am just 3 weeks out of cycle end to get in to PCT quicker...

  40. #40
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by donmega
    Whatever it ends up being just make sure you got the Test E in there.

    Thats the mass building super drug

    Anadrol is the bizzy but its hard to keep the gains.

    Heres a coo little site that seems pretty acurate you might like as well.

    http://www.domesticgear.com/steroidranking.htm


    Dude, those guys just copy and paste from everyone else... and reformat a bit.

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