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  1. #1
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Critique my PCT please

    Ok, I'm in PCT as of yesterday. Here's my list/schedule:

    1-2 Clomid 100mgs ed, split AM/PM (or until sex drive is fully back)
    1-3 armidex .25mgs ed
    1-4 tongkat 2000mgs ed (or until sex drive is fully back)
    r3igf-1 for 1 more week
    1-4 Thyroid Energy by now nutrition, 4 caps ed split
    1-8 Hydroxy Cut, 9 caps 3X ed
    2-6 100MCG/ML CLENBUTEROL -1MG/ML KETOTIFEN ed

    Coming off, in order:

    12 weeks test e only - 500mgs/week
    next
    6 weeks tbol only (trial/test cycle) - 40-50mgs ed
    next (most recent)
    4 weeks test prop - 100mgs ed
    3 weeks r3igf-1 - 60mcgs ed
    2-4 HCG @ 500ius eod
    t3 @ a avg of 50mcgs ed for the past 6 weeks (last dose 2 days ago, Mon)

    Should I add nolva now or in 2 weeks? I've never had gyno issues but I do get bloat with excessive estrogen. I also have trib but should I add it with tongkat?
    Last edited by Seattle Junk; 10-12-2005 at 12:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    I stop adex when in pct... I would add nolva though at 20mg and one week longer than clomid. Why divide clomid doses? I take them all at night before beddy bye. If you get a chance at the tail end of pct to hit igf again that would be nice.

  3. #3
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I stop adex when in pct... I would add nolva though at 20mg and one week longer than clomid. Why divide clomid doses? I take them all at night before beddy bye. If you get a chance at the tail end of pct to hit igf again that would be nice.
    Thanks Meso. So it's better to take all of your clomid before bed? Why? Thanks.

  4. #4
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    This is the Thyroid Energy supp I'm taking for thyroid PCT. Blown_SC or anybody else, is this sufficient or should I be taking raw glandulars as well?

    http://www.nowfoods.com/?action=item...&item_id=13101

    Thyroid Energy - Nutrition Info

    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
    Vitamin B-6 (from Pyndoxine HCI) 2 mg 100%
    Folate (as Folic Acid) 400 mcg 100%
    Vitamin B-12 (as Methylcobalamin) 60 mcg 1000%
    Iodine (from Kelp and Irish Moss) 225 mcg 150%
    Zinc (from L-Optizinc® - Zinc L-Methionine Complex) 25 mg 170%
    Selenium (from L-Selenomethionine) (Yeast-Free) 50 mcg 70%
    Copper (from Copper Amino Acid Chelate) 1 mg 50%
    L-Tyrosine (Free-Form) 1.0 g (1,000 mg) †
    Irish Moss (Chondius Crispus) (Thallus) 200 mg †
    Guggul (Commiphora Mukul) (Resinous Sap) 75 mg †
    Standardized Extract (min. 10% Guggulsterones)
    Kelp (laminaria digitate) (Whole Plant) 60 mg †
    Ashwagandha (Witharia Sommifera) (Root) 50 mg †
    Standardized Extract (min. 4.5% Withandides)
    Concentrace® Trace Minerals 5 mg †
    * Percent Daily Values are based on 2,000 calorie diet.
    † Daily Value not established.

    Unhealthy glandular function can lead to a host of problems including infection, poor metabolism, mood imbalances and more. NOW Thyroid Energy™ has been carefully engineered by our team of Ph.D.’s and certified nutritionists to naturally support healthy thyroid and glandular activity. Fueled by a full gram of L-Tyrosine (a direct precursor to the production of thyroid hormones), our blend of B Vitamins, trace minerals, zinc, selenium and hormone balancing herbal extracts make this one of the smartest thyroid support supplements available.*
    Last edited by Seattle Junk; 10-12-2005 at 12:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    Thanks Meso. So it's better to take all of your clomid before bed? Why? Thanks.
    I seem to have less of the emotional challenges... Seemingly...

  6. #6
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    This is the Thyroid Energy supp I'm taking for thyroid PCT. Blown_SC or anybody else, is this sufficient or should I be taking raw glandulars as well?
    I would take glandulars and coleus forskolli with that supplement. Now you can bounce back without spending $$ just by carb loading, they say the thyroid is resealiant... I would not take the chance.

  7. #7
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    This is the Thyroid Energy supp I'm taking for thyroid PCT. Blown_SC or anybody else, is this sufficient or should I be taking raw glandulars as well?
    That's a pretty decent supplement there bud. There is never really a 'need' for anything, and by the looks of things, that should be enough to help you along on the road to recovery. I'd continue to monitor your temp. after you're off T3 just to see how you react... ...

  8. #8
    mranak is offline Associate Member
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    Damn, why you making PCT so complicated with all them different things? Pick Nolva or Clomid and run either for PCT.

  9. #9
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    Damn, why you making PCT so complicated with all them different things? Pick Nolva or Clomid and run either for PCT.
    I guess I'm nervous about coming off? I know I'll lose a certain amount of what I got on juice but as long as I keep most of it, I'm cool. I'm not going to panic and go right back on. I need to clean out for 60-90 days. Probably the latter.....

  10. #10
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    That's a pretty decent supplement there bud. There is never really a 'need' for anything, and by the looks of things, that should be enough to help you along on the road to recovery. I'd continue to monitor your temp. after you're off T3 just to see how you react... ...
    That's a good point Blown. So lets say my morn temp stays low for a few weeks, what should I do? I will be very careful on what I eat over the next few week as well. Strawberries, almonds, broc, vegs, fruit, lean protein (chick, tuna, eggs only). I'll do cardio 40 mins min 5 days each week. Any other suggestions?

  11. #11
    mranak is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    I guess I'm nervous about coming off? I know I'll lose a certain amount of what I got on juice but as long as I keep most of it, I'm cool. I'm not going to panic and go right back on. I need to clean out for 60-90 days. Probably the latter.....
    Forget all of the anti-catabolic stuff you've heard about clen , unless you happen to be a cow.

    If x pounds of your gains are water, then you are going to loose them.

    If you want to maintain as much muscle as possible, then eat lots of calories with lots of protein and do a proper Nolva or Clen PCT. It looks like you have a lot of stuff in there to try and cut.....I suggest that you worry about maintaining the muscle mass right now and worry about cutting later on. PCT isn't a good time to cut.

  12. #12
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    PCT isn't a good time to cut.
    Words to live by...

  13. #13
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    Forget all of the anti-catabolic stuff you've heard about clen , unless you happen to be a cow.

    If x pounds of your gains are water, then you are going to loose them.

    If you want to maintain as much muscle as possible, then eat lots of calories with lots of protein and do a proper Nolva or Clen PCT. It looks like you have a lot of stuff in there to try and cut.....I suggest that you worry about maintaining the muscle mass right now and worry about cutting later on. PCT isn't a good time to cut.

    I agree with you. I'm not trying to cut as my protein and cals will be up still. I'm just worried about thyroid PCT. I know I shouldn't be in HPTA PCT at the same time but that's where I am right now..... I will eat 200-250mgs of protein ed, probably on the lower end for maintainence. Lots of complex carbs.

  14. #14
    mranak is offline Associate Member
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    There is no such thing as thyroid PCT. If your T3 is low for a few days then it isn't a big deal anyway; that'll actually help you retain muscle as T3 eats muscle like nothing else. You certainly do NOT want to spike your T3 during PCT if you want to hold onto your muscle gains.

  15. #15
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    That's a good point Blown. So lets say my morn temp stays low for a few weeks, what should I do? I will be very careful on what I eat over the next few week as well. Strawberries, almonds, broc, vegs, fruit, lean protein (chick, tuna, eggs only). I'll do cardio 40 mins min 5 days each week. Any other suggestions?
    Not really anything else... just let it runs it's course.

    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    There is no such thing as thyroid PCT. If your T3 is low for a few days then it isn't a big deal anyway; that'll actually help you retain muscle as T3 eats muscle like nothing else. You certainly do NOT want to spike your T3 during PCT if you want to hold onto your muscle gains.
    I suggest people end their t3 usage weeks prior to the end of their cycle so their thyroid's recover before their hpta. There is such a thing as thyroid PCT - simply helps it recover and produce what it would normally without being suppressed.

  16. #16
    mranak is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    I suggest people end their t3 usage weeks prior to the end of their cycle so their thyroid's recover before their hpta. There is such a thing as thyroid PCT - simply helps it recover and produce what it would normally without being suppressed.
    If you are worried about thyroid recovery, then just taper it off prior to ending the cycle. That said, I have been unable to find any evidence the T3 must be tapered.

  17. #17
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    If you are worried about thyroid recovery, then just taper it off prior to ending the cycle. That said, I have been unable to find any evidence the T3 must be tapered.
    He did not say taper nor did he say you must pct the thyroid. Even though I have used both the afformentioned methods with success. He simply suggested stopping T3 weeks before cesation of anabolics, he also stated there is such a thing as thyroid pct.

  18. #18
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by mranak
    If you are worried about thyroid recovery, then just taper it off prior to ending the cycle. That said, I have been unable to find any evidence the T3 must be tapered.
    I don't see the point in tapering down - if there is even as much as a 'replacement' dosage, I don't see how the thyroid would recover any faster whatsoever. Also, I too have not found any info. supporting tapering (except tapering up, to see how your BBT reacts)...

  19. #19
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
    I would take glandulars and coleus forskolli with that supplement. Now you can bounce back without spending $$ just by carb loading, they say the thyroid is resealiant... I would not take the chance.

    What do you think would be the best time to carb load? Oatmeal?

  20. #20
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    Not really anything else... just let it runs it's course.

    I suggest people end their t3 usage weeks prior to the end of their cycle so their thyroid's recover before their hpta. There is such a thing as thyroid PCT - simply helps it recover and produce what it would normally without being suppressed.
    Thanks Blown. I read your stuff on that other board, steriodology. You're well respected bro.

    I still have a week left of r3igf-1 so that should help with my PCT. Right?

    Going upstairs now to swallow 100mcgs of Clomid per meso's night time dose. Bout to get emotional up in here.....
    Last edited by Seattle Junk; 10-12-2005 at 11:10 PM.

  21. #21
    Mesomorphyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    What do you think would be the best time to carb load? Oatmeal?
    Time? I mean carbload for 3 days... I would hit the high glycemic first day and then good complex carbs next two...

  22. #22
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    I got maybe 1 more shot left at 60mcgs of MR r3IGF-1. Great stuff. I ended prop 100mgs & t3 50mcgs ed last Monday, a week ago. So I have been using IGF-1 PWO into my PCT with clomid, armidex, tongkat, trib & thyroid energy. The balls are full and the sex drive is good so everything seems to be going right.

    About the t3 PCT. I received no rebound effect in my observance. I actually feel leaner than last week. I've lost about 5 lbs (198lbs) but it seems like more water. Belt buckle to the last notch now. I piss all the time now. I was on t3 for 60 days straight. So I would say Blown is correct about thyroid recovery so far. I'm eating very clean and on schedule now. 10 egg whites AM, tuna/spinach, chicken, tuna/spinach. I'm doing 40 mins cardio 5X+/week.

    It seems my strength has gotten even better over the last week. I was doing dumbell rows at 110lbs today. It's nice having some igf-1 into PCT.

    I've been swallowing 70mgs of AR clomid before bed per meso. When I was doing 105mgs (3mls), I had a lot of pressure in my head and my eyes were acting weird. 70mgs does some weird stuff once in awhile to my eyes but no biggie. No more pressure in the head. I hope 70mgs ed is good enough? Any suggestions?
    Last edited by Seattle Junk; 10-18-2005 at 01:08 AM.

  23. #23
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Good to hear you're doing so well bud, seems as though everything is in order. I would guess that your thyroid may even be producing more than it has before your exog. t3 admin... what was your temp. while on, and what is it now? I'm curious...

  24. #24
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    Good to hear you're doing so well bud, seems as though everything is in order. I would guess that your thyroid may even be producing more than it has before your exog. t3 admin... what was your temp. while on, and what is it now? I'm curious...
    I was pretty much 98.6 - 7 while on t3. Now I'm 98.6. It's never gone below that so far. No energy loss or lethargic feeling. I would assume the biggest rebound effect would be the days following discontinuation of exog. t3? I'm taking tons of supps though. My hunger has decreased as expected but I still get 200grams+ of protein. I have 1 more igf-1 shot left. That will be missed.

  25. #25
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
    I was pretty much 98.6 - 7 while on t3. Now I'm 98.6. It's never gone below that so far. No energy loss or lethargic feeling. I would assume the biggest rebound effect would be the days following discontinuation of exog. t3? I'm taking tons of supps though. My hunger has decreased as expected but I still get 200grams+ of protein. I have 1 more igf-1 shot left. That will be missed.
    Sounds good man, Thyroid Energy must be some good stuff. I would seriously suggest upping how much protein you're ingesting though, ie. 300+g/day...

  26. #26
    shadow123 is offline Associate Member
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    u only need clomid/nolva pct

    and hcg if your nuts have got smaller but often not needed unless on large long cycles

  27. #27
    Seattle Junk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_SC
    Sounds good man, Thyroid Energy must be some good stuff. I would seriously suggest upping how much protein you're ingesting though, ie. 300+g/day...
    Yeah, you're right about upping the protein. I just have to force it down...It was so much easier when on...hehe....I guess I could drink another shake or 2...

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