Advice for beginners/ Scary story

[G-PIG]

Im in no way an expert, but i do have three cycles under my belt, great gains, no side effects as of yet,

i'd always read on the board, have anti-e's on hand or dont start your cycle, well i ignored this advice because in my previous two cycles, never had a hint of gyno, i figured i wasnt suceptable,

im running 500mg/week enanthate , 30mg dbol first three weeks (im in week 5) and i have run higher doses (750mg sust) so i figured i was safe, well about late sat, early sun, my nipples got a little itchy, by monday/tuesday they hurt like a bitch, then the mad scramble around town to find nolva, all my suppliers were out, i was getting scared, u try have the thought in your head that your starting to grow tits, i almost went to the doctor to beg for nolva, well i found them tonight, and drum roll please my desperate ass paid 100 cdn for 50 -20mg nolvas i guess i learnt my lesson

[dane26]

good info. i have a buddy who just went through the same prob. he used to taper his sus and has run 1000mg/wk on numerous occasions. no he's doing it at 500mg/wl without a taper. he figured since he's used much higher dosages, he wouldn't need any nolv. just like you said, he started gettign sore nips. also like you, he paid a ton for his nolvs. gotta learn somehow i guess

[TNT]

Originally posted by G-PIG
. . . then the mad scramble around town to find nolva, all my suppliers were out, i was getting scared, u try have the thought in your head that your starting to grow tits, i almost went to the doctor to beg for nolva, well i found them tonight, and drum roll please my desperate ass paid 100 cdn for 50 -20mg nolvas i guess i learnt my lesson

Seriously, G-PIG, great story - not because it's funny (ah, hell, you know it is), but because a lot of us can identify with you, and there's a lesson to be learned: Be prepared!

There are a few bits of "good news-bad news" in your tale. The first is that you have definitely learned an important lesson. On the other hand, when reality sets in, I hope everyone knows that gyno is not an immediate thing - you don't suddenly turn into a D-cup overnight (one can almost imagine such a scene in a horror flick - looking down as your t-shirt expands and crying out, "Ohhhhhh, shit!").

As for what you paid, here's some reassurance. I assume you live in Canada, where 60 tabs of Nolvadex 20 mg. goes for about $50 CDN in most drug stores (that's the equivalent of about $33.50 USD). But before you think you got ripped off worse, it might help to find out that here in the States, Nolvadex 20 mg. goes for about $200 USD (or $300 CDN) in U.S. drug stores for the same 60 tabs.

See, sometimes it pays to be a Canadian, even if you use, um, alternative sources.

I'm glad things worked out for you, bro. And again, thanks for sharing that - I'm sure a lot of us read the story and felt the way every guy in a movie theater feels when he see someone on screen get kicked in the nuts.

[Black Stang]

I wonder how a Docter would react to that? It would be nice if they would help, then I could get it on my perscription card! LOL

On a serious note, I'm glad you found it Bro. This should help us all to remember to be prepared.

[iron4life79]

i have never run a cycle without some kind of anti'e on hand and now i know i never will...........thanks bro, and im sorry you had to experience that.


peace bb79

[PaPaPumP]

Good story, and I'm REALLY glad you found some!

BTW...some guy's trying to yank me @ $3 per 20mg.


So.....$3 X 50 = $150 American

I told him to blow me and lower his price or piss off.

[PaPaPumP]

He said he'd get back to me.... What a .

[Black Stang]

sorry to get off the subject, but I have to know something. PPP where do you get all those cool icons for your post? I've seen them on differant post, but I can't find them on mine.

[PaPaPumP]

Shoot me a PM.

[Psycoswole]

Glad everything turned out alright bro

[TNT]

Originally posted by Black Stang
I wonder how a Docter would react to that? It would be nice if they would help, then I could get it on my perscription card!

Most doctors, of course, would not prescribe AS for BB in the first place. But the notion is interesting . . .

Namely, what is a patient "self-prescribed" AS and began to develop symptoms of gyno? Gyno could be described as a medical disorder, so I imagine that at that point, a doctor would prescribe Nolva to treat the, um, disorder.

The question is whether gyno is listed as an "indication" (reason to use it) in its official product literature. If so, and if a patient actually "presented" (in doctor-speak) with gyno, then that would certainly justify prescribing it.

The question, then, is whether the doctor would believe the patient's claims of itchy, painful nipples, or whether the doctor would take a wait-and-see attitude - in which case, how much, um, growth would there have to be before the doctor confirms the diagnosis and writes the prescription? ("Hey, doc, I'm now a D-cup. Will you write the damn script already???")

Point of trivia: All medical conditions, disorders, and diseases have what's called an ICD-9 code. ICD stands for International Classification of Diseases, and is a master list of everything used to code diagnoses for treatment and insurance purposes. In case anyone ever needs it, yes, there is an ICD-9 code for gynecomastia - it's 611.1.

Anyway, when all things are considered, I would think that a physician would prescribe Nolva if clinically indicated, which raises an interesting possibility. Perhaps the solution (at least in Canada, where the stuff is cheaper) is to start a cycle with everything else, then see the doctor when the pain starts. It would sure beat having to locate a source at the last moment.

(No, that's really not my recommendation. Kids, don't try this at home.)

[flexshack]

damn!! i think i'm gonna have nightmares!! lol. on a serious note, this is a very important lesson learned, unfortunately the hard way. i'll bump this for all the newbies to see or the foolish. and no g-pig, i am not calling you foolish or a newbie.
flex

[6pak2go]

Damn TNT
You also have an ICD-9 Code book?
Is there anything your not prepared for?
How about an HMO case manager?

[Mr. Nobody]

Very important thread for all to read.
2 things you learned;
1: the older you get and more cycles you had done, the more susceptible you become to gyno, its because of an increase of aromatize enzyme production among other things.
2: different tests with differing quality have differing side effects.

[killerdice]

Anadrol gave me a small amount of gyno when I was much younger, got some knots under the tits they went away with some nolva,,, scared the shit out of me thought..

[iron4life79]

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody
Very important thread for all to read.
2 things you learned;
1: the older you get and more cycles you had done, the more susceptible you become to gyno, its because of an increase of aromatize enzyme production among other things.
2: different tests with differing quality have differing side effects.

to quote ig..................WORD.


peace bb79

[TNT]

Originally posted by 6pak2go
Damn TNT
You also have an ICD-9 Code book?
Is there anything your not prepared for?
How about an HMO case manager?

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but there is actually something I don't have: an ICD-9 code book. (Well, a few things . . . I also don't have the clap, but that's another story.)

However, the ICD-9 is available on the web. The full list in one file is at http://cedr.lbl.gov/icd9.html, and there is a surfable list from Duke University at http://www.mcis.duke.edu/standards/termcode/icd9 that you can search by alpha or code number. There's also a code number search at http://www.e-mds.com/icd9, but you can't do an alpha search there.

BTW, a few days ago when I looked up the ICD-9 code for gyno, I had trouble finding it. Much as I'm a spelling freak, I entered "gynOcomastia" (since we just refer to it as gyno. The actual spelling is "gynEcomastia." I ended up finding it by just entering the "comastia" part. Granted, knowing that plus fifty cents will get you half a cup of coffee, but I thought I'd toss it in as a piece of trivia.

[rocklizard]

Man, I must be really fortunate. I went to my physician and spoke to him very candidly about my use of AS. Of course he tried to curb my use but I told him it was my sport and I just really needed his help with the Nolvadex , HCG , and Clomid. To my satisfaction he wrote me a prescription for all three.

Now my insurance company provided me 60 tabs Nolvadex for $5 copay, and 20,000IU of HCG for $5 copay, but they balked on the Clomid for some reason!? I paid $120 for the Clomid.

If you have a good rapport with your private physician I'll suggest sitting down with him and appealing to him as his patient. They are there to help and should do so. Try it, you'll undercut the high dollar black market prices you are paying. Good luck.

[Mike]

Good post G-Pig, good reading for those who think they are invincible...

[XBiker]

Originally posted by rocklizard
Man, I must be really fortunate. I went to my physician and spoke to him very candidly about my use of AS. Of course he tried to curb my use but I told him it was my sport and I just really needed his help with the Nolvadex , HCG , and Clomid. To my satisfaction he wrote me a prescription for all three.

Now my insurance company provided me 60 tabs Nolvadex for $5 copay, and 20,000IU of HCG for $5 copay, but they balked on the Clomid for some reason!? I paid $120 for the Clomid.

If you have a good rapport with your private physician I'll suggest sitting down with him and appealing to him as his patient. They are there to help and should do so. Try it, you'll undercut the high dollar black market prices you are paying. Good luck.

Sounds like you are more of the exception than the rule. Most people warn to NOT tell your doctor of AAS use unless your health is on the line...

Perhaps you have a cool doctor that you can trust. However, once things are put in to your medical file, it is next to impossible to get it removed.

[rocklizard]

Medical files are protected by "The Privacy Act of 1974." God help a physician who compromises the "hypocratic oath," and divulges information without proper release authorization by a patient illegally. I am also fortunate that my physician monitors my blood hormone levels for me.

The relative term would be "Medical Malpractice Lawsuit."

[karlmone]

I started to get painful, and sore nipples from some Androstene about a year after I had the gyno surgery. I told the surgeon and he gave me nolvadex . He is "the plastic surgeon" in the bodybuilding scene, but I would think that most doctors would also give some anti estrogens. Obviously it is smarter to say that you are taking andro instead of what you are really taking to avoid possible hassles.

[rocklizard]

After your doctor has done the bloodwork, and you are showing 1400-1600 vs. the normal range of 200-800, I don't think you'll get by with telling him, "Oh yeah doctor I'm only using andro!?"

A good Endocrinologist worth his salt will laugh you out of the office. You'd never achieve those levels with andro bro and they know it.