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  1. #1
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Will winstrol shut me down?

    hi bros, hope all are readng this in good health

    for my 1st cycle i am planning on doing a winstrol only cycle. however, i know that it cannot in anyway aromatise, but will winny shut me down?

    i definitly plan doing clomid for pct (though i am quite concerned about side effects of clomid, eyesight damage etc ...)

    any input would be great !

    also, i am aware that another major side effect of winny (apart from liver values - overrated imo, but still possible) is the lipid profile damage (definitly a great concern). would nolva added with the clomid for PCT help with getting lipids back in check? i heard also supplementing with niacin during the cycle will help cholesterol levels...

    ur help would be most appreciated, i start my cycle in a few months, so i am not rushing anything yet

    take care

    regards


    xrazee

  2. #2
    asymmetrical1's Avatar
    asymmetrical1 is offline Respected Member
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    winstrol can shut you down, needs to be ran with test. Run a small dosage of nolv, 10mg....and clomid is a good idea

  3. #3
    Shud's Avatar
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    winstrol only isnt the best cycle to be runing........what r your current stats and your goal??

  4. #4
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    i know a winstrol only cycle is not recommened for seeing heavy gains, but i am strongly decided for it. i am 22 195lbs training 3 years almost, and i am at 12% bf, i want to harden up, lose some fat, and gain a little muscle. my diet and training will be perfect. i have read a lot on winny only cycles, and its pleasing effects are why i am choosing it. this will be my first cycle, and thats one of the main reasons i am choosing to run winny, to run something very light and to get all round pleasent results, a large majority of athletes take winny also. i know its low androgenic , so of course i know i wont be making crazy gains on it like i would be on test.

    i plan on doing a 8 week cycle of 100mgEOD x3 a week, injections.

    i am definitly going to use clomid post cycle, however should i run nolva during the cycle or with the clomid during PCT? i am not sure why i would run nolva (apart from helping lipid values) because winny isnt aromatisable to any degree and i am afraid it will impact the effectvieness of the winny, taking an anti-E whilst on cycle.

    thanks for ur much appreciated input bros!

  5. #5
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    run test.

    winny cycles dont even make good woosie cyles

  6. #6
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Thumbs down

    honestly, i dont want the flabby pregnant gut with test e or sust, and all the bloat and looking like the michellen guy...............


    that probably is the only reason i am running winny alone. otherwise i would run sust in the cycle, because if winny odes shut me down, i may as well make it worthwhile at get huge.

  7. #7
    nevaenuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrazee
    honestly, i dont want the flabby pregnant gut with test e or sust, and all the bloat and looking like the michellen guy...............


    that probably is the only reason i am running winny alone. otherwise i would run sust in the cycle, because if winny odes shut me down, i may as well make it worthwhile at get huge.

    Test doesnt give you a gut, and there are things you can take to stop the bloating.

  8. #8
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevaenuf
    Test doesnt give you a gut, and there are things you can take to stop the bloating.
    the only thing i know of to reduce the bloat and moonface is nolva ED during the cycle, which is going to decrease the gains i make (adding in an anti-E)......

  9. #9
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrazee
    the only thing i know of to reduce the bloat and moonface is nolva ED during the cycle, which is going to decrease the gains i make (adding in an anti-E)......
    Nolva will not hinder your gains but a better option is l-dex throughout your cycle.......

  10. #10
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    Wow....

    Where is everyone getting the Nolva reduces gains at? That theory is a good 2yrs old now but its still being told.

    It doenst hinder gains. You dont have to get bloated or a gut on test.

    BTW, interesting thought, even if Nolva did hinder gains, youd still gain a hell of alot more than a winstrol cycle.

  11. #11
    ichabodcrane's Avatar
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    I agree that nolva doesn't inhibit gains per say, but I do think you will not get some of the estrogen related gains seen when you run something to decrease/inhibit estrogen levels. Some think that nolva may inhibit IGF mediated growth, but I am still debating this. You will make good gains even if you do run nolva. I also believe that certain SERM's do act on the estrogen receptors in the liver and help provide a favorable lipid profile. But I have not tested this (ie. by getting a lipid profile while using nolva/clomid on cycle vs. not using nolva/clomid). It also seems the aromatase inhibitors such as arimidex etc. may have a negative effect on lipid profiles, but may be dose dependent, simply because they are designed to inhibit estrogen completely. Some people are not bothered by excess est levels, and do not choose to run anti-E's. But if you start to notice est related bloat etc. and you are not comfortable w/it or it gives you side effects (HTN, edema etc) than I would run something to decrease est. levels. Also niacin is great for incresing HDL levels, but is also highly metabolized in the liver. So be aware and don't take other drugs/herbs which can add to this effect. Fish oil, and the omega (n-) 3 fatty acids are good for lipids.

  12. #12
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    bump for my original question....will winny only shut me down. also what PCT should I take after the cycle....


    i would really appreciate any input from u bros


    regards
    xrazee

  13. #13
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrazee
    bump for my original question....will winny only shut me down. also what PCT should I take after the cycle....


    i would really appreciate any input from u bros


    regards
    xrazee
    Yes Winny will shut you down............. Use Clomid/Nolva to get back up

    Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 2 - 21 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 22 - 28 20mg Nolva

  14. #14
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan
    Yes Winny will shut you down............. Use Clomid/Nolva to get back up

    Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 2 - 21 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
    Day 22 - 28 20mg Nolva



    would i need nolva tho? since nolva is a sitre specific (bitch tits) anti-e , and winstrol does not aromatise, would i need nolva at all? or would it still be needed ot help with natural test production (i thought clomid was sufficient for this)

    any input would be highly appreciated, many thanks

  15. #15
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    The reason I use nolva and clomid both of these are SERMS wich make your body think it's producing excess estrogen that will then make your body start making it's natural production of test that will then help recover HPTA functions.

    Nolva is not just used to help with gyno.......... it has way more benifits.
    Last edited by TheMudMan; 12-30-2003 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #16
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan
    The reason I use nolva and clomid both of these are SERMS wich make your body think it's producing excess estrogen that will then make your body start making it's natural production of test that will then help recover HPTA functions.

    Nolva is not just used to help with gyno.......... it has way more benifits.

    thanks TMM, i read an article recently (seems to be going around a lot lately) about nolvas effectiveness on suppresed hpta.

    however, i also heard it would be best to taper down nolva dosages, due to the fact it causes an estro rebound (not seen with clomid) after discontinuation.

  17. #17
    TheMudMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrazee
    thanks TMM, i read an article recently (seems to be going around a lot lately) about nolvas effectiveness on suppresed hpta.

    however, i also heard it would be best to taper down nolva dosages, due to the fact it causes an estro rebound (not seen with clomid) after discontinuation.
    I have never read that Nolva cause a rebound effect but have read that it does the oposite. Can you post that study?

    I never tapered my doses of Nolva and haven't seen any problems.

  18. #18
    xrazee is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMudMan
    I have never read that Nolva cause a rebound effect but have read that it does the oposite. Can you post that study?

    I never tapered my doses of Nolva and haven't seen any problems.


    TMM, i am really sorry for my late reply my comp has been messed up the past few days.

    i read about nolvas rebound from a post by a user on another board >

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"The antiestrogen Nolvadex works against this by blocking the es-trogen receptors of the effected body tissue, thereby inhibiting a bonding of estrogens and receptor. It is, however, important to understand that Nolvadex does not prevent the aromatization but only acts as an estrogen antagonist. This means that it does not prevent testosterone and its synthetic derivatives (steroids ) from converting into estrogens but only fights with them in a sort of "competition" for the estrogen receptors. This characteristic has the disadvantage that after the discontinuance of Nolvadex a "rebound effect" can occur which means that the suddenly freed estrogen receptors are now able to absorb the estrogen present in the blood."©2003 Anabolic Review


    Hope this helps. A lot of bro's are getting away from nolva because of the re-bound.....i'm one of them.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


    thats what he posted. it does make sense, and is probably true. however, i do not think it should be called a rebound effect, rather it should be seen as coming off nolva too early.

    In my case, due to winstrol being non aromastisable, i do not think this is a problem. So I have decided to use the nolva along with clomid. What dosages should I use these for and how? I have read many "versions" of this, however I want to decide on one. Would it be different because I am running such a light cycle and winny does not aromatise? because basically I am doing PCT to restart natural test production.....


    I have also been thinking of adding in proviron (25-50mg ed). it is an non anabolic androgen, and because winstrol is low androgenic I would think proviron would be a good addition to it, HOWEVER i am not sure at all if natural testosterone will be supressed during the cycle, i think the proviron will help with that, adding androgens .



    many many thanks for ur input as always!
    take care

    xrazee

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